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Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks.

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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#861 » by humblebum » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:43 pm

jfs1000d wrote:Celtics are fine. I don't get all the handwringing.

Rondo just isn't good enough to have this much hand wringing. He isn't a once in a generation talent. He isn't a top 10 NBA player, he isn't some kind of dominant player. He is a very good point guard. That's the easiest position to replace on a team.

Avery Johnson was a PG on a title team. We gotta relax with this. Eddie House was our best PG down the stretch in 2008. Let's not over estimate his impact on the game. I like him. We would have traded him long ago if it wasn't for the knee injury. Stuff happens. He stopped playing hard here. Does anyone deny that?

We got some pieces, some payroll flexibility, and Wright is a guy who I think we will give more than 20 minutes a night and see if that PER scales. Rondo was good at finding Zeller, but it's not like we don't have anyone who can pass on this team.

Rondo's loss will be felt in organization and tempo and execution in the halfcourt.


Agreed.

The thing was that even with Rondo the offense would breakdown and instead of having the ball in the hands of Turner, Smart, or Bradley it was in Rajon's hands. Which more than likely was going to end up being a bad, low percentage shot from Rondo or a turnover. Very rarely was he turning these situations into anything remotely positive.

Turner might look ugly doing it, but he'll likely get up something with a chance of going in on most possessions (that don't end in a turnover, lol) when the play breaks down. Smart and Bradley are both better shooters and free throw shooters as well.

So while the reasons for the offensive struggles may differ, at the end of the day you're about where you were offensively before. Better in transition because you'll more consistently follow coaching to push the ball. Worse in the halfcourt. Better when the play breaks down by virtue of subtracting Rondo's negative shot creation ability. Better spacing. And hopefully more points of turnovers with better defense in the backcourt.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#862 » by LarryBirdsFingr » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:46 pm

You are becoming one of my favorite posters now humble, very well said
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Marcus Smart is an underrated shooter
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#863 » by exculpatory » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:02 pm

LarryBirdsFingr wrote:You are becoming one of my favorite posters now humble, very well said


He has always been one of my favorite posters.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#864 » by humblebum » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:47 pm

Feeling the Christmas cheer on this board. LMAO *emoji*
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#865 » by exculpatory » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:48 pm

humblebum wrote:Feeling the Christmas cheer on this board. LMAO *emoji*


What is "emoji"?
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#866 » by gocelts » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:30 pm

Edug27 wrote:
gocelts wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
Many bad moves? Which moves are these? I wouldn't call extending Bradley a bad move. He had little trade value and if we let him walk, then you'd complain just as loud.



Stop baiting me into this. I'm looking for some positives here. "Danny Defenders" always pop up immediately after someone disagrees with any of Danny's moves. I'm not playing anymore. Our record and roster will speak for itself.Yes he's made excellent moves and I've commended them. But I've also recognized the bad moves to.


Baiting? Danny defenders? I was just asking a question .. I was asking what those bad moves were. Way too defensive here.


Well, I had posted what I thought was a nice contribution DEFENDING the good points of the trade. Believe it or not....you can still be a knowledgable NBA fan AND a diehard Cs fan AND not agree with every move Danny makes. I'm not saying you agree or disagree with this, but most on this board think it's impossible. I'd like like to post my opinion without having to bring up; trading Perk in the middle of a stellar season, drafting Melo, extending Bradley ( that NO I would not complain about him walking as you accused me of) and lets not forget signing Terry (how convenient everyone has forgotten) and now selling Rondo for 50cents on the dollar (his swan song) every time I post. Yes Danny won a chip and made plenty of nice moves too, but he's had his share of head scratchers that coincidently have taken place AFTER we've won the chip...like his narcissism has gotten the best of him. He's still a decent GM and I wouldn't want anyone else drafting for me...but he's not perfect and longer we get away from 08 all while stinking it up...he is teetering on becoming expendable. A few more head scratchers and you'll know what I mean...

As far as the trade goes, it's over. Let's focus on the good, and hope our young players and coach outplay this and prove me wrong.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#867 » by return2glory » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:57 am

This trade wasn't about Nelson and Crowder or getting better. It was about getting something for Rondo because at the end of the day or at the end of the season in this case, Rondo wasn't going to get resigned.

So we got a decent big in Wright and a 2016 1st round pick that can be used on a college player or the pick can be leveraged to move up in the draft or even be package for a bigger trade.

The trade was also about giving Marcus Smart more playing time. How Smart does in the next year or two and what we get from that 1st round pick will determine how good or bad this trade was. Time will tell.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#868 » by Afam » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:17 am

LarryBirdsFingr wrote:
BannersOnly wrote:
Edug27 wrote:
Many bad moves? Which moves are these? I wouldn't call extending Bradley a bad move. He had little trade value and if we let him walk, then you'd complain just as loud.


My idea of rebuilding and building a contending team for years to come does not include undersized two guards with a nonexistent all-around offensive game. Everyone brags about Bradley's supposed "great" defense yet I still don't see it. Very good? Yes. Great? No. You think a 6-3 shooting guard(and I still say he's 6-2 at best) is checking a 6-7 stud shooting guard like Jimmy Butler in a 7 game series? I want SIZE at every position on my basketball team. I can't stand undersized players unless they are absolutely GREAT.............bad signing by Danny. You can do better than Avery effin Bradley I'm sorry.


He's going to be traded Banners, relax.


Any Info on that, or is just your Opinion ?
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#869 » by GuyClinch » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:40 am

I'd like like to post my opinion without having to bring up; trading Perk in the middle of a stellar season, drafting Melo, extending Bradley ( that NO I would not complain about him walking as you accused me of) and lets not forget signing Terry (how convenient everyone has forgotten) and now selling Rondo for 50cents on the dollar (his swan song) every time I post


Green = Perkins x 10,000. Perkins is a dreadful NBA player.. We got full value for Rondo - his value just isn't very high because he was never that good. PG's are a dime a dozen in the NBA and a PG who plays poor D and can't shoot has little value.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#870 » by exculpatory » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:05 pm

GuyClinch wrote:
I'd like like to post my opinion without having to bring up; trading Perk in the middle of a stellar season, drafting Melo, extending Bradley ( that NO I would not complain about him walking as you accused me of) and lets not forget signing Terry (how convenient everyone has forgotten) and now selling Rondo for 50cents on the dollar (his swan song) every time I post


Green = Perkins x 10,000. Perkins is a dreadful NBA player.. We got full value for Rondo - his value just isn't very high because he was never that good. PG's are a dime a dozen in the NBA and a PG who plays poor D and can't shoot has little value.


Calling a spade a spade.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#871 » by humblebum » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:57 pm

exculpatory wrote:
humblebum wrote:Feeling the Christmas cheer on this board. LMAO *emoji*


What is "emoji"?


LOL, those stupid smiley face things. :lol:
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#872 » by ryaningf » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:54 pm

Only 2 games post-Rondo, so impressions are still forming, but here's my takeaway:

1. Better synergy. Synergy is hard to define, but let's just say that it's chemistry that creates energy. I feel like the Cs have had good chemistry all season, but still went on weird energy lulls from time to time. Not going to point the finger at Rajon for that, but just say that sometimes the team came out flat as a group and/or couldn't maintain high energy 48 minutes. Not saying they've turned that corner (they haven't) but what I've seen suggests they're going to be a little more consistent in that regard. Nothing earth-shattering, but an uptick nonetheless.

2. Why better synergy? Rondo is a star and he's a vet and he's knows what he wants when he wants it and when you're playing with a bunch of undistinguished players (mostly young guys but a few vets too) I think the effect sometimes was getting his guys to play scared, to think too much, and to generally remove them from the moment. In crunch time this manifested as guys standing around watching Rondo and Rondo watching them back and trying to find shots for guys who had quit moving and obviously that won't work. Vets are going to cause young guys to lose confidence because that's the nature of the beast but when it's Kobe or MJ or some other isolation alpha dog scorer than you can get by "watching" them (because they are literally playing with themselves) and sometimes that tough love brings out something in the young guy, inspires them to buckle down and get better. But with Rondo, who could take over games in every respect except isolation scoring, "watching" him was death because he was trying to play "with you", so watching him kills everything, not only for player confidence and development, but for the winning the game. Rondo needed guys on his level playing with him and too often this team's collection of youth and vets just weren't on the same level.

3. The upshot of that is that Rondo did not inspire his teammate, outside of Zeller and Bradley. Now, Rondo's the purest PG in the game and people took his inability to inspire his teammates as some kind of blight on his leadership, but this isn't necessarily all Rondo's fault, it was more the make up of his team and where everyone is in their development. Rondo's going to have no trouble inspiring his older more accomplished vet teammates in Dallas. What frightened his teammates in Boston will excite his teammates in Dallas--same guy, same personality, different results.

4. The guys remaining are all on the same level and that kind of evenness means each guy has the opportunity to inspire his teammates thru hard work, toughness, and desire. Nobody will feel out of their element or fall into "watching" instead of "playing".

5. A high school analogy: everyone has a clique and in their clique they feel the most comfortable, feel able to be who they are to the fullest....but put them in some other clique, maybe some school trip or something, and they will retreat into their shell and/or be someone else. And so, on this team, Rondo was the cool senior guy and he was hanging with a bunch of freshman nerds and even though everyone was nice and friendly and tried their hardest the freshman just couldn't be themselves until Rondo left the room.

6. So Rondo's left the room and I expect several guys to be more comfortable, to really stretch out their legs and grow. At the same time, I think we'll still suck but suck in a way that's fosters more development and inner confidence.

7. All that said, if Danny doesn't make this trade and we're looking at adding Josh Smith for nothing and playing him at center and going space and pace on steroids, I think we're a lot closer (in a linear sense) to #18 than we are now. We've chosen the long road and lotto balls and as we found out 2005-2007 that can be rewarding in its own way, but only if Danny makes the right moves with all the assets he's collected. Moving Rondo created more flexibility, created a vacuum for assets to grow, created more at bats and chances to find transcendent players, but ultimately Danny has got to hit 3 more homeruns when before he only needed 2.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#873 » by exculpatory » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:39 pm

Interesting (and as usual very well written) take, Ryan.

I do agree with parts of your preliminary impressions.

But as Pete wrote above: "We got full value for Rondo - his value just isn't very high because he was never that good. PG's are a dime a dozen in the NBA and a PG who plays poor D and can't shoot has little value."

He was certainly a vet who commanded respect and he certainly had some magical PO series, but at the end of the day, he was NOT a star - especially during the regular season and most especially post ACL.

His loss will NOT set the rebuild back. And adding an 8 inch taller head case who also cannot shoot would have been a catastrophe. Competent play at the point will surface soon enough (Smart may even become a star), and Danny will add 2 additional stars soon enough if he properly uses the multitudinous assets he has collected.

All that said, I think we CAN agree that he put Rondo in a place where he can play to his strengths (at least in the short term until Dirk soon fades away) and his profound offensive flaws can be masked. It will be interesting to see how he blends with the Mavs other central cog, Monte who likes the ball in his hands and is not a pure shooter.

I wish him well and hope that he once again has success.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#874 » by sam_I_am » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:09 am

exculpatory wrote:Interesting (and as usual very well written) take, Ryan.

I do agree with parts of your preliminary impressions.

But as Pete wrote above: "We got full value for Rondo - his value just isn't very high because he was never that good. PG's are a dime a dozen in the NBA and a PG who plays poor D and can't shoot has little value."

He was certainly a vet who commanded respect and he certainly had some magical PO series, but at the end of the day, he was NOT a star - especially during the regular season and most especially post ACL.

His loss will NOT set the rebuild back. And adding an 8 inch taller head case who also cannot shoot would have been a catastrophe. Competent play at the point will surface soon enough (Smart may even become a star), and Danny will add 2 additional stars soon enough if he properly uses the multitudinous assets he has collected.

All that said, I think we CAN agree that he put Rondo in a place where he can play to his strengths (at least in the short term until Dirk soon fades away) and his profound offensive flaws can be masked. It will be interesting to see how he blends with the Mavs other central cog, Monte who likes the ball in his hands and is not a pure shooter.

I wish him well and hope that he once again has success.


Ex we got full value for Rondo because he lost a step due to injury and is a 1/2 season rental right now who intends to seek max dollars this off season.

I disagree with you and Pete saying he was never that good.
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#875 » by exculpatory » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:16 am

sam_I_am wrote:
exculpatory wrote:Interesting (and as usual very well written) take, Ryan.

I do agree with parts of your preliminary impressions.

But as Pete wrote above: "We got full value for Rondo - his value just isn't very high because he was never that good. PG's are a dime a dozen in the NBA and a PG who plays poor D and can't shoot has little value."

He was certainly a vet who commanded respect and he certainly had some magical PO series, but at the end of the day, he was NOT a star - especially during the regular season and most especially post ACL.

His loss will NOT set the rebuild back. And adding an 8 inch taller head case who also cannot shoot would have been a catastrophe. Competent play at the point will surface soon enough (Smart may even become a star), and Danny will add 2 additional stars soon enough if he properly uses the multitudinous assets he has collected.

All that said, I think we CAN agree that he put Rondo in a place where he can play to his strengths (at least in the short term until Dirk soon fades away) and his profound offensive flaws can be masked. It will be interesting to see how he blends with the Mavs other central cog, Monte who likes the ball in his hands and is not a pure shooter.

I wish him well and hope that he once again has success.


Ex we got full value for Rondo because he lost a step due to injury and is a 1/2 season rental right now who intends to seek max dollars this off season.

I disagree with you and Pete saying he was never that good.


Fair enough, Sam.

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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#876 » by Andrew McCeltic » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:29 am

LarryBirdsFingr wrote:A little bit of everything, I reported almost a year ago that they wanted to lock bradley up to secure an asset, and wouldn't trade him until he got his new contract so it is of substantial monetary value before thinking about moving him. As far as I know they aren't actively shopping him


Shouldn't stop us from speculating about his trade value!

Bradley for Waiters and Wallace for the Cavs' TPE?


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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#877 » by Andrew McCeltic » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:31 am

Bradley for Scola and the Pacers' pick?


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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#878 » by Kids Are Alright » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:34 am

GuyClinch wrote:
I'd like like to post my opinion without having to bring up; trading Perk in the middle of a stellar season, drafting Melo, extending Bradley ( that NO I would not complain about him walking as you accused me of) and lets not forget signing Terry (how convenient everyone has forgotten) and now selling Rondo for 50cents on the dollar (his swan song) every time I post


Green = Perkins x 10,000. Perkins is a dreadful NBA player.. We got full value for Rondo - his value just isn't very high because he was never that good. PG's are a dime a dozen in the NBA and a PG who plays poor D and can't shoot has little value.


Totally agree with Pete on this. Perk was one of the kids in my sig but his value was playing off the big three as a non-scoring, slow big, with a stare that was a walking T.

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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#879 » by brackdan70 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:34 am

andy582 wrote:
LarryBirdsFingr wrote:A little bit of everything, I reported almost a year ago that they wanted to lock bradley up to secure an asset, and wouldn't trade him until he got his new contract so it is of substantial monetary value before thinking about moving him. As far as I know they aren't actively shopping him


Shouldn't stop us from speculating about his trade value!

Bradley for Waiters and Wallace for the Cavs' TPE?


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Do the Cavs have a TPE that big?
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Re: Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks. 

Post#880 » by Andrew McCeltic » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:35 am

New Orleans, Phoenix, Utah could all use him..


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