Cavs/Knicks/OKC in 3 Way Trade Talks (JR+SHUMP TRADED TO CLE)

[StephNYKurry]

The only players I want are LMA/Gasol/Matthews/Dragic/Lopez.

I want nothing to do with Deandre, Milsap, a worse Melo in Tobias or Danny Green.

Butler

[ozwizard8]

so let me get this straight. You want to trade Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert 17 million for perkins 9 million. You would need to find 4 million more of filler which is tough because they wouldn't want to trade there young good guys like Jackson and Lamb.

But lets say you got a few fillers in the trade.

1 late first round pick is more valuable than Larkin, Early, Thanasis, 2019 2nd round pick and ridding two dead weight contracts of JR Smith and Raymond Felton.

GTFO!

you dont know any ****.

who is larkin? thanasis... yea so much value!! no one cares about them. early? he's not top 30 potential.

we lost our assets.
tyson chandler is top 10 center!
shumpert can be starter or good bench player in rookie contract.

we get rid of jr+felton contract and got worser calderon contract.
34 year old pg who cant defend and you expect him to learn triangle!!
he dont deserve 7.4m for a team targetin FA!

STFU!

You made a number of extreme statements but one thing stands out as just factually wrong -- where is Shumpert going to be on a rookie contract next year? He expires this year. But that's not even your silliest statement.

The Knicks have next to no assets, that's the point. Trading a pick for Bargs was terrible, trading a lot of our stuff for crap was terrible. Who was left? Shump has value to YOU. He's been a big disaster lately. I loved the guy and blame the Knicks but you don't get top value for a guy who has shown so little since his rookie season when he looked promising. Thud. That was the sound of Shump falling apart in almost every way.

JR is a bum. Everyone in the league knows he sucks and is not serious about being a good player. The fact that the Cavs even got him should make us think that their situation is at least somewhat unstable.



Tyson was not much of an asset. Maybe we could have gotten more but it's not clear. We'd have to have found an expiring and also gotten something back on top of that -- hard to do and find. If Rondo only gets a protected pick, then Tyson won't get much. Rondo is still a prime player who has led a team to a title. Tyson was a nice dirtywork big on a title ride on Dirk's coattails. Now Tyson is old. Protected pick for Tyson maybe, okay. Well a 2nd round pick and a protected first are not worlds and worlds apart so try to get some perspective.

You're hoodwinking yourself

jr+shumpert for nothing isnt good but i can accept it.
my points is dallas trade was fiasco.
bargnani trade was worser ok but dallas trade wasnt good one too.

we should send calderon and target 2 max players.
if you offer marc gasol+butler these players can be convinced by form big 3 with melo+top pick.
but if you ask for m.gasol to come here alone he'll probably pass.

ok send shumpert for jr.
sending chandler+felton shouldnt bring worser cap space for next years. probably even p.jackson regret on dallas trade but you guys defend that trade. some of you says 2nd round picks are better.
cole aldrich is better? if he is better he'll get bigger contract next year FA.(chandler 10m, cole aldrich 1m)

[Deeeez Knicks]

If we are lucky enough to draft Okafor, I'd go after a PF that can watch his back like Mislap, Taj Gibson, Amir Johnson, David West, etc. He's a special guy so we would need to be more careful on who to pair next to him, but a combo that works would pay off

Then use the most of whats left on the backcourt.

[PMFJB]

The only players I want are LMA/Gasol/Matthews/Dragic/Lopez.

I want nothing to do with Deandre, Milsap, a worse Melo in Tobias or Danny Green.

Butler

Yep forgot him. I definitely want him.
My ideal is we somehow trade Calderon and get Butler/LMA or Gasol. Pipe dream I know but hey.

[BurningRiver]

I have to say, since the Cavs have so much riding on how far they go in the playoffs, it's odd to me that they think JR will help but I guess they just want some scoring punch to replace Waiters.

JR is unclutch. He is scared of the big moment and starts spiraling from there. That said, a great player like Bron could really help him a lot. At least give him some guts the way MJ did to Pippen.

Bron will have to get him to cut down on terrible shots and mistakes but if anybody can do it, Bron can.

I think both players could have just potentially suffered from being overextended.

I'm actually surprised so many of you are so down on Smith but granted, I didn't have to watch him play every night.

One reason both players were appealing to Cleveland, most notably Smith, is their catch a shoot statistics. J.R. is one of the best catch and shoot SG's in the entire league. He ranked #4 in the entire NBA on catch and shoot 3's at 46.5%. That is crazy good. I think Shump was at 38.5%, which also is very serviceable.

As for Smith, NY seemed to have been trying to extend him as a full-time, main scoring option and that is just not who he is IMO. Or maybe he was just doing that on his own? I like him in an offense where he plays off the ball and gets to space the floor and shoot less contested shots. I like him less when he has to assert himself as a go to scorer.

Shump is kind of a mystery to me. He possesses the measurables and athleticism to be a much better defender but he has regressed a bit in that regard. I think he's another guy who can excel as a role player but was looked at more as a building block.

Who knows....I guess we'll see but I thought both guys were nice fits in Cleveland. I thought they were both players who could be additive on a better roster but just kind of got bogged down on a team rebuilding. I guess we'll see.

[ozwizard8]

S&T Timmy, Calderón, two 2nds to Orlando for Harris at 10 mil

Throw Max at Gasol or Aldridge

Draft mudiay or trade pick for a top flight PG

Contend.

if phil can manage to do that well then he is really PMFJB..

we should keep the pick.
i dont see any p.ewing or t.duncan comes from this draft but okafor/towns looks solid. they would be franchise players.

[mpharris36]

what about Jose Calderon, Tim Hardaway Jr, and the cavs 2019 2nd rounder for Reggie Jackson and Kendrick Perkins.

That type of move would give OKC a more balanced lineup, they would have Tim Hardaway Jr under contracted (reggie Jackson will likely leave as a RFA). It would also get them back under the luxary tax level which I am sure would make the thunder very happy. They are currently about the luxury tax level and they have never paid the luxury tax so it may interest them.

[mpharris36]

phil taking another run a Reggie Jackson? I wonder what fell through in the deal.

Reggie Jackson was interviewed and said I thought I was traded. I wonder what the framework of the deal and then it must have broke down. Maybe Thunder were requesting a pick from the knicks (2018) to complete the deal?

Not sure but with waiters there and with Jackson wanting to start I wonder what the price for Jackson will be.

OKC is also in the tax which I don't think they want to be so maybe the TPE is something that could interest them as a piece.

[Anotha Knicks fan]

maybe get roberson with one of TPEs as well to sweeten the deal,

is he even playing? where does he fall on the depth chart?

Dont really care, but the point is to find these small market teams with a reluctance to pay luxury tax, and capitalize on their smaller contracted players/expirings for our pittances.

[god shammgod]

I have to say, since the Cavs have so much riding on how far they go in the playoffs, it's odd to me that they think JR will help but I guess they just want some scoring punch to replace Waiters.

JR is unclutch. He is scared of the big moment and starts spiraling from there. That said, a great player like Bron could really help him a lot. At least give him some guts the way MJ did to Pippen.

Bron will have to get him to cut down on terrible shots and mistakes but if anybody can do it, Bron can.

I think both players could have just potentially suffered from being overextended.

I'm actually surprised so many of you are so down on Smith but granted, I didn't have to watch him play every night.

One reason both players were appealing to Cleveland, most notably Smith, is their catch a shoot statistics. J.R. is one of the best catch and shoot SG's in the entire league. He ranked #4 in the entire NBA on catch and shoot 3's at 46.5%. That is crazy good. I think Shump was at 38.5%, which also is very serviceable.

As for Smith, NY seemed to have been trying to extend him as a full-time, main scoring option and that is just not who he is IMO. Or maybe he was just doing that on his own? I like him in an offense where he plays off the ball and gets to space the floor and shoot less contested shots. I like him less when he has to assert himself as a go to scorer.

Shump is kind of a mystery to me. He possesses the measurables and athleticism to be a much better defender but he has regressed a bit in that regard. I think he's another guy who can excel as a role player but was looked at more as a building block.

Who knows....I guess we'll see but I thought both guys were nice fits in Cleveland. I thought they were both players who could be additive on a better roster but just kind of got bogged down on a team rebuilding. I guess we'll see.

i think your assessments are pretty good. especially about jr. he'll be in the right role and not asked to do much and should do better. shump is mostly a disappointment but maybe the greatly reduced role will help him too. not sure though. his defense is not really good anymore and his offense can completely disappear for weeks at a time. health is a concern with both though.

[god shammgod]

phil taking another run a Reggie Jackson? I wonder what fell through in the deal.

Reggie Jackson was interviewed and said I thought I was traded. I wonder what the framework of the deal and then it must have broke down. Maybe Thunder were requesting a pick from the knicks (2018) to complete the deal?

Not sure but with waiters there and with Jackson wanting to start I wonder what the price for Jackson will be.

OKC is also in the tax which I don't think they want to be so maybe the TPE is something that could interest them as a piece.

he said his agent and manager never called him though. he was hearing it from friends who saw it on twitter like we did.

[mpharris36]

phil taking another run a Reggie Jackson? I wonder what fell through in the deal.

Reggie Jackson was interviewed and said I thought I was traded. I wonder what the framework of the deal and then it must have broke down. Maybe Thunder were requesting a pick from the knicks (2018) to complete the deal?

Not sure but with waiters there and with Jackson wanting to start I wonder what the price for Jackson will be.

OKC is also in the tax which I don't think they want to be so maybe the TPE is something that could interest them as a piece.

he said his agent and manager never called him though. he was hearing it from friends who saw it on twitter like we did.

it just doesn't make sense to have waiters and Jackson to scoring guards that like the ball off the bench. I think they would be better suited with Calderon with Waiters. Maybe you move Tim Hardaway Jr and you get them a backup big like a Mosgov or someone of that nature and with our TPE we can eat that money and Perkins to get them under the luxury tax.

It is interesting to think about.

[god shammgod]

phil taking another run a Reggie Jackson? I wonder what fell through in the deal.

Reggie Jackson was interviewed and said I thought I was traded. I wonder what the framework of the deal and then it must have broke down. Maybe Thunder were requesting a pick from the knicks (2018) to complete the deal?

Not sure but with waiters there and with Jackson wanting to start I wonder what the price for Jackson will be.

OKC is also in the tax which I don't think they want to be so maybe the TPE is something that could interest them as a piece.

he said his agent and manager never called him though. he was hearing it from friends who saw it on twitter like we did.

it just doesn't make sense to have waiters and Jackson to scoring guards that like the ball off the bench. I think they would be better suited with Calderon with Waiters. Maybe you move Tim Hardaway Jr and you get them a backup big like a Mosgov or someone of that nature and with our TPE we can eat that money and Perkins to get them under the luxury tax.

It is interesting to think about.

they probably wanted a pick for him and still do.

[mpharris36]

they probably wanted a pick for him and still do.

agreed, they probably wanted our 2018 first. And Phil said no a rightfully so.

Reggie Jackson is a RFA and most likely is a rental and isn't worth a 1st round pick.

I would give them hardaway and calderon for Jackson and perkins. I would throw in the cavs 2nd rounders to spice it up.

We can even make a 3 team deal to get OKC a backup big if they don't want hardaway now that they have waiters.

the deal would accomplish a few things.

Calderon and Waiters work
Get a future asset in Hardaway (or shipped to 3rd team)
Get a 2nd round pick
Get out of luxury tax with Perkins

[K_ick_God]

you dont know any ****.

who is larkin? thanasis... yea so much value!! no one cares about them. early? he's not top 30 potential.

we lost our assets.
tyson chandler is top 10 center!
shumpert can be starter or good bench player in rookie contract.

we get rid of jr+felton contract and got worser calderon contract.
34 year old pg who cant defend and you expect him to learn triangle!!
he dont deserve 7.4m for a team targetin FA!

STFU!

You made a number of extreme statements but one thing stands out as just factually wrong -- where is Shumpert going to be on a rookie contract next year? He expires this year. But that's not even your silliest statement.

The Knicks have next to no assets, that's the point. Trading a pick for Bargs was terrible, trading a lot of our stuff for crap was terrible. Who was left? Shump has value to YOU. He's been a big disaster lately. I loved the guy and blame the Knicks but you don't get top value for a guy who has shown so little since his rookie season when he looked promising. Thud. That was the sound of Shump falling apart in almost every way.

JR is a bum. Everyone in the league knows he sucks and is not serious about being a good player. The fact that the Cavs even got him should make us think that their situation is at least somewhat unstable.



Tyson was not much of an asset. Maybe we could have gotten more but it's not clear. We'd have to have found an expiring and also gotten something back on top of that -- hard to do and find. If Rondo only gets a protected pick, then Tyson won't get much. Rondo is still a prime player who has led a team to a title. Tyson was a nice dirtywork big on a title ride on Dirk's coattails. Now Tyson is old. Protected pick for Tyson maybe, okay. Well a 2nd round pick and a protected first are not worlds and worlds apart so try to get some perspective.

You're hoodwinking yourself

jr+shumpert for nothing isnt good but i can accept it.
my points is dallas trade was fiasco.
bargnani trade was worser ok but dallas trade wasnt good one too.

we should send calderon and target 2 max players.
if you offer marc gasol+butler these players can be convinced by form big 3 with melo+top pick.
but if you ask for m.gasol to come here alone he'll probably pass.

ok send shumpert for jr.
sending chandler+felton shouldnt bring worser cap space for next years. probably even p.jackson regret on dallas trade but you guys defend that trade. some of you says 2nd round picks are better.
cole aldrich is better? if he is better he'll get bigger contract next year FA.(chandler 10m, cole aldrich 1m)

Dallas ranks 8th worst in team defense despite their former DPOY on the roster and playing heavy minutes. They're the only top 4 seed in the West who is in the bottom 10 of defense.

Tyson will get more based on his history but so what -- names get paid more. Aldrich has a long way to go to prove himself but not when it comes to his defensive rating which I'll repeat is better than Tyson's over the last 3 years.

You're worked up about getting a late 1st versus a 2nd and it's far from certain that anybody would have given better value for Tyson had we kept him and he continued to play poorly, along with an expiring. Put it this way -- if Rondo got what he got as far as a protected pick, then getting a really significantly better pick (than a 2nd) for Tyson would have been getting somebody to overpay significantly. Rondo is far more valuable and Dallas has far more intention of keeping him.

I know you live in the Monday morning NFL contest but Phil had to do something to change the roster and improve the point play. It failed. It was never going to work well no matter what he did. You're hoodwinking yourself and this board.

[god shammgod]

You made a number of extreme statements but one thing stands out as just factually wrong -- where is Shumpert going to be on a rookie contract next year? He expires this year. But that's not even your silliest statement.

The Knicks have next to no assets, that's the point. Trading a pick for Bargs was terrible, trading a lot of our stuff for crap was terrible. Who was left? Shump has value to YOU. He's been a big disaster lately. I loved the guy and blame the Knicks but you don't get top value for a guy who has shown so little since his rookie season when he looked promising. Thud. That was the sound of Shump falling apart in almost every way.

JR is a bum. Everyone in the league knows he sucks and is not serious about being a good player. The fact that the Cavs even got him should make us think that their situation is at least somewhat unstable.



Tyson was not much of an asset. Maybe we could have gotten more but it's not clear. We'd have to have found an expiring and also gotten something back on top of that -- hard to do and find. If Rondo only gets a protected pick, then Tyson won't get much. Rondo is still a prime player who has led a team to a title. Tyson was a nice dirtywork big on a title ride on Dirk's coattails. Now Tyson is old. Protected pick for Tyson maybe, okay. Well a 2nd round pick and a protected first are not worlds and worlds apart so try to get some perspective.

You're hoodwinking yourself

jr+shumpert for nothing isnt good but i can accept it.
my points is dallas trade was fiasco.
bargnani trade was worser ok but dallas trade wasnt good one too.

we should send calderon and target 2 max players.
if you offer marc gasol+butler these players can be convinced by form big 3 with melo+top pick.
but if you ask for m.gasol to come here alone he'll probably pass.

ok send shumpert for jr.
sending chandler+felton shouldnt bring worser cap space for next years. probably even p.jackson regret on dallas trade but you guys defend that trade. some of you says 2nd round picks are better.
cole aldrich is better? if he is better he'll get bigger contract next year FA.(chandler 10m, cole aldrich 1m)

Dallas ranks 8th worst in team defense despite their former DPOY on the roster and playing heavy minutes. They're the only top 4 seed in the West who is in the bottom 10 of defense.

Tyson will get more based on his history but so what -- names get paid more. Aldrich has a long way to go to prove himself but not when it comes to his defensive rating which I'll repeat is better than Tyson's over the last 3 years.

You're worked up about getting a late 1st versus a 2nd and it's far from certain that anybody would have given better value for Tyson had we kept him and he continued to play poorly, along with an expiring. Put it this way -- if Rondo got what he got as far as a protected pick, then getting a really significantly better pick (than a 2nd) for Tyson would have been getting somebody to overpay significantly. Rondo is far more valuable and Dallas has far more intention of keeping him.

I know you live in the Monday morning NFL contest but Phil had to do something to change the roster and improve the point play. It failed. It was never going to work well no matter what he did. You're hoodwinking yourself and this board.

that's not the hoodwink guy

[Jay10]

phil taking another run a Reggie Jackson? I wonder what fell through in the deal.

Reggie Jackson was interviewed and said I thought I was traded. I wonder what the framework of the deal and then it must have broke down. Maybe Thunder were requesting a pick from the knicks (2018) to complete the deal?

Not sure but with waiters there and with Jackson wanting to start I wonder what the price for Jackson will be.

OKC is also in the tax which I don't think they want to be so maybe the TPE is something that could interest them as a piece.

The Thunder probably want THJ, and Phil wants them to also take Calderon's contract.

[Jay10]

maybe get roberson with one of TPEs as well to sweeten the deal,

[img]is%20he%20even%20playing?%20where%20does%20he%20fall%20on%20the%20depth%20chart?[/img]

Dont really care, but the point is to find these small market teams with a reluctance to pay luxury tax, and capitalize on their smaller contracted players/expirings for our pittances.

If i'm not mistaken Roberson is in their starting lineup.

[DD12]

LMA+Gasol. This team is a contender.

[god shammgod]

if all it took for reggie was thj, they should do that in a second