Is this Knicks team worse than the Isiah teams?

SaintofKillers · Post #21 » by **SaintofKillers** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:40 am

The Isaiah teams were SUPER STACKED but mostly redundant and poorly constructed.

I think if Melo had at least the 2006 Eddy Curry, they would have a slightly better record than they have now. As it stands, the Phil Jackson version is largely devoid of any talent. In most nights, Tim Hardaway Jr. seems like their 2nd best player — which is just sad.

QueenzAllDay · Post #22 » by **QueenzAllDay** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:17 am

Yup, this is absolutely the worst team in Knicks history by far.

Those Isiah teams were bad but they were fun to watch even for a team competing for an 8th seed. The key being that we were actually competing in a lot of those games and made some great memories in others. A lot of fan favorites as well.

There is nothing fun or likable about the way this team plays each game. It's gotten to the point where we have lost by so many different ways now its getting repetitive and boring. The only light at the end of the tunnel is this upcoming offseason where we will land a high pick and most of the contracts are gone.

Post #23 » by **Jakay** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:52 am

This is what the Knicks had to do though. With how long this cycle of garbage has gone on, it inevitably needed to burn itself to the ground before it can build a new foundation.

Honestly, there's no point in evaluating the team's success for the next two years when it's just a big mess and the only way out is to stay the course for a bit.

I'm sure it sucks to be a Knicks fan right now, but lots of franchises go through this. Maybe they can develop that Philly "yeah we suck, and we love it" mentality.

Nazrmohamed · Post #24 » by **Nazrmohamed** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:37 pm

Danchan wrote:Could have had Lowry for Felton.

instead they get... a 20 win season.

We better not win 20 games. 13 tops

Raptor_Guy · Post #25 » by **Raptor_Guy** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:51 pm

I still love that they fired their GM after winning a playoff round for the first time in 13 years because it wasn't good enough

jowglenn · Post #26 » by **jowglenn** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:33 pm

Thomas's Knicks teams were terrible because of chemistry and bad basketball ideas. His drafting was always solid, but he traded away many picks for guys like Eddy Curry. He signed bad free agents and overpaid the ones he signed. He made frequent character and fit misjudgments - Curry, Zach Randolph, Marbury, Steve Francis - the list continues with any number of other disasters.

In many ways, this whole situation now is still tied back to Isaiah. Donnie Walsh took over a dumpster fire, and signing Amare to that huge contract was sort of a necessity for them. Trading all their youth assets for Carmelo became a necessity. They made the playoffs a few times. That's a huge upgrade from the Isiah Thomas years.

Yeah, they're in trouble now, but not as much as people think. Most of the big money expires, they'll have a high pick and tons of cap space in 2015 and/or 2016, and New York, despite whatever is going on this year, is still a big free agent destination.

ingvald · Post #27 » by **ingvald** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:49 pm

This Knicks team is terrible because of how poorly managed it was before Phil. I suppose he could've tried to trade away the horrible contracts for less bad/longer contracts but the plan is to ride out the year and let the contracts expire. They've got $40M on the books for next season so the plan isn't necessarily a bad one. Carmelo's contract may not look so bad down the road, depending on how much the cap jumps. Personally, I think Calderon at $7+M is a bigger problem going forward.

I've got to give Phil credit for being patient and not looking for a quick fix. That being said, there don't appear to be any top end FAs available next year but if they can sign solid vets who fit the system and hit with their draft pick, they can compete again in a year or two.

MaxZaslofskyJr · Post #28 » by **MaxZaslofskyJr** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:52 pm

Equally horrendous.

Prokorov · Post #29 » by **Prokorov** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:35 pm

ardee wrote:The level of dysfunction and the lack of talent... Oh my.

They started Calderon, Hardaway, Wear, Jason Smith and Cole Adrich after Carmelo went down

I just marvel at how they've destroyed a team that won 55 games 18 months ago.

What Isiah did was take a bad team and make it worse. The current management has taken a good team and torn it apart until nothing is left but this... thing.

no.

This team isnt saddled with awful contracts and it has its own first round pick.

knicks are actually in decent shape moving forward

OhioGuy216 · Post #30 » by **OhioGuy216** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:45 pm

Yes indeed. Carmelo is one of the biggest cancers to any team in the NBA. Nobody will ever win with him.

Post #31 » by **DuckIII** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:13 pm

This team probably sucks in real time worse than Thomas' teams. But Thomas' teams sucked and had no chance to improve due to the hideous roster construction and financial decisions.

This team, granted, has one really bad contract. But it is otherwise flexible and built with the future in mind. If you are a Knicks' fan, you have to be far happier with where this team is than where Thomas' had them.

CanadianKnicksFan · Post #32 » by **CanadianKnicksFan** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:27 pm

Why do people always say they could have had both Alridge and Noha if it wasn't for the Curry deal???

If we drafted Aldridge, we would've had more wins, which means noha wouldn't have been available.

CanadianKnicksFan · Post #33 » by **CanadianKnicksFan** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:34 pm

Danchan wrote:Could have had Lowry for Felton.

instead they get... a 20 win season.

You forgot also a 2015 first round pick ( which is looking to be top 3 at the moment ) and either Shump or Timmy.

waya · Post #34 » by **waya** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:10 pm

DuckIII wrote:This team probably sucks in real time worse than Thomas' teams. But Thomas' teams sucked and had no chance to improve due to the hideous roster construction and financial decisions.

This team, granted, has one really bad contract. But it is otherwise flexible and built with the future in mind. If you are a Knicks' fan, you have to be far happier with where this team is than where Thomas' had them.

^ This guy gets why I'm not on suicide watch this season. I went into this season thinking "Hey, at least if we suck we'll have a lottery pick and more than half the team comes off the books"

panthermark · Post #35 » by **panthermark** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:39 pm

At least there is "some" light at the end of the tunnel with this team. But IMO Phil screwed up. He let his ego get in the way (or maybe it was Melo that screwed things up). Phil should have S&T'd Melo to the Bulls for Boozer and picks. The Knicks would have basically had an empty roster next year, and more picks.

The other thing is that I'm not sold on the coach. Not that he is a bad coach.....but that the triangle is tough to run unless you have GOAT level players. The timing seems rough in terms of getting a team on track to run the triangle if the team is starting from scratch next year.

symbiotic · Post #36 » by **symbiotic** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:33 pm

Being a Knick fan my whole life, I just might quit if the Knicks trade ANOTHER FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK, and just focus more on career & social life.

Huskies1947 · Post #37 » by **Huskies1947** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:00 pm

I have a feeling Phil Jackson will fail as the President of the Knicks. It's not like he has MJ, Pippen, Kobe and Shaq to bail him out. I know he's won championships but he's had stacked teams through out his coaching career.

The Knicks problems is that they hire new unproven management or management that has a bad track record. After Phil fails they will probably hire Bryan Colangelo and he'll turn the team into Euro-Knicks.

The Raptors did the same thing ... Basically the Knicks are like an expansion franchise with lots of money.

Scalabrine · Post #38 » by **Scalabrine** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:12 pm

MotownMadness wrote:Signing Melo to that ridiculous contract is going to kill them for the next five years. They had a nice oppurtunity to darft a nice oppurtunty to just leylt him go and move on. They should still get a nice player out of the draft this year but they could have had alot of cash this summer to really fill out a nice complementing roster this summer from the bench to the starting unit. They need to hope like hell for Okafor right now.

Every team wanted to sign him to that deal. It's not that ridiculous.

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Nils_the_Clean · Post #39 » by **Nils_the_Clean** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:14 pm

This is the worst Knick team ever.

panthermark · Post #40 » by **panthermark** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:31 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:Signing Melo to that ridiculous contract is going to kill them for the next five years. They had a nice oppurtunity to darft a nice oppurtunty to just leylt him go and move on. They should still get a nice player out of the draft this year but they could have had alot of cash this summer to really fill out a nice complementing roster this summer from the bench to the starting unit. They need to hope like hell for Okafor right now.

Every team wanted to sign him to that deal. It's not that ridiculous.

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That isn't true.
He would have only make sense on about 6 teams in the league....mostly big cities (markets/dollars) in win now mode.