Official Trade Thread: Two drink minimum

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1641 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:23 pm

Kieff is playing awesome ball for us. Clearly superior to Sullinger or Gibson. This would appear to be a clear case of Grass is Always Greener.

If we're looking to upgrade, it's got to be at the 2 or 3 spot. I like Dragic just fine, but he's not the world's greatest 2. And there are better starters in this league than Tucker.

gaspar · Post #1642 » by **gaspar** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:31 pm

Does anyone know when they will announce who claimed Tarik Black?

KRS-ONE · Post #1643 » by **KRS-ONE** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:33 pm

guys, what do you think about trading for d-mo, this kid has amazing post moves, can finish with a right or left also can hit a 3

carey · Post #1644 » by **carey** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:36 pm

I'd look into what it would take to acquire David Lee from Golden State. They've been winning without him (he just came back 2 games ago) and they are going to need the cap room to pay Draymond Green and Lee still makes $15Mil next year. It's a lot of money, but I'm intrigued by a Lee/Kieff/Len rotation. I think the biggest problem would be matching salaries right now. We have some cap space so wouldn't need to send out the full $15Mil but it would still gut us a little bit... something like IT and Tucker. Though I can't remember if Tucker's deal is guaranteed next year or not. If so that doesn't save them a whole lot. It might have to be IT and Green and that leaves our back court pretty thin. There probably isn't a deal that works.

gaspar · Post #1645 » by **gaspar** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:44 pm

carey wrote:I'd look into what it would take to acquire David Lee from Golden State. They've been winning without him (he just came back 2 games ago) and they are going to need the cap room to pay Draymond Green and Lee still makes $15Mil next year. It's a lot of money, but I'm intrigued by a Lee/Kieff/Len rotation. I think the biggest problem would be matching salaries right now. We have some cap space so wouldn't need to send out the full $15Mil but it would still gut us a little bit... something like IT and Tucker. Though I can't remember if Tucker's deal is guaranteed next year or not. If so that doesn't save them a whole lot. It might have to be IT and Green and that leaves our back court pretty thin. There probably isn't a deal that works.

Christine-In-AZ · Post #1646 » by **Christine-In-AZ** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:45 pm

Calvin Klein wrote:To be honest, if the opportunity comes, I'd ship both Morrii, IT and some picks for an All Star PF.

...what would you like Mr.Riley?

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1647 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:51 pm

KRS-ONE wrote:guys, what do you think about trading for d-mo, this kid has amazing post moves, can finish with a right or left also can hit a 3

Might be a good fit for us. Defensively not what we need, but no player's perfect.

carey wrote:I'd look into what it would take to acquire David Lee from Golden State. They've been winning without him (he just came back 2 games ago) and they are going to need the cap room to pay Draymond Green and Lee still makes $15Mil next year. It's a lot of money, but I'm intrigued by a Lee/Kieff/Len rotation. I think the biggest problem would be matching salaries right now. We have some cap space so wouldn't need to send out the full $15Mil but it would still gut us a little bit... something like IT and Tucker. Though I can't remember if Tucker's deal is guaranteed next year or not. If so that doesn't save them a whole lot. It might have to be IT and Green and that leaves our back court pretty thin. There probably isn't a deal that works.

Not a bad idea, but I'd hate the fact that GS gets all the value in the deal. Tucker and IT have good contracts; Lee's is not so great. Maybe a 3-way, with other assets heading to Golden State, and a draft pick or prospect coming our way.

ChrisInAZ wrote:
Calvin Klein wrote:To be honest, if the opportunity comes, I'd ship both Morrii, IT and some picks for an All Star PF.

...what would you like Mr.Riley?

Dislike. For our purposes, considering chemistry, price and age, Wonder Twins > Bosh.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1648 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:55 pm

It's hard to be patient, I know. The players I worry about right now are Gogi and Green because they're not under contract. Doesn't mean we couldn't arrange a S&T this summer. But Gogi's production has also dropped off from last year and you've really got to wonder if he's really a great fit with our personnel and our plan going forward. Having Hornacek as a coach increases the likelihood that he'll stick around, I think, because Coach probably sees a lot of himself in Gogi. We'll see.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1649 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:56 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
SF88 wrote:I'm kinda surprised that our only move so far has been trading Tolliver for cap space.

Its the calm before the storm.

What would your guess be as to what the storm will consist of? Not that you've got an inside traxx or anything.

Barkley_34 · Post #1650 » by **Barkley_34** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:12 pm

KRS-ONE wrote:guys, what do you think about trading for d-mo, this kid has amazing post moves, can finish with a right or left also can hit a 3

For What ?

KRS-ONE · Post #1651 » by **KRS-ONE** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:43 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
KRS-ONE wrote:guys, what do you think about trading for d-mo, this kid has amazing post moves, can finish with a right or left also can hit a 3

Might be a good fit for us. Defensively not what we need, but no player's perfect.

If you didnt pay attention his defense was so much better than previous seasons. Maybe he is not the most athletic guy near the basket but his pick & roll defense and man-to-man is better than avarage.

KRS-ONE · Post #1652 » by **KRS-ONE** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:47 pm

Barkley_34 wrote:
KRS-ONE wrote:guys, what do you think about trading for d-mo, this kid has amazing post moves, can finish with a right or left also can hit a 3

For What ?

I think suns need to trade one of their pgs maybe we should consider trading dragic.
Maybe dmo+pick for dragic?

Barkley_34 · Post #1653 » by **Barkley_34** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:51 pm

KRS-ONE wrote:
Barkley_34 wrote:
KRS-ONE wrote:guys, what do you think about trading for d-mo, this kid has amazing post moves, can finish with a right or left also can hit a 3

For What ?

I think suns need to trade one of their pgs maybe we should consider trading dragic.
Maybe dmo+pick for dragic?

Why we should trade dragic for DMo and a pick? Explain

NavLDO · Post #1654 » by **NavLDO** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:57 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:Kieff is playing awesome ball for us. Clearly superior to Sullinger or Gibson. This would appear to be a clear case of Grass is Always Greener.

If we're looking to upgrade, it's got to be at the 2 or 3 spot. I like Dragic just fine, but he's not the world's greatest 2. And there are better starters in this league than Tucker.

Wait...what??? I don't think so. Look, I'm a Markieff-lover (no, not like THAT! :lol:

) if there ever was one, and I'll defend, and have, his play on this team as being a bargain for what we are paying him, but he is not "clearly superior" to Sullinger.

Sullinger is a better rebounder and has the capability of being a bigger presence in the paint. He's a tad shorter than Kieff (like a 1/4" shorter), but definitely thicker. And while Sullinger is more "streaky" than Kieff, he's 3 years younger than Kieff, which is to be expected. He is a much better player than Kieff at similar ages in their career. Overall, career-wise, as well, Sullinger is neck and neck with Kieff already.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

Compare Kieff's 2nd Season (Age 23) with Sullinger's 3rd Season (Age 22), and it's clearly in favor of Sullinger.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

And if you think that is unfair to compare 3rd season vs 2nd season, here's the comparison for each player's 3rd season with Kieff having a 1.5 year age advantage. Pretty much neck and neck, with Sullinger winning out in ORB, DRB, TRB, 3-Pt % (and on almost 3-to-1 attempts/gm), APG, and TOV, and Kieff winning in PER, WS, FT%, ORtg.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

And yes, I recognize stats can be misleading, but there's no doubt that at comparable points in their careers, Sullinger is the better player hands down, on a team that's quite frankly, not as good as the Suns the past season and a half.

If there is a chance for us to grab Sullinger, I'd bet McD would jump on it in a heartbeat. And for the right package, Ainge may be willing to part with Sullinger, now that he has Bass, Green, Wallace, and now, Wright, as well as two Centers that could start on a lot of teams, IMO, in Olynyk and Zeller.

Boston could use upgrades at the 1, 2, and 3 positions, or at least, better/younger depth. They are on the cusp of the playoff picture in the East. They've lost 4 straight, and losing Rondo hasn't done them any favors. A package including any of IT, Tucker, Green, could get it done, I'd bet. We also have the younger guns Goodwin, Ennis, and Warren, that could be included as well. Or if needed, maybe Dragic could be packaged with Plumlee some how to get Olynyk...who knows, but point is, I think Boston would be a viable trading partner, and I bet we'd be able to help both teams get better by using Boston's depth in the Froncourt and ours in the Backcourt.

KRS-ONE · Post #1655 » by **KRS-ONE** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:58 pm

because we have 3 pgs and dragic is an expiring contract, and d-mo is very talented big man with one of the best if not the best footwork in the league

Barkley_34 · Post #1656 » by **Barkley_34** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:02 pm

KRS-ONE wrote:because we have 3 pgs and dragic is an expiring contract, and d-mo is very talented big man with one of the best if not the best footwork in the league

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. this is absurd. stop with this *****, Dragic is our best player, nba improve player of the year and all nba team. are you a troll? houston fan?

Scutt · Post #1657 » by **Scutt** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:13 pm

^ Eric Bledsoe is the Suns best player. He is also younger and a much better defender than Dragic.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1658 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:14 pm

We overestimate Dragic around here, non-Suns-fan friends. We think he's BOTH All-NBA 3rd Team and underrated.

I'll give Sully a closer look. One thing that's true about me is I pay too much attention to Suns players relative to the attention I pay to players on other teams. :l

Barkley_34 · Post #1659 » by **Barkley_34** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:27 pm

Scutt wrote:^ Eric Bledsoe is the Suns best player. He is also younger and a much better defender than Dragic.

I Love Bledshow too

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1660 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:30 pm

NavLDO wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:Kieff is playing awesome ball for us. Clearly superior to Sullinger or Gibson. This would appear to be a clear case of Grass is Always Greener.

If we're looking to upgrade, it's got to be at the 2 or 3 spot. I like Dragic just fine, but he's not the world's greatest 2. And there are better starters in this league than Tucker.

Wait...what??? I don't think so. Look, I'm a Markieff-lover (no, not like THAT! ) if there ever was one, and I'll defend, and have, his play on this team as being a bargain for what we are paying him, but he is not "clearly superior" to Sullinger.

Sullinger is a better rebounder and has the capability of being a bigger presence in the paint. He's a tad shorter than Kieff (like a 1/4" shorter), but definitely thicker. And while Sullinger is more "streaky" than Kieff, he's 3 years younger than Kieff, which is to be expected. He is a much better player than Kieff at similar ages in their career. Overall, career-wise, as well, Sullinger is neck and neck with Kieff already.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

Compare Kieff's 2nd Season (Age 23) with Sullinger's 3rd Season (Age 22), and it's clearly in favor of Sullinger.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

And if you think that is unfair to compare 3rd season vs 2nd season, here's the comparison for each player's 3rd season with Kieff having a 1.5 year age advantage. Pretty much neck and neck, with Sullinger winning out in ORB, DRB, TRB, 3-Pt % (and on almost 3-to-1 attempts/gm), APG, and TOV, and Kieff winning in PER, WS, FT%, ORtg.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

And yes, I recognize stats can be misleading, but there's no doubt that at comparable points in their careers, Sullinger is the better player hands down, on a team that's quite frankly, not as good as the Suns the past season and a half.

If there is a chance for us to grab Sullinger, I'd bet McD would jump on it in a heartbeat. And for the right package, Ainge may be willing to part with Sullinger, now that he has Bass, Green, Wallace, and now, Wright, as well as two Centers that could start on a lot of teams, IMO, in Olynyk and Zeller.

Boston could use upgrades at the 1, 2, and 3 positions, or at least, better/younger depth. They are on the cusp of the playoff picture in the East. They've lost 4 straight, and losing Rondo hasn't done them any favors. A package including any of IT, Tucker, Green, could get it done, I'd bet. We also have the younger guns Goodwin, Ennis, and Warren, that could be included as well. Or if needed, maybe Dragic could be packaged with Plumlee some how to get Olynyk...who knows, but point is, I think Boston would be a viable trading partner, and I bet we'd be able to help both teams get better by using Boston's depth in the Froncourt and ours in the Backcourt.

OK. I take it back. Markieff isn't clearly the better player. He is working well within our system currently, though, and I don't think he and Sullinger could coexist on the same roster for long. Markieff's 3P% is trending upwards, though. I think I still prefer Kieff for his mobility, speed and durability in comparison to Sullinger's size advantage. Because the Morrises combined I think are clearly > Sullinger, I remain uninterested in him.