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Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit?

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Should the Magic fire JV now?

Yes, nothing has changed fire his arse.
78
56%
Not 100% sure yet but it will happen this season.
35
25%
No, he's doing/done a great job.
26
19%
 
Total votes: 139

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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#361 » by OrlChamps2030 » Mon Jan 5, 2015 8:14 pm

MagicMadness wrote:
Zmill wrote:
MagicMadness wrote:My only problem with firing JV right now (other than not being a fan of doing it in-season) is my belief that the talent he has is simply not good/experienced enough yet to win many games no matter who is coaching them.

I mean, our best all-around player is 22 years old. And he doesn't even average 20ppg...

Our 'star' center can't play defense. Our top lottery pick has been out since November. Our rookie PG is extremely raw and worse at FT shooting than Dwight. We have no go-to shooters. We are one of the youngest teams in the league, and one of the youngest of the past 15 years.

And because of all this (and much more), it's hard for me to point the finger at Vaughn and say "You, sir, are THE reason this team has only won 13 games instead of...17!"

We were awful last year, and made no significant improvements. I know we're called the Magic, but Vaughn can't pull a rabbit out of the same old hat. Maybe Vaughn sucks, maybe he doesn't. Give him a talented roster and maybe we can find out...

So you want to give Jock a few more seasons until this team matures and is more talented?


All I'm really saying is that the team wasn't meant to win many games this season, no matter who the coach was.

I get that, but I remember coming into this season people thought we were going to win games too. When do you think the Magic will be "meant" to win games? Next season?? The season after??
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#362 » by MagicMadness » Mon Jan 5, 2015 8:27 pm

Zmill wrote:
MagicMadness wrote:
Zmill wrote:All I'm really saying is that the team wasn't meant to win many games this season, no matter who the coach was.

I get that, but I remember coming into this season people thought we were going to win games too. When do you think the Magic will be "meant" to win games? Next season?? The season after??


The only people who thought that were Magic fans desperately hoping the Magic would be good. Every reputable media source had the Magic as a bottom-feeder yet again.

Remember when we had Tracy McGrady? He was hitting his prime, an MVP candidate, all-star, All-NBA, scoring champ...and we would barely win 42-44 games a season. Replace him with Tobias Harris and a younger supporting cast - that is our current team.

I can't put all the blame on Vaughn.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#363 » by 407Junkie » Mon Jan 5, 2015 9:13 pm

"I think it’s an important season for us in a lot of ways. We’ve spent the last couple of years building a foundation and a culture that we feel is a good basis to build from, and I think we’re now shifting into a phase of this building plan where we want to start to establish an identity on the floor. This is an important year to see growth and progress for us. We expect to see growth. At the same time, we need to remain disciplined and need to remain committed to our plan and committed to staying the course."

That was a Hennigan quote and it is no growth and progress on this team. We're still at the bottom with wins and most all stats are at the bottom. I don't know what the hell people are watching saying that they don't know what type of coach Jacque Vaughn is. It's year three after replacing coach and gm and that's way enough time to be better and push for the playoffs. The reason why a lot of people knew we would suck ass was because they knew our coach was gonna be Vaughn. Either worst or second to it in the league.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#364 » by thelead » Mon Jan 5, 2015 9:18 pm

MagicMadness wrote:
Zmill wrote:
MagicMadness wrote:I get that, but I remember coming into this season people thought we were going to win games too. When do you think the Magic will be "meant" to win games? Next season?? The season after??


The only people who thought that were Magic fans desperately hoping the Magic would be good. Every reputable media source had the Magic as a bottom-feeder yet again.

Remember when we had Tracy McGrady? He was hitting his prime, an MVP candidate, all-star, All-NBA, scoring champ...and we would barely win 42-44 games a season. Replace him with Tobias Harris and a younger supporting cast - that is our current team.

I can't put all the blame on Vaughn.


While I agree that you can't put it all on JV (he's not the one missing layups), he is the coach and this team looks unprepared often and seems to have an offensive playbook the size of a business card. And why does he call timeouts when WE are on a run? I've never seen a coach do that.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#365 » by MagicMadness » Mon Jan 5, 2015 9:24 pm

What it's going to come down to is Hennigan's plan for this season. If Hennigan was expecting us to compete for the playoffs, then he could fire Vaughn at any moment. If he expected us to have a bad record again, and feels like Vaughn is doing a good job of developing youth and tinkering with line-ups to give the front office a better look at our talent, then he's probably not going to fire Vaughn.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#366 » by drsd » Mon Jan 5, 2015 9:44 pm

MagicMadness wrote:What it's going to come down to is Hennigan's plan for this season. If Hennigan was expecting us to compete for the playoffs, then he could fire Vaughn at any moment. If he expected us to have a bad record again, and feels like Vaughn is doing a good job of developing youth and tinkering with line-ups to give the front office a better look at our talent, then he's probably not going to fire Vaughn.


If Vaughn does not find some wins, things could rapidly spiral out of control as they have for the Knicks. This is a make or break moment for Vaughn to stay gainfully employed.


..
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#367 » by didak » Mon Jan 5, 2015 11:59 pm

I just want progress from some of the young players who should be stepping up but aren't quite there for whatever reason and I don't think a coach like JV can get the best out of our players from what I've seen with rotations etc..

Nicholson
Harkless
Oladipo (To and extant)

We need a coach with a fair amount of NBA experience.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#368 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed Jan 7, 2015 12:30 am

AmazinMUSIC wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:How much worse does this team have to get before people wake up and see that Jackhoff is a horendous coach?


How much worse does this team have to get before people wake up and see that our young players just aren't as good as we would like them to be at this point and time?




They could be playing so much better with for a decent coach.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#369 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed Jan 7, 2015 12:46 am

Magic lose to teams like Philly on our home court and we have to sit here and grin as Jack Haughff smiles agian in post game stating the team plays hard over and over again. When will we ever stop the bleeding until our lack of balls GM makes a change. Henny has eyes for talented young baasketball players and that is about it. He has no balls as doing his job in choosing leaders and coaches. This team won't improve until he grows balls and gets rid of Vaughn.
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Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#370 » by AmazinMUSIC » Wed Jan 7, 2015 8:07 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:Magic lose to teams like Philly on our home court and we have to sit here and grin as Jack Haughff smiles agian in post game stating the team plays hard over and over again. When will we ever stop the bleeding until our lack of balls GM makes a change. Henny has eyes for talented young baasketball players and that is about it. He has no balls as doing his job in choosing leaders and coaches. This team won't improve until he grows balls and gets rid of Vaughn.


Better teams than us have lost to Philly.


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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#371 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed Jan 7, 2015 3:32 pm

AmazinMUSIC wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Magic lose to teams like Philly on our home court and we have to sit here and grin as Jack Haughff smiles agian in post game stating the team plays hard over and over again. When will we ever stop the bleeding until our lack of balls GM makes a change. Henny has eyes for talented young baasketball players and that is about it. He has no balls as doing his job in choosing leaders and coaches. This team won't improve until he grows balls and gets rid of Vaughn.


Better teams than us have lost to Philly.


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How many games they won this season and whose court were their victories on?
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#372 » by cedric76 » Thu Jan 8, 2015 4:40 am

i just dont get it, he needs to GO asap even if we get a tempory coach for the next 3 months

he is Terrible

the pace we play is terrible
our X and O r terrible
his sub pattern is terrible
the way he uses our players is terrible (he plays to their weaknesses not strength)

i m physically sick watching our games
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#373 » by KillMonger » Thu Jan 8, 2015 4:55 am

Sometimes a firing may be a breath of fresh air for the team maybe? Fresh start so to speak? Maybe he's too nice of a guy to fire, maybe they'll promote him? get him away from coaching and make him an executive?
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#374 » by MagicStarwipe » Thu Jan 8, 2015 5:41 am

I'm starting to feel that we shouldn't wait abit. But I think we will wait abit. And it may even be for the best to wait abit. Somehow.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#375 » by Orlwillbeback » Thu Jan 8, 2015 5:46 am

Get mark Jackson's ass in here. I'm serious.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#376 » by FFBlitzace » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:27 am

I want to talk about Maurice Harkless. I know he's not very popular on this board right now, but let's be fair for a minute. He started the year out of the rotation. When JV finally put him in there, he played pretty well, I thought. He was active on the glass, he was running the floor, etc. Wasn't shooting the 3 well, but he was doing everything else well and making a visible impact. But instead of being rewarded with a consistent spot in the rotation, even in limited minutes, he was once again buried on the bench. In his appearances since then, he hasn't been good.

Let's rewind to the beginning of last season. Andrew Nicholson came out very strong. His rebounding and defense were both visibly and quantifiably improved, and he even added a 3pt shot. But then, in the blink of an eye, he was buried on the bench for no apparent reason (I'm lying. Glen Davis is too large a man to not be apparent.). And in his very sporadic appearances over the remainder of the season, he wasn't good.

Why has history basically repeated itself here? The knock on Harkless is his lack of energy and aggressiveness, but I feel like he was playing with good energy early on. So why was he benched while Willie Green played backup SF for several weeks? Playing it extremely badly, I might add. And now, despite JV being quoted as saying that he "still believes in Moe's abilities, and Moe knows that," the situation has culminated in Harkless being deactivated for rookie Devyn Marble. Sure, it's Moe's job to remain professional and not let that impact his approach to the game. That's totally valid. But he shouldn't have been benched like that to begin with. That's horrible mismanagement by JV, and horrible awareness of the type of personalities he's coaching. That's not some form of next-level psychology designed to motivate Harkless. If it is, it's woefully incorrect. Harkless has shown a fragility in his confidence level, and moves like that aren't likely to yield positive results with him. Maybe it worked once or twice, on a much smaller scale, in the past. But if it ever did truly work, the well has run dry on that strategy. Besides, he was playing well. But instead of solidifying that and building on it, JV literally crushed it in the palm of his hand. Much like Nicholson last season.

But wait a minute...speaking of last season, wasn't Tobias Harris (who is having a pretty darn good year by anyone's standards) coming off the bench less than one calendar year ago?! Yes, he was. Behind Maurice Harkless. What kind of rationale could possibly be presented that would legitimately explain this turn of events? Either JV was making a terrible mistake last season, or he's making a terrible mistake this season. There can be no inbetween. (Obviously Harris is the right call, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.)

You know what I think? I've been citing Occam's Razor in regards to JV for 3 years now. I don't think we should attempt finding some kind of deep meaning behind his seemingly incomprehensible logic. Because I don't think such a thing exists. The simple answer is, he has no idea what he's doing. He mismanaged Nicholson. He mismanaged Harkless (both of which were first round picks, by the way. Hardly throwaway assets you don't care about.). He has no semblance of a system on offense. Our defense isn't as good as it probably should be. There's no identity. Every night is a crapshoot, nothing is consistent. I take that back. The one thing we can count on every night is being able to scratch our head at his decisions.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that he had been, and would be, a great assistant coach. Players would almost certainly like him and enjoy working with him in that role. But he is not an NBA head coach.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#377 » by woosah » Thu Jan 8, 2015 6:28 am

Big Boss wrote:Sometimes a firing may be a breath of fresh air for the team maybe? Fresh start so to speak? Maybe he's too nice of a guy to fire, maybe they'll promote him? get him away from coaching and make him an executive?

Oh he talked his way into this job so maybe they should put him on the broadcast and give Nick another job. I wonder if Nick can coach. Lol j/k about that but JV should GO. I think we are tanking now though, because i just can't believe everyone sees how bad Vaughn is with the exception of the few people in Orlando's front office.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#378 » by didak » Thu Jan 8, 2015 8:06 am

FFBlitzace wrote:I want to talk about Maurice Harkless. I know he's not very popular on this board right now, but let's be fair for a minute. He started the year out of the rotation. When JV finally put him in there, he played pretty well, I thought. He was active on the glass, he was running the floor, etc. Wasn't shooting the 3 well, but he was doing everything else well and making a visible impact. But instead of being rewarded with a consistent spot in the rotation, even in limited minutes, he was once again buried on the bench. In his appearances since then, he hasn't been good.

Let's rewind to the beginning of last season. Andrew Nicholson came out very strong. His rebounding and defense were both visibly and quantitatively improved, and he even added a 3pt shot. But then, in the blink of an eye, he was buried on the bench for no apparent reason (I'm lying. Glen Davis is too large a man to not be apparent.). And in his very sporadic appearances over the remainder of the season, he wasn't good.

Why has history basically repeated itself here? The knock on Harkless is his lack of energy and aggressiveness, but I feel like he was playing with good energy early on. So why was he benched while Willie Green played backup SF for several weeks? Playing it extremely badly, I might add. And now, despite JV being quoted as saying that he "still believes in Moe's abilities, and Moe knows that," the situation has culminated in Harkless being deactivated for rookie Devyn Marble. Sure, it's Moe's job to remain professional and not let that impact his approach to the game. That's totally valid. But he shouldn't have been benched like that to begin with. That's horrible mismanagement by JV, and horrible awareness of the type of personalities he's coaching. That's not some form of next-level psychology designed to motivate Harkless. If it is, it's woefully incorrect. Harkless has shown a fragility in his confidence level, and moves like that aren't likely to yield positive results with him. Maybe it worked once or twice, on a much smaller scale, in the past. But if it ever did truly work, the well has run dry on that strategy. Besides, he was playing well. But instead of solidifying that and building on it, JV literally crushed it in the palm of his hand. Much like Nicholson last season.

But wait a minute...speaking of last season, wasn't Tobias Harris (who is having a pretty darn good year by anyone's standards) coming off the bench less than one calendar year ago?! Yes, he was. Behind Maurice Harkless. What kind of rationale could possibly be presented that would legitimately explain this turn of events? Either JV was making a terrible mistake last season, or he's making a terrible mistake this season. There can be no inbetween. (Obviously Harris is the right call, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.)

You know what I think? I've been citing Occam's Razor in regards to JV for 3 years now. I don't think we should attempt finding some kind of deep meaning behind his seemingly incomprehensible logic. Because I don't think such a thing exists. The simple answer is, he has no idea what he's doing. He mismanaged Nicholson. He mismanaged Harkless (both of which were first round picks, by the way. Hardly throwaway assets you don't care about.). He has no semblance of a system on offense. Our defense isn't as good as it probably should be. There's no identity. Every night is a crapshoot, nothing is consistent. I take that back. The one thing we can count on every night is being able to scratch our head at his decisions.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that he had been, and would be, a great assistant coach. Players would almost certainly like him and enjoy working with him in that role. But he is not an NBA head coach.


This! 150%!

The fact that Nico last season and now seemingly Moe this season have lost all confidence and are no where near the players they potentially could be falls on JV because HE is the one who COACHES and SETS the ROTATIONS. Scrub vets taking minutes say what for these two guys confidence.
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#379 » by claudio-br » Thu Jan 8, 2015 5:11 pm

Bill Simmons: Orlando should make the playoffs, but Jacque Vaughn is gonna ruin it (Around the 25 minute mark)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYQK3VAUN9Y[/youtube]

the big question here is: do we need to make the playoffs this season? i don't think that's what management expects for this season
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Re: Should the Magic fire JV now or wait abit? 

Post#380 » by OrlandoNed » Thu Jan 8, 2015 5:36 pm

claudio-br wrote:Bill Simmons: Orlando should make the playoffs, but Jacque Vaughn is gonna ruin it (Around the 25 minute mark)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYQK3VAUN9Y[/youtube]

the big question here is: do we need to make the playoffs this season? i don't think that's what management expects for this season

You make it sound like overachieving is a bad thing. If the team is good enough to make the playoffs, they should. I know we have the talent to do so but coaching is clearly holding us back.

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