NBA ChoK16 - the Rich Cho Thread

Post #441 » by **JDR720** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 10:42 pm

This team has shooting, but not enough quality/consistent shooters.

Neal is a career 39% 3pt shooter he is at 32% this season.
PJ shot 36% in the D-League while shooting 8 a game, he is at 28% this season.
Brian is a career 37% 3pt shooter, he is at 36% this season.
Marv is a career 33% 3pt shooter, he is at 37% this season.

Those are our shooters, all but 1 of them (marv) is shooting under their normal averages and they are all negatives if they aren' t shooting well.

Now to the rest of the team. (just perimeter guys)

Kemba is a career 32% 3pt shooter, he is at 32% this season.
Gerald is a career 30% 3pt shooter he is at 31% this season.
Lance is a career 31% 3pt shooter he is at 15% this season.
MKG doesn't shoot threes.

Noah might be a good shooter going off his 3pt shooting in college and limited time in the NBA/D-League.

MasterIchiro · Post #442 » by **MasterIchiro** » Thu Jan 1, 2015 10:55 pm

The shooters Cho brought in are not starters. They are bench shooters and none of them is elite.

Post #443 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 12:38 am

MasterIchiro wrote:The shooters Cho brought in are not starters. They are bench shooters and none of them is elite.

Well earlier someone said he hadn't added "at least one range shooter to make the roster fit together better."

In fact he's added what projected to be four above average perimeter shooters just this past offseason, plus he traded for one last year. Just to state the obvious, that's almost half the active roster.

You are correct that he didn't add an elite perimeter shooter (though Mayo is hardly that). However, I think he also clearly is aware of our need for perimeter shooting, and ignoring all of his attempts to address that and then framing him as unaware of our team's needs is disingenuous IMO. I also don't think we are having this conversation if Utah didn't match for Hayward.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #444 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 3:44 am

yosemiteben wrote:I also don't think we are having this conversation if Utah didn't match for Hayward.

Truth. Hayward would have helped a lot of things. Season might still have been a bit bumpy with "distracted" Kemba and out of shape / injured Al, but we wouldn't be hearing as much about flawed roster construction or lack of outside shooting.

Post #445 » by **fatlever** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 3:53 am

its true that cho has signed, traded for and drafted several shooters in the past year, but sadly we dont have a single 3pt shooter on the roster that is also at least average defensively. thats the real problem. we have exactly 0 two way players - with kemba and henderson being the closest thing we have to being two way players.

Post #446 » by **fatlever** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 4:13 am

i'll throw my 2 cents in the "who i would have drafted" discussion.

2011
#7 - i probably would have gone with brandon knight with this pick. he had been projected as a top 5 pick most of the year and was the top pg prospect in the draft. we desperately needed a pg since augustin was a failure.

#9 - there were 3 wings in our range that were all being discussed here at length - kawhi leonard, alex burks and klay thompson. leonard was the guy with seemingly the lowest ceiling, but the best defender and most ready, burks was the one who seemingly had the skills to play with the ball in his hands and klay was the shooter with the off-court baggage. i liked all 3 of these guys and probably would have been ok with any of them. i'd like to think that if i was gm and i had a chance to see klay shoot in person i would have probably loved him since i have such a soft spot for shooters, however passing on leonard might have been really tough since he was projected as the best of the 3 for most of the season. i think burks would have been 3rd on my list.

2012
#2 - i was all over the place for this pick and in the end i would have probably gotten in wrong. the two guys i would not have picked - lillard and drummond, turned out the be the best. no way i'd take lillard after picking knight the previous season and i was scared to death of drummond, although with no biz on the roster, maybe i would have been a little more willing to gamble on a raw center. in the end i probably would have fallen for either thomas robinson or bradley beal. barnes and mkg probably wouldnt be in consideration if i just selected leonard the year before. i just pray that somebody in my scouting staff would have talked me out of robinson. and maybe after seeing him in person, i'd have quickly changed my mind.

2013
#4 - its no secret i was one of the few who really liked zeller at #4, even after he had fallen on most mocks. i had written mclemore off after his lackluster spring and reports about his inner circle surfacing. i was very intrigued by len, but that pre-draft foot injury would have scared me to death. it would have come down to nerlens noel or zeller. if my team doctors were able to get some good info on noel, he probably would have been my pick, if not zeller.

2014
#9 - my roster, like cho's seriously lacks shooters. i would have zeroed in on doug mcdermott and nik stauskus early in the draft process. having spent two picks on robinson and noel, i would have probably stayed away from vonleh. i would have jumped on smart or randle if they fell, but they didnt. stauskas was gone by 9, so i would have taken mcdermott and been thrilled.

#24 i would have been completely on board with pj hairston as 24 assuming my intel about his personal life came back ok. if not, napier would have been my pick.

so in the end we have

pg: knight
sg: hairston
sf: leonard, mcdermott
pf: robinson
c: noel

yeah, not that great, but at least i got leonard out of it. then again, you have to think that leonard wouldnt be the same player if he had not spent his first 3 years with the spurs.

Post #447 » by **Diop** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 4:29 am

fatlever wrote:i'll throw my 2 cents in the "who i would have drafted" discussion.

2011
#7 - i probably would have gone with brandon knight with this pick. he had been projected as a top 5 pick most of the year and was the top pg prospect in the draft. we desperately needed a pg since augustin was a failure.

I didn't think Dj was considered a failure by that stage yet.
in 2010-11 he averaged 15.4pts, 6.5 assists with 2 turnovers. wasnt that bad, especially when Silas took over as coach from Brown.

I thought it was the next year after they drafted Kemba that he totally lost his ****. weak minded fool.

Post #448 » by **fatlever** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 4:46 am

hmm... good point about dj. that might change everything, even though i never liked dj, i might not have wanted to burn another top 10 pick on a pg so soon. so maybe i dont take knight at 7. maybe i go with leonard and klay. i still dont think i would have had the guts to draft lillard at 2 the next year though, but pgs are easy to find these days.

Post #449 » by **Diop** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 5:01 am

fatlever wrote:hmm... good point about dj. that might change everything, even though i never liked dj, i might not have wanted to burn another top 10 pick on a pg so soon. so maybe i dont take knight at 7. maybe i go with leonard and klay. i still dont think i would have had the guts to draft lillard at 2 the next year though, but pgs are easy to find these days.

that was my thinking and because I wanted to trade the number 2 pick for 4 and 24, I could have easily seen myself luck into a good draft. Lillard apparently wowed in workouts, so if you were a gm looking for a pg he might have changed your mind.

Liver_Pooty · Post #450 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 5:04 am

Lillard was never going top 5 on any mock drafts. Foolish to try to draft him at 2 or 4

Liver_Pooty · Post #451 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 5:06 am

I'd also rather have MKG or Drummond. Drummond is Deandre Jordan made over, but worse. Below averge on defense.

Post #452 » by **Diop** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 5:08 am

Portland were desperate to get him after a try out. who knows.

Braggins · Post #453 » by **Braggins** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 7:14 am

If we drafted Drummond he would fighting with Biz for scrap minutes at backup center. #clifford

I think Cho's worst move was hiring Steve Clifford.

Cho has been pretty good overall in my opinion (questionable drafting) but this last off-season was just horrible. I actually still think signing Lance was a good move although it seems to be more of a Jordan thing. However, signing Marvin, Roberts, and Maxiell is just awful. Those signings are so bad that I can't even begin to wrap my head around how they happened. I still don't understand how Maxiell hasn't been cut. I'm pretty sure most of us probably know a guy at our local rec center or YMCA that is as good as he is.

Liver_Pooty · Post #454 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 7:22 am

Clifford is probably the best thing Cho has done.

Braggins · Post #455 » by **Braggins** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 7:33 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:Clifford is probably the best thing Cho has done.

I'm very interested to see what he does during this stretch without Al.

I'm not sure why you are so sold on Clifford. He makes blunder after blunder and never seems to learn from his mistakes. He is one of the worst in-game coaches I have ever seen in the NBA. He is completely unproven and hasn't done anything to warrant being considered a good coach.

Liver_Pooty · Post #456 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 7:39 am

Braggins wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:Clifford is probably the best thing Cho has done.

I'm very interested to see what he does during this stretch without Al.

I'm not sure why you are so sold on Clifford. He makes blunder after blunder and never seems to learn from his mistakes. He is one of the worst in-game coaches I have ever seen in the NBA. He is completely unproven and hasn't done anything to warrant being considered a good coach.

His peers disagree with you. He'll be alright. The team is terrible. Red Auerbach couldn't coach this mess.

Braggins · Post #457 » by **Braggins** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 7:50 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Braggins wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:Clifford is probably the best thing Cho has done.

I'm very interested to see what he does during this stretch without Al.

I'm not sure why you are so sold on Clifford. He makes blunder after blunder and never seems to learn from his mistakes. He is one of the worst in-game coaches I have ever seen in the NBA. He is completely unproven and hasn't done anything to warrant being considered a good coach.

His peers disagree with you. He'll be alright. The team is terrible. Red Auerbach couldn't coach this mess.

A lot of people disagree with me. I just don't see it at all. I see a poorly coached team and tons of obvious and sometimes downright absurd coaching errors.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #458 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 4:23 pm

I've worked with plenty of people like Cliff. Talented & stubborn folks who's peers all know that they generally know what they are doing. It's fine when these folks are right about things. It's generally a PITA when they are wrong since their stubbornness will not allow them to see it. Bottom line for me is that the stubbornness and inability to adjust makes Cliff the wrong person for this job. He's got PLENTY of good stuff going for him, but his hiring as HC here was a mistake.

Post #459 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 4:29 pm

He designed an offensive and defensive scheme around players that have not been healthy and a roster that has been in flux all season. Let's at least let this season play out before we decide he was a bad hire.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #460 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Fri Jan 2, 2015 6:55 pm

yosemiteben wrote:He designed an offensive and defensive scheme around players that have not been healthy and a roster that has been in flux all season. Let's at least let this season play out before we decide he was a bad hire.

I disagree. Not so much about your 'wait and see' but rather the notion that he designed an offensive and defensive scheme around the players he has. It's abundantly clear that Cliff is a system coach that needs a certain roster to make things work. He's pretty much the opposite of someone like Rick Carlisle.