Keep or trade the #1 pick?

[Nemesis21]

I would go with one of Mariota/Winston

[craig01]

I would be scared of taking Mariotta because to me, he's a systems QB surrounded by superior talent.

I think either QB is a huge risk...... and while it's possible both may turn out to be great down the road, being busts in both cases would not surprise me either.

If the Bucs don't trade the pick, which is probably what they should do, I would lean towards Williams and at least have an asset (DL) somewhere on the team that will give opponents trouble for years.

A QB at this point does not turn this team around, and drafting one may actually stunt any improvement for the foreseeable future.

JMO....

[Nemesis21]

The Bucs NEED a QB, either draft Mariota/Winston, ride another year with Glennon, or sign a FA like Mallett, Locker, Sanchez or go after Dalton who they Bengals may move. I'd rather go with Mariota/Winston they any of those other options.

[Nemesis21]

I'd like Lovie to hire Koetter as OC, but if the Bucs take Mariota, I hope they make a strong run at Oregon OC Scott Frost. He has 6 years experience in the system, 2 as the current HC's OC and 4 as WRs coach under Chip Kelly.

[craig01]

There is no question the Bucs need a QB.

Pragmatically though, this delays any real growth as a team from an overall talent standpoint.

If either of these QB's were named Andrew Luck, I'd be all for it. But I truly don't believe that either QB is going to be remotely close to Luck with regard to early development and success.

The Bucs are weak in too many areas besides at QB.

[Nemesis21]

There is no question the Bucs need a QB.

Pragmatically though, this delays any real growth as a team from an overall talent standpoint.

If either of these QB's were named Andrew Luck, I'd be all for it. But I truly don't believe that either QB is going to be remotely close to Luck with regard to early development and success.

The Bucs are weak in too many areas besides at QB.

So you ride with Glennon, or go after one of the FA's I mentioned??. Take a look at my off season thread, I rebuilt the O Line in draft and FA. I just think Lovie has to get his QB now, going another year with Glennon or one of the FA's is stalling IMO.

[Nemesis21]

I am much more afraid of Mariota, who is the product of the system they run and IMO he is basically a slightly better Kaepernick. Winston is the next Luck, people are severely underrating him due to the off field stuff and his play seeming not as good as last year.
First off he was found not guilty 3 times on the rape thing, the state attorney said himself he wasn't taking it to court in front of a jury because the accuser's story was never the same and there was 2 other men's DNA found on her private area and underwear. Now I'm not saying he didn't have sex with the girl, but what happened was ESPN ran with it and blew everything out of proportion, even today they are still trying to dig stuff up on him(we all know how SEC biased ESPN is).

Next people don't realize how much Jameis lost on defense, a lot of our star guys went on to the NFL. Our O Line was a major weakness the first half of the season(most of Jameis INTs this season were on tipped passes or the young WRs not finishing their routes)we lost a 3 yr starting Center who made all the line calls(he is currently starting for the Patriots as a rookie), so we had a RS SO Center the first half of the season who had less than 3 career starts coming into this season, our O Line was lost because of the loss of the leader and line calls on the O Line. Once our big freshman LT was ready, we moved Cam Erving to center and things were much better the 2nd half of the season.

Next, while he did still have Rashad Greene and Nick O'Leary, Jameis really missed Kelvin Benjamin(with Carolina Panthers), who we all know is a 6'5" 240 lb WR, with a terrific catch radius. It was evident that KB was a big loss in our passing game even with Greene and NOL still around.

And finally those who aren't die hard FSU fans, don't realize how great of a teammate Jameis Winston is. Go back to his freshman year when he red shirted and EJ was starting, even back then when a certain unit on the team wasn't playing well, you could see Jameis give the players a pep talk and coach them up, he has continued this during his 2 yrs as a starter. Go back and look at his half time speeches and tell me this guy isn't a good teammate, doesn't get his team to rally behind him and forget the past, but to keep fighting and playing until the end.

Bonus, unlike Mariota or any other QB in the draft, Jamies actually knows how to read a defense like, P Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Luck etc. Before coming to Tallahassee Jameis knew how to read defenses, he has a notebook from 6th and 7th grade of him breaking down defense, blitzes, cover 2, cover 3. Typically Mariota goes thru his first 2 reads, then runs. Not Jameis, Jameis is great vs the blitz and great at going thru all of his reads, and very great at using his check downs.


I understand he is still only 20 and has the off field issues, but I do think it's in the past and he could get in far less trouble or have far less opportunities for the off field stuff in Tampa as opposed to in New York City playing for the Jets.

[Nemesis21]

“The one thing I don’t see with him is the anticipation as a passer,’’ McShay said. “It’s just because in that offense there’s not a lot of opportunity to show that. Even [in the Rose Bowl] he missed several throws you have to make. No one’s perfect. Andrew Luck missed a bunch of throws, and Jameis Winston misses throws. But Marcus misses more of a higher percentage of intermediate and vertical throws than I’d like to see ideally.


“[Florida State quarterback] Jameis Winston, to me, is the better prospect,’’ McShay said in a conference call with the national media. “Marcus Mariota is still a very good prospect but needs developing. They both have a chance to be great. But they both come with red flags. Winston’s red flags are off the field.’’

But I can tell you, if off the field didn’t matter, and his personality there was no questions about it, I would say take Jameis Winston No. 1 and don’t look back if I were the Tampa Bay Bucs.’’

“With Winston, there’s very few cons when you talk about things between the lines,’’ McShay said. “Even in game preparation, inside the facility, all those type of things, he’s a very smart individual. He picks up football concepts very quickly. He knows how to go through progression reads. He’s comfortable in the pocket, can manipulate the pocket, he feels pressure coming. He’s not the quickest quarterback. But he’s mobile enough and strong enough to extend plays with his feet. He anticipates throws as well as any quarterback in the last couple of drafts.


“There are lots of guys that can go down to a field or go to the beach and throw 100 times and hit someone in the chest 100 times. But one of the hard parts about playing that position is when pressure is coming and or when the receiver is not where he’s going to be when he gets to that spot – can you make accurate throws? I consistently on tape see Jameis Winston with pressure in his face or when having to anticipate a throw and lead a receiver to a spot, make it accurately.’’

[craig01]

Mariotta is very overrated.

He may turn out to good at the next level, but he will be a project for sure. People forget he's surrounded with superior talent at every skill position, but when the talent level is comparable he was more than human.

The Bucs are crazy if they used the first pick on him. In fact, when the combines are completed I would be surprised if he is even a top ten pick.

[Nemesis21]

Mariotta is very overrated.

He may turn out to good at the next level, but he will be a project for sure. People forget he's surrounded with superior talent at every skill position, but when the talent level is comparable he was more than human.

The Bucs are crazy if they used the first pick on him. In fact, when the combines are completed I would be surprised if he is even a top ten pick.

I wouldn't be surprised if he stays at Oregon another year. Looks like Winston is ours, unless they Glazers don't sign off. Then we'll be looking at Leonard Williams and signing a FA QB or drafting someone like Hundley in round 2.

[denterprise]

If the Bucs want to take that next step and become a true contender in the next few years they need a franchise quarterback They need to keep the pick and take Winston.

[craig01]

I agree that the Bucs need a good QB.

They'll need to find one through the draft, but my gut tells me that Winston is not that guy at this time.

The Bucs need players in many different areas to turn things around. A rookie QB that has had issues is not going to do that.

[denterprise]

I hope the Bucs don't use the poor off field decisions of a teenage boy that is growing into a man against him. Many young men in their first few years of college do things they may not be proud of latter on in life. The majority do grow up and become leading citizens.

It is true the Bucs have many holes that need to be filled but when you have a chance to take a franchise quarterback you have to do it. The Bucs can still address some of their other needs this off season and next. This year's draft is their best opportunity to
acquirer a franchise quarterback.

[craig01]

Super Bowl QB's over the last 20 years.

Russell Wilson 3rd round
Flacco 18th pick 1st rd
Kaerpernick 2nd rd
Brady 6th rd
Rothlisberger 11th pick 1st rd
Rodgers 24thpick 1st rd
Bree's 2nd rd
Warner not drafted
Grossman first rd 22nd pick
Hassleback 6th rd
Delhomme not drafted
Gannon 4th rd
Johnson 6th rd
Collins 1st rd fifth pick
Differ 1st rd 6th pick
McNabb 1st rd second pick.

The only top pick QB's to play in the Super Bowl for the past 20 years are the Mannings.

Some notable top pick QB's that made it to a Super Bowl previously are Elway, Bradshaw, Namath, Plunkett, Aikman, Young, Bledsoe

Jmo, but I don't think Winston has the football pedigree that most of the first overall picks above do.

[craig01]

Here are some other notable overall first pick QB's

Sam Bradford
Vinny Testaverde
Tim Couch
Jeff George
David Carr
JaMarcus Russell

And not first overall but close to it

Ryan Leaf
Vince Young
Akili Smith

[Nemesis21]

Super Bowl QB's over the last 20 years.

Russell Wilson 3rd round
Flacco 18th pick 1st rd
Kaerpernick 2nd rd
Brady 6th rd
Rothlisberger 11th pick 1st rd
Rodgers 24thpick 1st rd
Bree's 2nd rd
Warner not drafted
Grossman first rd 22nd pick
Hassleback 6th rd
Delhomme not drafted
Gannon 4th rd
Johnson 6th rd
Collins 1st rd fifth pick
Differ 1st rd 6th pick
McNabb 1st rd second pick.

The only top pick QB's to play in the Super Bowl for the past 20 years are the Mannings.

Some notable top pick QB's that made it to a Super Bowl previously are Elway, Bradshaw, Namath, Plunkett, Aikman, Young, Bledsoe

Jmo, but I don't think Winston has the football pedigree that most of the first overall picks above do.

That's where you are wrong. You have to look past the off field stuff. Really. Strictly go by on field and leadership and he has all those qualities of the Mannings and other #1 picks.


edit, I'll also say this. Jameis will play in and win a Super Bowl in his career. I have no doubt.

[Nemesis21]

Here are some other notable overall first pick QB's

Sam Bradford
Vinny Testaverde
Tim Couch
Jeff George
David Carr
JaMarcus Russell

And not first overall but close to it

Ryan Leaf
Vince Young
Akili Smith

Don't forget about Luck, a #1 pick. Do you not think that he will not play in a Super Bowl??

[craig01]

All I am saying is that you don't need a "franchise QB" to win a Super Bowl.

Many of the Super Bowl winning QB's were not rated as an FZ QB when drafted.

What you need to win consistently really good offensive and defensive lines. They make everyone else more productive.

Again, it's just my opinion....but Winston is not the complete package that Luck was.

He is certainly the best QB on paper in this draft, but we all know through time that prospects on paper can be very unpredictable.

[Nemesis21]

All I am saying is that you don't need a "franchise QB" to win a Super Bowl.

Many of the Super Bowl winning QB's were not rated as an FZ QB when drafted.

What you need to win consistently really good offensive and defensive lines. They make everyone else more productive.

Again, it's just my opinion....but Winston is not the complete package that Luck was.

He is certainly the best QB on paper in this draft, but we all know through time that prospects on paper can be very unpredictable.

I have to disagree again. I really don't think you are looking past the off field issues. And you really need to. JW5 is the best QB prospect since Luck.

[Nemesis21]

From Todd McShay's Mock 2.0,

"From purely on the field, the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last ten years and there is nobody else in between," said McShay.