Game 31: Phoenix Suns (16-14) @ Sacramento Kings(12-16)

[thamadkant]

Thomas was on a mission for himself. It was so obvious. Luckily for us he hit his shots. But sometimes it's disgusting.

I can sort of agree with that partially.
There was a couple of tough lay ins he got and he was so hyped up and was yelling loud, maybe even glanced at the Kings benched.

Usually against other teams he would be "cool", as if the move he just did was easy... But in this game he was pumped and hyped up as if he had a chip on his shoulder... An additional chip.


He wasnt bad in this game... But I'm wondering if Cousins played, would he and Cousins taunt each other? I dunno, but I feel that their is something there.

[thamadkant]

Tucker, IT, Plumlee, Green ... the hate on this board for these players is ridiculous.

My question would be, why do you let other people's opinion bother you.


If you like those players, then so be it.
Others don't have to have the same opinion as you.

For me I've accepted others here won't ever believe in Goodwin, but I just rebut them with the positives he brings and how Goodwin being good ultimately helps the Suns.

If someone doesn't like Green, Tucker, IT, Plumlee etc then it's their business, I'm sure they have their own reasons.

Those players have major flaws and I can understand why some fans point out those flaws a lot.

I know it's ironic that I'm replying about someone replying about someone complaining. But seriously this is a free forum where everyone is allowed to have their voice. No point complaining about others not having the same opinion.

There are fans of those players and their will be doubters too.

[Fo-Real]

The Thomas stuff has gotten out of hand. I am a fan of trading him because I want to see a more pass first guy in Tyler Ennis get his hands dirty with a second unit of scorers in Gerald and Marcus, but im not naive enough to think and say he hasnt helped us immensely in some of our wins, and straight won a couple by his self. The kid is a BALLER... might not fit us going ahead but he can play, like someone said if you focus and watch for only his negatives you will see them.
Thomas is a SCORE FIRST POINT GUARD, management knew this **** when they signed him. One of our problems last year was when one of our two starting guards weren't on the court a d Green didnt have it going, we bogged down and couldnt score. Might have been an over reaction to bring in a spark plug like Thomas in hindsight now seeing that Marcus comes in and tries to assume the rome of scorer and there arent enough balls for Thomas, Green, and Marcus, and getting LUCKY IN THE DRAFT, and getting a guy in Ennis who can probably give you minutes on the court so early in his career,but that's what they were thinking.
Like I said... I am all for trading him to improve our big man situation ( LEN IS FU#$! NG BALLING BY THE WAY), But only because his fit here can be replaced, not because he cant play. Even as a score first pg he is still dishing a bit... this game both Goran and Bled had 6 assists while Thomas had 5... that's not black hole status. Question how many shots he takes and shot selection but with the mind of a scorer those will always be questions... see Kobe, guys like Green and tons of scorer brains the likes, he still isnt turning the ball over as much as Bled.

[Fo-Real]

Thomas fits better here than dysfunctional Sacto.... with guys like Gay and Cousins demanding thier touches and shots while trying to FORCE Meek ass McLemore to be more assertive and shoot ( see Goran under Gentry's coaching), he was in the way. With those two on the court, anyone coming down the court and launching a 3 without them even touching the ball is an insult. Not so much in our more open system without any ball dominant star! So can he shoot a little less... yes... can still be coached, is he really stepping on anyone's toes.... no, we dont have a star who demands the ball... sometimes to a fault. When Kief has it going he still isnt calling for and demanding the ball... and sometimes HE SHOULD. Same with Goran and Bledso. About the only one who gets mad that he isnt getting more touches and shots when he has it going is Gerald Green.... and this is where some of our problem lies because he and Thomas play together so often and Gerald loses interest... witch makes him play worse in other aspects of his game. But even when Green has it going and is TORCHING the other team... his shot selection makes me cringe from time to time. Was worse for me last year but I expect them more from him this year... have become more accustomed to his shot selection. Not comfort but accustomed.... his rhythm is his rythem.. if it works. Maybe familiarity with Thomas will bring the same. MAYBE HIS LITTLE ASS NEEDS TO FOCUS ON TAKING 5 LESS SHOTS PER GAME!!!!! I DONT KNOW.

[Sunsdeuce]

Tucker, IT, Plumlee, Green ... the hate on this board for these players is ridiculous.

My question would be, why do you let other people's opinion bother you.


If you like those players, then so be it.
Others don't have to have the same opinion as you.

For me I've accepted others here won't ever believe in Goodwin, but I just rebut them with the positives he brings and how Goodwin being good ultimately helps the Suns.

If someone doesn't like Green, Tucker, IT, Plumlee etc then it's their business, I'm sure they have their own reasons.

Those players have major flaws and I can understand why some fans point out those flaws a lot.

I know it's ironic that I'm replying about someone replying about someone complaining. But seriously this is a free forum where everyone is allowed to have their voice. No point complaining about others not having the same opinion.

There are fans of those players and their will be doubters too.

I wish there was a +10000 button. I definitely give you it! That's the best post I have seen on this thread.

I'm sorry if my dislike for it and Tucker offends people. To me it is not a team player and Tucker is a hardworking below average player (low IQ). I think people confuse his game hustle with "actual defense." He is not very good at defense but he tries really hard so people think he is good at defense.

Again I'm sorry if that pisses some people off.

[Revived]

Tucker, IT, Plumlee, Green ... the hate on this board for these players is ridiculous.

Not sure about Tucker...but for the other threee: There's a reason.

Yea it's funny to see these posters complaining about "hate", I guess they most "love" watching a ball hogging team get 9th or 10th seed AGAIN for what, 3rd or 4th time in past 6 years?

Oh but wait, that's right none of these posters claiming "hate" will even be here once PHX gets eliminated from postseason for the 5th consecutive year....

[NavLDO]

I think by this time next year,

good win

Um yes it would be. Do you know which all Cs have averaged 20-10 in the past 5 years?

Okay Fine, it wouldn't be a stretch to expect Len to get 18-10 regularly

His per36 numbers are already 11.3/9.9, and while I know those are misleading, I think it would be fair to start expecting close to 30 MPG the 2nd half of the season, and those numbers are projected to 9.4/8.2, but understand those numbers include the games where he was still getting his "feet under him"; I'd be perfectly happy with 10/8 for his season end sat line.

And one other interesting stat on Len...in fact, I find it VERY interesting, is that this season, he's played 4 games over 25 minutes. In those games, he's averaged a stat line of 16.8/8. Now, I'm not suggesting that when he plays 25+ minutes, he's somehow a better player. The point is that I think Horny realizes when he's got a hot hand and he keeps him in, which is great, because in Dec, he's averaging nearly 20 minutes, and the last 4 games have all been over 20, and he's avg'd a stat line of 9.8/8.5.

I guess I'm saying that it appears Len is turning the corner, so to speak, and by season's end, I wouldn't be surprised to see Len avg 25 MPG and somewhere around a 12/9 stat line during those games, with a season end stat line like above--10/8. The future looks bright for Len, and it may not be long before he's that "star" Center that starts getting the calls more often, rather than the calls going against him.

[Sunsdeuce]

Tucker, IT, Plumlee, Green ... the hate on this board for these players is ridiculous.

Not sure about Tucker...but for the other threee: There's a reason.

Yea it's funny to see these posters complaining about "hate", I guess they most "love" watching a ball hogging team get 9th or 10th seed AGAIN for what, 3rd or 4th time in past 6 years?

Oh but wait, that's right none of these posters claiming "hate" will even be here once PHX gets eliminated from postseason for the 5th consecutive year....

I'm happy the Suns won but I'm not happy if the end result is another 9th seed. It's getting old. For six straight years all i hear is "talk" from the Suns office. They preach patience but so far patience has not equaled anything. I'm not contend with this team being mediocre.

[aIvin adams]

IT was such a cold-hearted killer at the end of the third. whoa. he must have felt pretty jazzed after getting so many cheers. i saw many people standing up to applaud when he checked in (sac feed). i guess he'll always have more fans there than he does here. unless he does what he did at the end of the third more often...that was an assassination. dribble breakdown 2-for-1 assist for three, then a karate chop jump three pointer at the buzzer.

Len. he posted up! i saw it. he got immediately fouled by whatever smaller player he had pinned down. dunno if he got it again because i was playing civ5 with my wife and so the suns game died hungry and neglected by our side (we have no babies yet thank God)

[batsmasher]

I'm happy the Suns won but I'm not happy if the end result is another 9th seed. It's getting old. For six straight years all i hear is "talk" from the Suns office. They preach patience but so far patience has not equaled anything. I'm not contend with this team being mediocre.

Well I challenge you to be a little more patient. McD's been in charge for a tad over the year and has barely laid a foot wrong. He was voted the second best GM last season. The last thing this team needs is a bunch of impatient fans who forget that this team is still rebuilding, albeit much faster than expected.

[Sunsdeuce]

I'm happy the Suns won but I'm not happy if the end result is another 9th seed. It's getting old. For six straight years all i hear is "talk" from the Suns office. They preach patience but so far patience has not equaled anything. I'm not contend with this team being mediocre.

Well I challenge you to be a little more patient. McD's been in charge for a tad over the year and has barely laid a foot wrong. He was voted the second best GM last season. The last thing this team needs is a bunch of impatient fans who forget that this team is still rebuilding, albeit much faster than expected.

I have endured decades of bad cardinals football so I can handle it but to be honest, as long time Suns fan it is hard. Colangelo set a high bar that sarver hasn't come close to.

[bigfoot]

The Thomas stuff has gotten out of hand. I am a fan of trading him because I want to see a more pass first guy in Tyler Ennis get his hands dirty with a second unit of scorers in Gerald and Marcus, but im not naive enough to think and say he hasnt helped us immensely in some of our wins, and straight won a couple by his self. The kid is a BALLER... might not fit us going ahead but he can play, like someone said if you focus and watch for only his negatives you will see them.

This!! They call IT a ball hog or hate when he pounds the ball yet forget

1) He is third on the team in assists (so much for the black hole theory)
2) He is tied for 1st in free throw attempts (a very important and often overlooked stat)
3) He is a very good free throw shooter (.860)
4) He is shooting threes at a much higher percentage (.371) than Bledsoe and Dragic
5) He has the highest PER on the team (20.1)
6) He rarely turns the ball over, especially when compared to Bledsoe and Dragic
7) He has a very good true shooting percentage (.569 ... similar to many post players)
8) He is third on the team in points (15.3)
9) He only plays 24 minutes per game (incredible numbers for a bench player)
10) He is clutch (hitting numerous game winning shots/free throws for us already)

People fail to realize you have to score to win. I remember in the last few Nash years without Amare and Marion. Nash would dribble around and look for passes. He would rarely go off for a 25 to 40 point games. He just wouldn't look to score and we really didn't have other options. We just didn't have a goto player with a scorer's mentality. Call it hero ball. Call it ISO mentality. Call it him a ball-pounding, ball-hog but somebody has to have the cojones to put the ball in the basket. And besides... Horny puts him on the floor at crunch time. I guess he see something the haters don't

[bigfoot]

I'm happy the Suns won but I'm not happy if the end result is another 9th seed. It's getting old. For six straight years all i hear is "talk" from the Suns office. They preach patience but so far patience has not equaled anything. I'm not contend with this team being mediocre.

Here we go. McD has been here slightly over a year and has done an incredible job. Yet for you it is either 1) be a contending team or 2) be so horrible we get a top pick. So the Warriors were never mediocre? How about the Grizzlies? How about the Thunder?? You expect a team to go from the cellar to contender in one season.

[Moochthemonkey]

Tucker, IT, Plumlee, Green ... the hate on this board for these players is ridiculous.

My question would be, why do you let other people's opinion bother you.


If you like those players, then so be it.
Others don't have to have the same opinion as you.

I know it's ironic that I'm replying about someone replying about someone complaining. But seriously this is a free forum where everyone is allowed to have their voice

Exactly! I respect and encourage other people to share their (different) opinions. On the contrary, people have a right to argue these opinions, otherwise there would be no discussion.

There also is a line between disliking a player and giving constructive criticism, to the blatant hating (which doesn't include the faux "hater game" ish) and slinging of offensive insults towards a player on the very team that they support! It doesn't make sense to me- I feel like I'm not even reading the Suns forum when this happens, and it especially doesn't make sense considering there are no Shannon Browns or Michael Beasley's on this team anymore. And then there's always the 2 or 3 posters with the celebratory "i told you so" comments when the player they hate makes an ill-advised play.

I don't expect or necessarily want people to agree with me in the end, but I would hope they can see where I'm coming from.

[Moochthemonkey]

I'm happy the Suns won but I'm not happy if the end result is another 9th seed. It's getting old. For six straight years all i hear is "talk" from the Suns office. They preach patience but so far patience has not equaled anything. I'm not contend with this team being mediocre.

it's been five years actually, three years into the post Nash rebuild, they sucked for one year (not mediocre), and I believe Dragic/Bledsoe/Warren/Markieff/Len can be something special. Don't forget the Lakers pick. 9th seed or 15th, playoffs or no playoffs, this team has the necessary assets to go forward. The rookies will get their time when OKC is fully healthy and SA eventually gets serious.

[bigfoot]

Tucker, IT, Plumlee, Green ... the hate on this board for these players is ridiculous.

My question would be, why do you let other people's opinion bother you.


If you like those players, then so be it.
Others don't have to have the same opinion as you.

For me I've accepted others here won't ever believe in Goodwin, but I just rebut them with the positives he brings and how Goodwin being good ultimately helps the Suns.

If someone doesn't like Green, Tucker, IT, Plumlee etc then it's their business, I'm sure they have their own reasons.

Those players have major flaws and I can understand why some fans point out those flaws a lot.

I know it's ironic that I'm replying about someone replying about someone complaining. But seriously this is a free forum where everyone is allowed to have their voice. No point complaining about others not having the same opinion.

There are fans of those players and their will be doubters too.

Hey ... no doubt ... I'm bothered by a few opinions ... people making claims like "IT has no NET value to the Suns" or "IT pounds the ball while the four other guys stand around with their hands up waiting for a pass".

These are generally ill-informed and one-sided opinions repeated by the same few people over and over and over and over again. I can get that sh*t by watching CNN or Fox News. What we have is blind people who only can watch the person with the ball and not what is happening off the ball. I'm sure they fail to realize Gerald Green works his azz off running around screens trying to get an open shot off. Plumlee and Tucker set boatloads of screens for Bledsoe, Dragic, and IT. When they roll to the basket on the screen and Bledsoe, Dragic, or IT get an open 17 foot shot nobody say nice roll to the basket guys. Nobody thinks to see if ITs ball pounding is really a result of the play that was called didn't develop properly because of good defense by the other team or a mistake by the other Suns players. If IT (the point guard) has the ball and the other four guys are standing around with their hands up then the problem is those guys aren't running the play properly.

In terms of Goodwin he hasn't earned his time. He's barely 20 and certainly not as good as Dragic or Green ... otherwise he would have already been on the court. He will get his chance. Probably next year when Green isn't around anymore.

[kennydorglas]

The Thomas stuff has gotten out of hand. I am a fan of trading him because I want to see a more pass first guy in Tyler Ennis get his hands dirty with a second unit of scorers in Gerald and Marcus, but im not naive enough to think and say he hasnt helped us immensely in some of our wins, and straight won a couple by his self. The kid is a BALLER... might not fit us going ahead but he can play, like someone said if you focus and watch for only his negatives you will see them.

This!! They call IT a ball hog or hate when he pounds the ball yet forget

1) He is third on the team in assists (so much for the black hole theory)
2) He is tied for 1st in free throw attempts (a very important and often overlooked stat)
3) He is a very good free throw shooter (.860)
4) He is shooting threes at a much higher percentage (.371) than Bledsoe and Dragic
5) He has the highest PER on the team (20.1)
6) He rarely turns the ball over, especially when compared to Bledsoe and Dragic
7) He has a very good true shooting percentage (.569 ... similar to many post players)
8) He is third on the team in points (15.3)
9) He only plays 24 minutes per game (incredible numbers for a bench player)
10) He is clutch (hitting numerous game winning shots/free throws for us already)

People fail to realize you have to score to win. I remember in the last few Nash years without Amare and Marion. Nash would dribble around and look for passes. He would rarely go off for a 25 to 40 point games. He just wouldn't look to score and we really didn't have other options. We just didn't have a goto player with a scorer's mentality. Call it hero ball. Call it ISO mentality. Call it him a ball-pounding, ball-hog but somebody has to have the cojones to put the ball in the basket. And besides... Horny puts him on the floor at crunch time. I guess he see something the haters don't

He's the perfect sixth-man, Jamal Crawford's esque.
You forgot to tell but he made almost 8 assists for 1 bad pass... This is an awesome ratio (better than Cp3 for example)
I think people still thinks he needs to be a complete player even leading our 2nd unit.