GT: Bucks @ Hornets Mon Dec 29 7PM EST

[floppymoose]

Roberts flat out sucks. Play him for the drive and he's completely useless.

[yosemiteben]

what the hell has happened to cody the past few games?

This was the question I was left with. He looks completely uncertain as to what he's supposed to do out there.

[HornetJail]

what the hell has happened to cody the past few games?

This was the question I was left with. He looks completely uncertain as to what he's supposed to do out there.

Cody played better with his broken nose. ever since the tape came off he's reverted to rookie mode. I don't know what it means, but it's worth breaking his nose again to find out, right?

[UNCNYC]

Something is wrong with Al this year. He was so much better last year. Its like when he touched the ball last year it was almost automatic points. How I dont even consider him a scorer

[Braggins]

Clifford is a bad coach. Like, he is seriously clueless. I know the roster is flawed and there is more blame to go around but come on... I hate that we are stuck with this dude.

We cannot go forward with Al as our focal point or even our starting center and expect to be successful. He was nowhere close to being in good enough shape yet even before the groin injury and now he is a complete disaster and is going to have to miss time to recover which will put him in even worse shape. I really hope he sits at least the next 5 games (ideally more like 10) and Lance comes back asap. I want to see us start moving on from this tragically awful brand of basketball and focus on Kemba and Lance. It is obvious though that Al will probably be back playing 35 minutes after 2 or 3 games and we are going to continue to be embarrassing. Clifford still riding Al even when he is hobbled to the point of being unplayable shows how big of a stooge he is.

I have generally been in favor of not firing Clifford simply for the sake of continuity but I am over that. I would let Mark Price finish out the season and possibly next until we can find someone actually worth moving forward with if he turns out not to be. I don't think another coaching shakeup will be THAT big of a deal if we do it this way and I certainly don't think it would set us back more than continuing with someone who is already clearly not going to get it done.

[LamarMatic7]

Maybe getting Detroit's pick this past year wasn't a blessing. What was it protected this year? We could really use ours and theirs this year.

It was only top 1 protected. So basically unprotected.

Could have literally been looking at potentially a top 5 along with our pick which looks like it might be around 8.

Mudiay and Lamar's cousin would be nice.

haha, you and Sachmo, again with the "cousin".

[BobsBuddy]

Naturally folks want Clifford's Head,but I would not fire him until we get rid of our biggest problems. At 10-22 I would blow this team up now and not wait until we are 15-40. I'm not sure exactly when the trade deadline is,but this would be my strategy for this season.

Al Jefferson----Shut him down now and get him healthy...then let him put up some more 20-10 games and trade him. Start Biz and then bring back Vonleh after two weeks in D-League to backup. Trade targets..Spencer Hawes LAC,Greg Monroe (S+T)Det, or Perkins expiring+Adams OKC.

Kemba---is actually losing games for us while looking great....puts up way too many shots..not a complete point guard..Trade him now for more complete point guard...Trade targets....Eric Bledsoe PHX, Deron Williams BRK, or Wroten+ Richardsons Expiring PHIL.

Lance---- Has the biggest upside to be a superstar for us,but unfortunately unless MJ can get in his head is a better fit in Denver.Our
trade target is Afflalo Den, Jimmy Butler CHG, or possibly Tim Hardaway JR + Burgani Expiring NYK

MKG---Keep unless you could trade him/Lance for Chandler/Afflalo DEN

Cody----Keep

IT'S TIME...IF we wait too long the value of these players will go down.

[W_HAMILTON]

I'm not for blowing this team up, but if you do, I don't see how you can't just blow IT ALL UP: the coach, Cho, everybody. It's not like this team is a bunch of aging veterans like Brooklyn -- most of our important players are young guys, young guys that WE brought in. Walker, Stephenson, MKG, Zeller, Biyombo, Vonleh, Hairston, Taylor -- hell, that's almost half the roster that's ~25 or under. How $&@*$# up do you have to be to blow up what's essentially a rebuild?

I'm not at that point where I doubt all our young talent, and I think it's much more severe to start trading away guys that you just went through rebuilding to get when there are other obvious problems out there (Clifford for one, and to a lesser extent, Cho). Before we start getting rid of players we think are problems -- especially young players at that -- we need to get rid of the coaching/management that most definitely ARE the problems. You can't blow this team up and keep Clifford/Cho, that makes no sense. And, if you have to get rid of them, I'd rather we get rid of them first rather than give up on young talent that probably could/will still prosper in this league.

[Hornet Mania]

I'm not for blowing this team up, but if you do, I don't see how you can't just blow IT ALL UP: the coach, Cho, everybody. It's not like this team is a bunch of aging veterans like Brooklyn -- most of our important players are young guys, young guys that WE brought in. Walker, Stephenson, MKG, Zeller, Biyombo, Vonleh, Hairston, Taylor -- hell, that's almost half the roster that's ~25 or under. How $&@*$# up do you have to be to blow up what's essentially a rebuild?

I'm not at that point where I doubt all our young talent, and I think it's much more severe to start trading away guys that you just went through rebuilding to get when there are other obvious problems out there (Clifford for one, and to a lesser extent, Cho). Before we start getting rid of players we think are problems -- especially young players at that -- we need to get rid of the coaching/management that most definitely ARE the problems. You can't blow this team up and keep Clifford/Cho, that makes no sense. And, if you have to get rid of them, I'd rather we get rid of them first rather than give up on young talent that probably could/will still prosper in this league.

This is dead-on, well said. I'm glad I missed the game last night, I would have been right there melting down with everyone else on this thread. We have way too many young guys on this roster to blow it all up. If we need to make a change then start by trading Al, or at the very least not extending him this summer. I'm inching more and more towards the fire Clifford bandwagon, the only thing that makes me hesitant is how much all the players seem to like him. I'd still much rather strong-arm him into hiring an offensive coordinator/sets out of timeout specialist, then see what happens next year. Cho is whatever, he's more solid than the obvious train wrecks (Billy King, whatever the Kings' wussy boot-licker's name is, etc.) and does well in trades but basically bats a little below .500 in the draft. The Al/Cliff/Cho trio need to the only ones cut loose if someone has to fall on the sword for this group, the young guys are just developing players in a god awful situation.

I think all of our young guys (and by that I mean Kemba/MKG/Zeller/Biz/Vonleh/PJ) have a future in the league and will continue to improve in future seasons. None of them are a finished product, how many guys peak at 24yo? Or 22? If we trade Zeller/Biz/MKG/PJ I would bet they come back to haunt us in future seasons and whatever we got in return would probably be crap. All of these guys would look better on a team with real offensive sets, or at a pace that suits our team's athleticism (aside from Al, of course), or under a coach who believes defensive specialists can play in crunch time. I'd very much like to see what happens to them over the next few years in a better situation. We're not going to improve out talent by trading these players, unfortunately. Therefore that should not be an option. I am really nervous that Cho or Clifford, feeling like they're halfway to the unemployment line, will make a rash decision and rob us of valuable assets in future seasons that the next regime can actually utilize.

(steps down from soapbox)

[TheKingofSting]

Finally the Cho and Clifford wagon grows!

[BobsBuddy]

Guys, our starting unit has sucked thru 32 games.Cho has a proven track record and Clifford just does not have the right players. NOW with Al hurt and not due back until February,We may miss the window to trade him
this season. If we do get the chance then to trade him for Hawes LAC or another expiring contract + young center OKC ,we need to do it. As for Lance maybe we can couple him with Al and bring back more of a young core that can start next season. As for Kemba and BROB, both must distribute the ball more for us to win. IF not we need to find at least 1 point guard who is interested in assists first. That's what I mean by blowing this team up. The fundamentals of passing to the open man are missing both inside and outside the paint. Rebounding is not a priority. WE are a run and gun team.

[W_HAMILTON]

:banghead: Guys, our starting unit has sucked thru 32 games.Cho has a proven track record and Clifford just does not have the right players. NOW with Al hurt and not due back until February,We may miss the window to trade him
this season. If we do get the chance then to trade him for Hawes LAC or another expiring contract + young center OKC ,we need to do it. As for Lance maybe we can couple him with Al and bring back more of a young core that can start next season. As for Kemba and BROB, both must distribute the ball more for us to win. IF not we need to find at least 1 point guard who is interested in assists first. That's what I mean by blowing this team up. The fundamentals of passing to the open man are missing both inside and outside the paint. Rebounding is not a priority. WE are a run and gun team.

(1) You can't say "Clifford just does not have the right players" while defending Cho at the same time.

(2) Clifford has shown some glaring problems that I don't think will be helped by different players. Different players may mask his inabilities, but the inabilities will still remain. If he can adapt and fix some of his stubborn ways, sure, try him out a bit longer, but if not, he needs to go. He doesn't have the type of resume where you can just keep giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[TheKingofSting]

We may as well stick with Cliff through this season for the tank but I don't want Cho making our next draft pick.