Pistons WAIVE Josh Smith

[MrBigShot]

Josh Smith for sure. His on the court performance has just been abysmal.

Iverson didn't really pan out, but I never felt like he was jacking up shots he had no business taking or making bone-headed plays time and time again. And most importantly, I didn't feel like he was making the team significantly worse like Josh did. Rather, we really missed Chauncey's leadership and the team chemistry declined. No coincidence that the Nuggets who were a perennial 1st round exit team with Melo managed to make the WCF that year.

[The Penguin]

"Too damn hot for a Penguin to be walking around" Take it easy mate, that's a terrible thing to say.


Anyway just wondering, do we now have a roster spot available? Can anybody see us bringing someone in if so? PF depth seems to be pretty thin.

Ha

I'm fine. Just tired of us being a laughing stock and guys thinking they don't need to be pros as soon as we hand them massive contracts. Luckily our other "mistakes" haven't gone on to bright things elsewhere.

[fekz]

Who was worse as a Piston, Smith or Iverson?

Smith. At least we knew iverson was washed up when he arrived

[The Penguin]

Josh Smith for sure. His on the court performance has just been abysmal.

Iverson didn't really pan out, but I never felt like he was jacking up shots he had no business taking or making bone-headed plays time and time again. And most importantly, I didn't feel like he was making the team significantly worse like Josh did. Rather, we really missed Chauncey's leadership and the team chemistry declined. No coincidence that the Nuggets who were a perennial 1st round exit team with Melo managed to make the WCF that year.

You nailed it. Also doesn't help that Iverson was pretty well used up by the time we got him. Our chemistry was wrecked and our roster didn't fit. Sheed knew it was his last year and Rip went into shutdown/pouting mode while Stuckey wasn't ready/capable of handling his new responsibility.


Josh should have still been in his prime when we signed him. He just did not grasp the responsibility he would be entering into with the contract or just didn't care about it and wanted to get paid. The young guys looked at him as the leader since he was the team's highest paid player by far and he basically had the attitude "Welp, the coach is clueless playing me at SF, I'm just going to chuck it." You can see the other player's body language whenever Smith did a bonehead play, shoulders slumped and heads went down while he basically had the look of "don't worry guys, I'll get the next one".

Looking at the moves they are completely different. Iverson was brought in with the hope of squeezing one last run out of our championship core, everyone knew there would be massive changes after the season. Smith was brought in to be the catalyst for the young Pistons playoff run. His failures on the court and his attitude of "It's not my fault" were far more damaging than anything Iverson did.

[Kilo]

A tweet I read seemed to indicate that whatever Josh Smith makes in his contract next season would come off our cap - is that true?

Vincent Ellis retweeted
Eric Pincus ‏@EricPincus 10h10 hours ago

What's interesting about Detroit's move - if Smith does get paid a sizable deal in FA next summer - set off may really reduce cap hit

So if he gets a 2 yr $14M contract - a seven million a year player, does that mean our cap hit is thus $14M not the $28M, and with the stretch provision it would be 2.8M cap hit over the next five years?

[The Penguin]

A tweet I read seemed to indicate that whatever Josh Smith makes in his contract next season would come off our cap - is that true?

Vincent Ellis retweeted
Eric Pincus ‏@EricPincus 10h10 hours ago

What's interesting about Detroit's move - if Smith does get paid a sizable deal in FA next summer - set off may really reduce cap hit

So if he gets a 2 yr $14M contract - a seven million a year player, does that mean our cap hit is thus $14M not the $28M, and with the stretch provision it would be 2.8M cap hit over the next five years?

I posted this in the other thread, but it's probably more applicable here.

We do get a slight offset, per the CBA:

"If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers), the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money they still owe the player (and lower their team payroll) by the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team—it does not even have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and a pro-rated share of the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead)."

[Kilo]

^So if the vets minimum is $1M and he signs for $7M, we get half the difference to off-set, in this example $3M? So the $5.3M cap hit would be $2.3M next season, to gain another $3M under the cap? So by cutting Smith we could gain $11M in cap space this offseason?

And it would be money Smith wouldn't get from us either. But since it's only half the difference, the incentive is for Smith to still look to get his biggest money deal possible from his new team. If it was dollar for dollar his incentive would be to sign for the vet minimum with his new team since he wouldn't be getting any new money. But if he signs for $7m next season, he gets his new money + his Detroit money less half his new contract. So if he signs for $7M he still makes $4M more next season. If he wanted to stick it to Detroit and sign the vets minimum he gets the full Detroit money but only the vet minimum from his new team so would be leaving $3M on the table just to spite the Pistons. That's not gonna happen.

[ImHeisenberg]

Smith is going to sign for the vet's minimum. Why wouldn't he? It doesn't impact his earnings.

I couldn't care less about where this cancer ends up. I'm just glad he's no longer a Piston.

[The Penguin]

^So if the vets minimum is $1M and he signs for $7M, we get half the difference to off-set, in this example $3M? So the $5.3M cap hit would be $2.3M next season, to gain another $3M under the cap? So by cutting Smith we could gain $11M in cap space this offseason?

And it would be money Smith wouldn't get from us either. But since it's only half the difference, the incentive is for Smith to still look to get his biggest money deal possible from his new team. If it was dollar for dollar his incentive would be to sign for the vet minimum with his new team since he wouldn't be getting any new money. But if he signs for $7m next season, he gets his new money + his Detroit money less half his new contract. So if he signs for $7M he still makes $4M more next season. If he wanted to stick it to Detroit and sign the vets minimum he gets the full Detroit money but only the vet minimum from his new team so would be leaving $3M on the table just to spite the Pistons. That's not gonna happen.

From Coon's CBA FAQ:

66. How do released players apply to team salary? What is set-off?

Guaranteed salary must be paid even if the player is released, and continues to be included in team salary after the player is waived.1 For example, if a player is waived with $10 million in guaranteed base salary remaining on his contract, then that $10 million will be included in team salary. If a player is waived part-way through a season, then the portion of team salary that is charged to the cap for that season reflects either the guarantee or the salary that was actually paid, whichever is greater. For example, if a player has a $6 million salary with $3 million guaranteed and is waived 1/3 through the season, then $3 million (reflecting the 50% that is guaranteed) continues to be included in the team salary. If instead he is waived 2/3 through the season, then $4 million (reflecting the salary actually paid) continues to be included. Players on non-guaranteed "summer contracts" are not included in team salary at all unless they make the team's regular season roster (see question number 70).

As described in question number 65, if the contract or extension was signed under the previous CBA, then the team and player may negotiate a revised payment schedule. If the contract or extension was signed under the current CBA, the remaining guaranteed salary is paid over twice the number of remaining years, plus one, per the Stretch provision:

If the player's salary payments are spread-out using the Stretch provision, the team may elect to stretch the salary cap charge to match2. For example, if two seasons remain on the player's contract when he is waived, and the payment is spread-out over five years per the Stretch provision, then the team may elect to spread-out the salary cap hit over those same five years.
In all other cases (i.e., when the contract or extension was not signed under the current CBA, or when the team elects not to spread-out the cap hit per the Stretch provision), the player's remaining guaranteed salary is included in team salary in the remaining years of the contract, ignoring any revisions to the payment schedule. For example, if a player who signed under the previous CBA is waived with two seasons remaining on his contract and the team & player negotiate a lump-sum payout of the remaining guaranteed salary, the player's salary continues to be included in team salary over the next two seasons.

The remainder of the contract includes any seasons following an Early Termination Option (ETO), but not a season following a player or team option. However, as mentioned in question number 59, all contracts with player options contain a clause indicating whether the player receives his salary for the option year in the event he is waived before the option is picked-up. This clause states that the benefit is "to the same extent" as if the option had been exercised. The league interprets this to mean that the team salary is charged to all seasons of the contract, including the unexercised option season. For example, when Derek Fisher was waived by the Houston Rockets during the 2011-12 season, his player option for the 2012-13 season was unexercised. His remaining guaranteed salary (he agreed to take less in a buyout arrangement) was charged to the Rockets' cap in both 2011-12 and 2012-13.

If another team signs a player who has cleared waivers, the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount. This is called the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it does not have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract for $5 million. If this player signs a $1 million contract with another team for the 2011-12 season, his original team gets to set off $1 million minus $762,195 (the minimum salary for a one-year veteran in 2011-12), divided by two, or $118,902. The team is still responsible for paying $4,881,098 of the original $5 million. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $5,881,098, which was more than he earned prior to being waived.

Teams and players may negotiate a waiver of the team's set-off rights. Typically this is done when a contract is altered as part of a buyout (see question number 67), but not at other times.3

[The Penguin]

Smith is going to sign for the vet's minimum. Why wouldn't he? It doesn't impact his earnings.

I couldn't care less about where this cancer ends up. I'm just glad he's no longer a Piston.

It does impact his earnings:

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract for $5 million. If this player signs a $1 million contract with another team for the 2011-12 season, his original team gets to set off $1 million minus $762,195 (the minimum salary for a one-year veteran in 2011-12), divided by two, or $118,902. The team is still responsible for paying $4,881,098 of the original $5 million. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $5,881,098, which was more than he earned prior to being waived.

Conceptually -

A guy is owed 10 mil when waved
He signs a new deal for 5 mil
The Vets min is 1 mil
The set off would be 4 mil / 2 = 2 mil
The original team would owe 8 mil, the new team 5 mil and he would get paid 13 mil

[ImHeisenberg]

Conceptually -

A guy is owed 10 mil when waved
He signs a new deal for 5 mil
The Vets min is 1 mil
The set off would be 4 mil / 2 = 2 mil
The original team would owe 8 mil, the new team 5 mil and he would get paid 13 mil

Correct. It has an impact on the Pistons cap space this year (which doesn't make any real difference, considering the direction the team is taking), and Smith still receives his $13.5 million. However that money is split up is ultimately negligible to him.

[Natopher]

Josh is going to sign with Houston.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/547814449927970816[/tweet]

[DBC10]

Smith only considered teams that would start him. So HOU and MIA according to Stein.

That's the cancer we all know and love. HOU is gonna have such growing pains. I'm glad we got rid of this delusional starter, he ain't good enough. He would've been awesome as a off the bench Boris Diaw role..

[Ghost]

Neptune got his wish

Watch this **** work out smh

[princeofpalace]

I think Smith will look fine in Houston, he won't be taking 15 shots a game cuz he's got Howard, Harden and maybe Ariza ahead of him. Smith will block some shots, grab some rebounds, make some solid passes and will be the 3rd/4th option. He will also look better on defense since he'll be part of an Ariza/Howard front court.

I think in a month or so, SVG will take some flack for this move for failing to try minimizing Josh Smith's role in the offense before waiving him.

[ChipButty]

Neptune got his wish

Watch this **** work out smh

I didn't particularly care where he ended up, but I think this is the most interesting option as we'll be able to see how he fits with Howard (the player Dre is often compared to) and a #1 wing option in Harden (something our team is desperately lacking).

[ChipButty]

I think Smith will look fine in Houston, he won't be taking 15 shots a game cuz he's got Howard, Harden and maybe Ariza ahead of him. Smith will block some shots, grab some rebounds, make some solid passes and will be the 3rd/4th option. He will also look better on defense since he'll be part of an Ariza/Howard front court.

I think in a month or so, SVG will take some flack for this move for failing to try minimizing Josh Smith's role in the offense before waiving him.

LOL. I can see it now. 3 years down the road and Smith has a couple of rings while we are left reminiscing about the days when Stuckey was better than Harden, Dre was the next Howard and Smith was the source of all the Pistons problems.

[Snakebites]

Rockets land Smith.

Well, at least now there's no conflict about how my most hated team is. The Rockets now have Dwight AND Smith.

I wish that team nothing but dismal disappointment.

[mattao313]

I couldn't careless what Josh Smith does on another team he was plain awful as a Piston and thats all that counts at the end.

[c rasheed]

He'll be cut before the end of the season