Big Al's Paint: The Al Jefferson Thread

Post #1761 » by **floppymoose** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:12 am

I think at least two of Al/Kemba/MKG have to go.

LamarMatic7 · Post #1762 » by **LamarMatic7** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:30 am

floppymoose wrote:I think at least two of Al/Kemba/MKG have to go.

I'd make that Al/Kemba/MKG/Lance. I wouldn't call Stephenson less expandable than any of the other three.

But, yeah, either way the point is about the same.

stinger14 · Post #1763 » by **stinger14** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:42 am

LamarMatic7 wrote:
floppymoose wrote:I think at least two of Al/Kemba/MKG have to go.

I'd make that Al/Kemba/MKG/Lance. I wouldn't call Stephenson less expandable than any of the other three.

But, yeah, either way the point is about the same.

MKG needs to go nowhere. Hes improved every year, and is shooting 50 % from the floor this year. Problem is, he doesn't get but 6 shots per game because we have a couple guys who are volume chunkers, and will never take us beyond a 7/8 seed and 1st round exit.

Kemba or Lance needs to go, but not both. I think Lance is the better all around player and better pg, but Kemba is good enough to build on if Lance is traded.

Al Jefferson has got to go. Getting older, game is in decline, does not fit with the young athletic core, scores points but gives up just as many, selfish player looking for numbers, contract nearing end and will kill this franchise if kept and resigned. May bring back value in a trade to help this franchise a lot more than he wI'll in the future.

This team would be better with Biyombo starting at center. He fits in with the core much better, and If you really pay attention and watch him, he has gotten much better.

Per 36 minute averages this year,

Biyombo - .60 % shooting, 11 ppg, 14.5 rpg, 3.5 blocks, great defense, team player with athleticism that fits with rest of team

Al - .48 % shooting, 19 ppg, 8.5 rpg, horrible defense, slow and doesn't fit with team, selfish player looking for numbers and will not pass the ball, there are reasons he has never been successful in playoffs

Biyombo will never be the offensive player that Al is, but he is efficient because he takes shots that he can make, thus the .60 % shooting. Biyombo knows how to kick the ball back out. Al is not passing no matter how many shooters he has around him. Al is declining and his shooting and rebound numbers show it.

Where Biyombo doesn't provide the offense Al does, he provides some of the best defense in the entire league in the paint. Al is one of the worst if not the worst in this area. Not only does Biyombo block shots, he protects the rim and paint by affecting shots, using his athleticism to help on others defensively, and is athletic enough to cover the big guys that take their game outside the paint at times.

So, given equal playing time, yeah Al will score 9 more points in a game. However, Biyombo with his rebounding, his defense, his team play, athleticism, and efficient offense by taking smart shots, makes him a better overall option.

Braggins · Post #1764 » by **Braggins** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:52 am

I think Al should go before making any decisions on other players, but I don't think MKG should go anywhere regardless. Kemba and Lance are on very benign contracts so it isn't like they are killing our cap or keeping us from contending the next couple years because that likely isn't happening with or without them. They are both young and have a lot of talent so there isn't much reason to get rid of them at this point.

This season has given me hope that Biyombo can be a good starter in this league for the right team and I think that team could be us but starting might be too big of a leap in terms of responsibility for him right now and there is no need to rush him. I do think he is better for our team and we play better with him than with Al but it just isn't the time for Biyombo to make the transition to starter. I do think he should be getting a solid 18-20 mpg though off the bench.

Bassman · Post #1765 » by **Bassman** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:05 pm

Still believe Al is going nowhere, as this front office sees he and Kemba as the core for the next 2 seasons minimum. That is a shame, as Al is slowing down, plays no D, and could bring us assets as part of a trade. I want Noah to get minutes, as he is a key to our future, but coach rigid won't do it.

I am not a very happy Hornets fan....

MasterIchiro · Post #1766 » by **MasterIchiro** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:21 pm

Watching games I always get the feeling Al doesn't rebound enough. Last night I made a comment about how he seems to not know how to box out. His man gets free all the time. But then I look up and he's 18th in the NBA in RPG. That's mediocre but not as terrible as it often appears during games when he just stands there and his guy goes hog wild. I looked at offensive rebounds and he's at 1.5, which is about half as many offensive boards per game as most of the starting centers. On a team without outside shooting it would be beneficial to get them more 2nd chances but some will say offensive rebounds are overrated.

So I dug a little further...

When you adjust for minutes and look at RP48, Big Al falls from 18th to 57th in the NBA.

He's not a good rebounder at all and he logs huge minutes for the Hornets.

When Biz plays the defense improves but so does the rebounding and that makes a big difference.

At any rate, the 57th best rebounder in the NBA is not someone you give big money to and years, not as his age and considering his defense is terrible.

thruthefire · Post #1767 » by **thruthefire** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:55 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:Watching games I always get the feeling Al doesn't rebound enough. Last night I made a comment about how he seems to not know how to box out. His man gets free all the time. But then I look up and he's 18th in the NBA in RPG. That's mediocre but not as terrible as it often appears during games when he just stands there and his guy goes hog wild. I looked at offensive rebounds and he's at 1.5, which is about half as many offensive boards per game as most of the starting centers. On a team without outside shooting it would be beneficial to get them more 2nd chances but some will say offensive rebounds are overrated.

So I dug a little further...

When you adjust for minutes and look at RP48, Big Al falls from 18th to 57th in the NBA.

He's not a good rebounder at all and he logs huge minutes for the Hornets.

When Biz plays the defense improves but so does the rebounding and that makes a big difference.

At any rate, the 57th best rebounder in the NBA is not someone you give big money to and years, not as his age and considering his defense is terrible.

I just made a post about offensive rebounding in the Biz thread. Everyone focuses on the lack of shooters, but that's not our only problem.

MasterIchiro · Post #1768 » by **MasterIchiro** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:02 pm

thruthefire wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Watching games I always get the feeling Al doesn't rebound enough. Last night I made a comment about how he seems to not know how to box out. His man gets free all the time. But then I look up and he's 18th in the NBA in RPG. That's mediocre but not as terrible as it often appears during games when he just stands there and his guy goes hog wild. I looked at offensive rebounds and he's at 1.5, which is about half as many offensive boards per game as most of the starting centers. On a team without outside shooting it would be beneficial to get them more 2nd chances but some will say offensive rebounds are overrated.

So I dug a little further...

When you adjust for minutes and look at RP48, Big Al falls from 18th to 57th in the NBA.

He's not a good rebounder at all and he logs huge minutes for the Hornets.

When Biz plays the defense improves but so does the rebounding and that makes a big difference.

At any rate, the 57th best rebounder in the NBA is not someone you give big money to and years, not as his age and considering his defense is terrible.

I just made a post about offensive rebounding in the Biz thread. Everyone focuses on the lack of shooters, but that's not our only problem.

Yes I saw that, without Biz we are possibly the worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA. Combine that with being the 2nd worst 3pt shooting team in the NBA. It's a recipe for failure and so frustrating to watch - we miss - possession over - that's it. That pressure can raise the tension levels and actually impact shooting efficiency imo. It makes little sense to build a team around Al, especially when shooting is at such a high premium in the NBA and Cho failed to address it in all 5 of his lottery selections. It will be a major challenge to solve internally or externally. I don't see how they can reconcile it.

MasterIchiro · Post #1769 » by **MasterIchiro** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:25 am

Is he going to opt in?

Liver_Pooty · Post #1770 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:31 am

MasterIchiro wrote:Is he going to opt in?

Unfortunately, yes.

Post #1771 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:32 am

MasterIchiro wrote:Is he going to opt in?

He's averaging 19 and 8 with a 20 PER and percentages that are right around his career averages. He's no less attractive now than he was before he came to Charlotte, and the market has dramatically risen with the developments in the future cap projections.

I think it's highly unlikely that he opts in. However, I also think it's unlikely that we don't work out an extension.

MasterIchiro · Post #1772 » by **MasterIchiro** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:33 am

Liver_Pooty wrote::lol:
MasterIchiro wrote:Is he going to opt in?

Unfortunately, yes.

So we are locked into this disaster of a team 2 years straight. Great.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1773 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:37 am

MasterIchiro wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote::lol:
MasterIchiro wrote:Is he going to opt in?

Unfortunately, yes.

So we are locked into this disaster of a team 2 years straight. Great.

Trade him.

MasterIchiro · Post #1774 » by **MasterIchiro** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:41 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Trade him.

Really think they will reach that point? They should be there now.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1775 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:45 am

MasterIchiro wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
Trade him.

Really think they will reach that point? They should be there now.

Has no value. We're in same situation Utah was in trying to get rid of him. They had to ride it out.

MasterIchiro · Post #1776 » by **MasterIchiro** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:49 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
Trade him.

Really think they will reach that point? They should be there now.

Has no value. We're in same situation Utah was in trying to get rid of him. They had to ride it out.

Are you saying that because his play angers you or do you really think his value is zero?

MKGsMotor · Post #1777 » by **MKGsMotor** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:50 am

Trade big al and hendo to new orleans for asik and Austin rivers

Post #1778 » by **yosemiteben** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:51 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
Trade him.

Really think they will reach that point? They should be there now.

Has no value. We're in same situation Utah was in trying to get rid of him. They had to ride it out.

What makes you think Al will be any less sought out now than he was before?

During his aggregate time here in Charlotte he has provided solid value for his what he's being paid. Last year he outperformed the contract we gave him.

IMO this offseason he is going to be able to get a multi-year deal for at least what he'd make from us next year.

MasterIchiro · Post #1779 » by **MasterIchiro** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:51 am

MKGsMotor wrote:Trade big al and hendo to new orleans for asik and Austin rivers

Not bad, hopefully they'd go for that.

Braggins · Post #1780 » by **Braggins** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:20 am

No one is going to ruin their defense for a guy because he'll give you 19ppg if you give him 20 post isos a game. He is absoluty horrible at every aspect of the game except low post scoring and defensive rebounding. He also thinks he is a star even though he is clearly a 6th man at best. I could see someone giving him 10 mil to play a smaller role but no team in their right mind is going to pay him to be a 1st or 2nd option. He is getting old and is clearly in awful shape and declining. His only useful skill isnt what teams are looking for at C. We should be everything we can to trade him but with his contract I actually think he has negative value. I think he would opt in but we will likely extend him first or assure him we'll resign him if he opts out. Either way I dont see him going anywhere for a few years. It isnt looking good.