NBA ChoK16 - the Rich Cho Thread

KembaWalker · Post #421 » by **KembaWalker** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 4:34 pm

I'm still not even sure if we have a drafting issue or a player development issue. The only young player I've ever seen measurably improve his game here is Crash. I guess that is all under the scope of Chos responsibility anyway.

MasterIchiro · Post #422 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 4:45 pm

If Cho were to field offers for all of his lottery picks, could he use any single one of them to reenter the lottery at this point?

Biz for a lottery pick?
Cody for a lottery pick?
MKG for a lottery pick?
Vonleh for a lottery pick?

Post #423 » by **JDR720** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 4:48 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:If Cho were to field offers for all of his lottery picks, could he use any single one of them to reenter the lottery at this point?

Biz for a lottery pick?
Cody for a lottery pick?
MKG for a lottery pick?
Vonleh for a lottery pick?

vonleh yes
MKG yes
Cody doubt it, still get a 1st though
Biz, not lotto but a 1st to the right team

MasterIchiro · Post #424 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 4:49 pm

JDR720 wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:If Cho were to field offers for all of his lottery picks, could he use any single one of them to reenter the lottery at this point?

Biz for a lottery pick?
Cody for a lottery pick?
MKG for a lottery pick?
Vonleh for a lottery pick?

vonleh yes
MKG yes
Cody doubt it, still get a 1st though
Biz, not lotto but a 1st to the right team

I think there is no way in hell MKG gets Cho back into the lottery. Not a chance.

MasterIchiro · Post #425 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 4:49 pm

I'm not even sure about Vonleh.

catch20two · Post #426 » by **catch20two** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 6:21 pm

KembaWalker wrote:I'm still not even sure if we have a drafting issue or a player development issue. The only young player I've ever seen measurably improve his game here is Crash. I guess that is all under the scope of Chos responsibility anyway.

It's definitely a player development issue, something I've been hinting at for a few years now, where I questioned Stephen Silas since player development was supposed to be his area of specialty but I got a lot of backlash for that. Might as well call Mark Price our head of development instead of Silas since both MKG and Kemba have raved about Price helping them improve but I never heard a story with this team about Silas except him going overseas with Jeff Taylor bum ass during the offseason only to watch him return in his sophomore season worse than he was in his rookie year.

MKGsMotor · Post #427 » by **MKGsMotor** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 6:24 pm

Cody could get a late 1st. Vonleh could get a mid first. Biz could get a second rounder. MKG could probably get a late lottery pick.

probably signs of bad drafting.

MKGsMotor · Post #428 » by **MKGsMotor** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 6:26 pm

Honestly, everyone we have drafted in the past four drafts has a real value ten spots lower than we drafted them, except MJs pick Kemba who has a value 2-3 spots higher.

fire Cho.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #429 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 6:50 pm

Part of that is small market and part is lack of player development and another part is Cliff. Zeller's value might be lower without the PT he got last year. MKG's value would likely be higher with a coach that used him differently. Etc.

I don't like the draft hindsight game very much. Where I think you can most fairly go after Cho is teambuilding. Did he build a functional team? So far it's looking like no, he has not. I think that it's pretty fair to go after Cho for stuff this summer like his role in McBob walking.

Just don't forget, that if Cho goes so does Cliff, and potentially guys like Kemba might try to force a trace rather than go through massive uncertainty again.

Post #430 » by **JDR720** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 6:59 pm

If Cho gets canned, who do you want to be the new GM? I dont know names but I would go after someone from the Mavs,Spurs or another team with a long history of good management.

MasterIchiro · Post #431 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 8:13 pm

MKGsMotor wrote:Cody could get a late 1st. Vonleh could get a mid first. Biz could get a second rounder. MKG could probably get a late lottery pick.

probably signs of bad drafting.

This seems like a fair assessment, except I would put MKG's value just out of the lottery.

Post #432 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 8:17 pm

So now we've switched from declaring how terrible Al is and how he was holding this team back to talking about how terrible the other pieces are.

Our two marquee free agent signings both started the season injured, have looked slow in what time they got and now are both sitting on the sidelines nursing said injuries. Color me shocked that we're struggling.

Post #433 » by **BigSlam** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 8:28 pm

Rather than looking at guys I wanted to draft (because that's sliding doors and it's pointless doing that) I'd rather look at guys I really, really, really did not want to draft:

2011: Derrick Williams, Jan Vesely, Brandon Knight, Jimmer Fredette, Donatas Motiejunas
2012: Dion Waiters, Austin Rivers, Royce White, Fab Melo
2013: Anthony Bennett, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel, Ben McLemore
2014: Aaron Gordon, Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, James Young

LamarMatic7 · Post #434 » by **LamarMatic7** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 8:43 pm

I've noticed that people like to make fun of those who were willing to draft Len.

He had a horrid first year because of injuries, but he looks like a competent big this season. I think he'll have a career just as good as Cody's. I suppose that the caveat of him being injury-prone is there though.

MKGsMotor · Post #435 » by **MKGsMotor** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 8:48 pm

I blame Cho for not putting a competent wing shooter in the lineup. We've needed that for like five years now. A spot up shooter, not Gary Ben Gordon Neal or pj chuck whatever Hairston. We start hobe and mkg who has a jump shot impediment, while al eats the ball down low and often needs to kick it back out. This problem baffles me. Yea Cho tries with afflalo and Hayward (shooter to a certain point), but he gets paid to freaking DO not try. I would literally start Anthony morrow or Danny green at 2 and I think it would help us a lot. Marvin isn't the answer either because of his pairing with Al on defense.

MasterIchiro · Post #436 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 9:01 pm

MKGsMotor wrote:I blame Cho for not putting a competent wing shooter in the lineup. We've needed that for like five years now. A spot up shooter, not Gary Ben Gordon Neal or pj chuck whatever Hairston. We start hobe and mkg who has a jump shot impediment, while al eats the ball down low and often needs to kick it back out. This problem baffles me. Yea Cho tries with afflalo and Hayward (shooter to a certain point), but he gets paid to freaking DO not try. I would literally start Anthony morrow or Danny green at 2 and I think it would help us a lot. Marvin isn't the answer either because of his pairing with Al on defense.

I agree this is Cho's biggest failure. And while he can't control restricted free agents (Gordon) or trades (Afflalo) he has been in a position 3-4 consecutive years in the draft to select at least one range shooter to make the roster fit together better. He has come up empty time and time again. Even in free agency, instead of going for Mayo, he opted for Henderson.

The biggest problem on the team is lack of interior defense. Now that Al is out and the team gets to play more uptempo to its style, we still see the glaring deficiencies covered up by Al's offense.

The best part of Al being out is we get a better look at Cho. This team is not well built and relies too much on a predictable offense built around a declining player. The lack of shooting has always got on my nerves - it's the reason why I've been a skeptic of MKG. The fact Cho followed that up by talking MJ down from McLemore is revolting to the very core. It was like he was hearing the early whispers on MKG's shot and decided to double down on his MKG-Biz blueprint - character - winner - hustle - energy - defense…and took Zeller.

MJ can't fire this dork soon enough.

Post #437 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 9:35 pm

Roberts, Marvin, Hairston and Lance were all added last off-season at least in part to help address our need for perimeter shooting. Neal was traded for for the same reason. That's five guys who projected to have respectable outside shooting.

Bitch about his drafting all you want, but don't act like he hasn't made a concerted effort to improve our perimeter shooting.

LamarMatic7 · Post #438 » by **LamarMatic7** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 9:39 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Roberts, Marvin, Hairston and Lance were all added last off-season at least in part to help address our need for perimeter shooting. Neal was traded for for the same reason. That's five guys who projected to have respectable outside shooting.

Bitch about his drafting all you want, but don't act like he hasn't made a concerted effort to improve our perimeter shooting.

The thing is that the one who plays the most important role out of all of those guys is Lance. And he is not a good shooter.

I guess it depends on what you define as "respectable", but calling him such doesn't put a high ceiling on being called one.

Post #439 » by **yosemiteben** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 9:56 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Roberts, Marvin, Hairston and Lance were all added last off-season at least in part to help address our need for perimeter shooting. Neal was traded for for the same reason. That's five guys who projected to have respectable outside shooting.

Bitch about his drafting all you want, but don't act like he hasn't made a concerted effort to improve our perimeter shooting.

The thing is that the one who plays the most important role out of all of those guys is Lance. And he is not a good shooter.

I guess it depends on what you define as "respectable", but calling him such doesn't put a high ceiling on being called one.

I mean that's fair, but he would have been one of the better outside shooters on our team last season, and that's just one of five guys that Cho added. Doesn't negate the point IMO.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #440 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 10:21 pm

Shooting guards with size & a great outside shot don't exactly grow on trees. I agree that it's what this team has needed, but it's not like Cho hasn't done anything there. In addition to what yosemityeben and others have said, said Beal is about the same size a Neal whom we all agree is undersized. McLemore wasn't worth the spot where the team was drafting. The draft wasn't a sure shot to save our SG woes. On top of that for Cho's early years it did indeed look like Hendo was working on his 3 point shot. The team took the risk that the guy they had would develop to fit need and it didn't pay off.

To flip this, what if:
* Hendo had developed a reliable 3 point shot and actually took 5 or so a game?
* MKG had developed his shot last summer instead of this one and added a corner 3 this summer?
* Zeller was able to make the 3's he hits in warmups in actual live game situations?

You can argue that Cho's evaluations might have been off, you can argue that the team has failed to develop players properly, and you can argue that the players haven't done as much as we wish they had. I'm not sure that you can place the blame for all that just on Cho.

Early on he left development to the coaching staff, and probably had to with Higgens as his boss. I honestly think that last year he finally stepped in himself with the hiring of specific development coaches.