Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

[Context]

Dont be surprised if Melo gets traded...

[god shammgod]

Why does it matter whether you trade a pick or just use it on someone bad?

Knicks wasted a pick on Bargs, that much is very clear, but they also wasted a pick on lots of guys whom they drafted. Is there a difference really? Not so much.

The Bulls rarely trade their picks. But they wasted plenty of them. Tyrus Thomas, Snell, Teague, James Johnson, very possibly McDermott. In a way Rose may end up being a wasted top pick because of lady luck. Done at age 26/27 would be a disaster, and after they gave him a big deal. They may be "forced" to also give Jimmy Butler a big deal and he is a guy who has just had one offensive year above decency (granted it's way above so far). Butler as a good defender and shaky scorer at $17M would be bad. He's not assured of staying James Harden on O. He could become Avery Bradley at $17M. In a way that too would be "good picks gone bad" in a PG kind of way.

What I'm saying is it's hit & miss. Just accept that. We may swing and miss this year too with a top 4 pick and you can blame Phil -- and you will blame Phil -- but it's kind of like blaming a couple of dice.

Someone explain the double standards and uncritical thinking running rampant. Actually don't.

Picks are the currency of hope. They keep the fanbase engaged. Minny fans cling to this kind of hope. You pick a guy, make comparisons to great players, and argue about upside and potential. Some like doing this more than actually watching the games.

100% agree but if we look back on picks, they're a major gamble. Almost every GM has a hit & miss record. In fact the top 1st pick in the draft looks 50-50. So they give us hope and that's cool. Analytically, a lot end in nothing much or outright waste.

i don't disagree with this but that's a big part of our plan right now. we're depending on getting lucky.

[Deeeez Knicks]

phil is getting congratulated for recognizing the team sucks after the fact ? he has no choice but to tank now because it's the only way to salvage the season.

Phil should probably not be congratulated or bashed yet until we see what happens next offseason at least. Nobody is going to look back at Phil and think about all this garbage and second rounders that get moved around. Its going to come down to what he does with the cap space and draft pick.

[god shammgod]

phil is getting congratulated for recognizing the team sucks after the fact ? he has no choice but to tank now because it's the only way to salvage the season.

Phil should probably not be congratulated or bashed yet until we see what happens next offseason at least. Nobody is going to look back at Phil and think about all this garbage and second rounders that get moved around. Its going to come down to what he does with the cap space and draft pick.

absolutely agree. i guess some people just feel luckier then me.

[cgmw]

Dont be surprised if Melo gets traded...

I'd be surprised. Less surprised if we keep Melo and trade whoever's drafted #1.

[Workforce250]

Jackson was able to adjust with the times and current situation. Moving toward taking advantage of a pick, we can all agree is the best CURRENT move.
Arguing about Chandler is a rather ridiculous argument, that has been beaten to death and still manages to revive, like Jason from Halloween.

[bleedblue3303]

I am confused why people are happy. I like the idea of moving Shump and Smith but...
THe fact that Cleveland not us go that first rounder in the deal doesn't make sense to me. JR gonna be great 6th man on Cleveland. A boring city like Cleveland with no nightlife is exactly what that guy needed. Iman will be there starting 2 guard. And we couldn't get back OKC top 18 protected first round pick that they sent to Cleveland? Just would have preferred that pick heading our way.

[PMFJB]

Dont be surprised if Melo gets traded...

Carl?

[MKCATL]

Dont be surprised if Melo gets traded...

I agree with this somewhat, Melo is either onboard or not with Phils backup plan. I would think he is based on the comments he previously made about wanting to stay but behind the doers could be a different story to save face. Without Melo the hill is a lot steeper.

[Sprewell4Three]

phil is getting congratulated for recognizing the team sucks after the fact ? he has no choice but to tank now because it's the only way to salvage the season.

Stop it because if he didn't recognize that fact and started bringing contracts to appease you and try to get an 8th seed, you would still complain.

i don't want an 8th seed and i don't want to add long term salary. i gave up on this season a month ago. stop trying to think you know what i want. and your obsession with me is weird. you're a creepy motherf*cker.

No one is obsessed with your broke ***. Your ego is through the roof, just because you make snide comments doesn't prove that you have any knowledge of basketball.

[mpharris36]

[god shammgod]

Stop it because if he didn't recognize that fact and started bringing contracts to appease you and try to get an 8th seed, you would still complain.

i don't want an 8th seed and i don't want to add long term salary. i gave up on this season a month ago. stop trying to think you know what i want. and your obsession with me is weird. you're a creepy motherf*cker.

No one is obsessed with your broke ***. Your ego is through the roof, just because you make snide comments doesn't prove that you have any knowledge of basketball.

then keep my name out of your bitch mouth

[PMFJB]

Stop it because if he didn't recognize that fact and started bringing contracts to appease you and try to get an 8th seed, you would still complain.

i don't want an 8th seed and i don't want to add long term salary. i gave up on this season a month ago. stop trying to think you know what i want. and your obsession with me is weird. you're a creepy motherf*cker.

No one is obsessed with your broke ***. Your ego is through the roof, just because you make snide comments doesn't prove that you have any knowledge of basketball.

michaeljacksoneatingpopcorn.gif

[Sprewell4Three]

I am confused why people are happy. I like the idea of moving Shump and Smith but...
THe fact that Cleveland not us go that first rounder in the deal doesn't make sense to me. JR gonna be great 6th man on Cleveland. A boring city like Cleveland with no nightlife is exactly what that guy needed. Iman will be there starting 2 guard. And we couldn't get back OKC top 18 protected first round pick that they sent to Cleveland? Just would have preferred that pick heading our way.

Waiters has more value than Shump and JR. That's why he netted Cleveland a first round pick.
Cleveland wanted Shump but had to take on JR's bloated contract in the process.
In the off-season if we're able to net a all-star caliber player with the capspace, this trade worked for us.

[PMFJB]

i don't want an 8th seed and i don't want to add long term salary. i gave up on this season a month ago. stop trying to think you know what i want. and your obsession with me is weird. you're a creepy motherf*cker.

No one is obsessed with your broke ***. Your ego is through the roof, just because you make snide comments doesn't prove that you have any knowledge of basketball.

then keep my name out of your bitch mouth

very negative.

[bigfnjoe96]

[mpharris36]

this move would suggest calderon might be on the way out too (probably with timmy).

We would have about 27 million approx. to spend with cap holds and options. If you are able to find a trade partners for Timmy and Calderon that would save the knicks another 9 million off the cap next year.

THat would give them approx. 36 million of space to sign 2 max FA plus draft a top 3 pick.

People were right when it would be difficult to get a max FA to sign here. But Phil's plan might be to convince two. Maybe one guy is more willing to come if he knows another guy is coming to team up with Melo.

That would make the most sense right now to me.

[K_ick_God]

Picks are the currency of hope. They keep the fanbase engaged. Minny fans cling to this kind of hope. You pick a guy, make comparisons to great players, and argue about upside and potential. Some like doing this more than actually watching the games.

100% agree but if we look back on picks, they're a major gamble. Almost every GM has a hit & miss record. In fact the top 1st pick in the draft looks 50-50. So they give us hope and that's cool. Analytically, a lot end in nothing much or outright waste.

i don't disagree with this but that's a big part of our plan right now. we're depending on getting lucky.

I'd argue that every team is really. Duncan-Robinson launched the Spurs, and even picks like Parker were probably much more lucky than fans want to admit. Because everybody is looking for geniuses or idiots. We'll see if Presti and Buford keep pulling ish out where the sun don't shine. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do not.

[mpharris36]

some of you should go over to the sixers board, they are so upset. They believe Phil out tanked Hinkie.

[SelbyCobra]

phil is getting congratulated for recognizing the team sucks after the fact ? he has no choice but to tank now because it's the only way to salvage the season.

Yes? Because we've seen the results of not being able to recognize suckage quickly enough to regroup, and how it can drive a franchise, not just a season, into the ground.