Bradley Beal - Part II

dckingsfan · Post #1101 » by **dckingsfan** » Sat Jan 3, 2015 10:53 pm

I think the one thing you are missing is he just doesn't have the handles yet - so "forcing it" will just lead to lots of unforced turnovers. I think that instead of "forcing it" he needs to learn to be in constant motion. Sometimes he gets tired and just settles for a spot.

Illmatic12 · Post #1102 » by **Illmatic12** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 12:22 am

hands11 wrote:..

Hands, seems like you're one of the few guys who is level-headed and doesn't freak out about our players.

Beal is going through the same progression that almost every good scorer goes through. Guys like Durant, James, Bryant, Jordan, etc are EXCEPTIONS not the rule. It's very rare for an NBA shooting guard to have a complete game at age 21, and even more understated is how rare it is for a 21-year old to MENTALLY be able to take on the role as #1 scorer on a winning (key word: winning) team.

Ray Allen wasn't putting up quality numbers until his 4th season, at age 24:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nra02.html

That was the first season where Allen stepped up and said "I'm going to be #1 in this offense and take more shots than Glenn Robinson" -which was saying a lot given Big Dog's rep in the league. Coincidentally that was when the Bucks began to break out as a threat in the East.

Beal is in that weird transition period because he's (save Otto) the youngest guy on the team, but we also need him to be the guy on the team with the biggest balls if you will, to be the alpha male in the offense's pecking order. Wall can bail us out at times when we need a basket, but that's not his game and he looks uncomfortable doing it. It seems like Beal is gradually realizing, as the season progresses, that he needs to be that guy. I think Pierce's mentorship is helping to impart that in him as well.

Watching Wall improve before our eyes has given me a lot of faith in Beal being able to grow into a star. Wall didn't progress in a linear fashion by any means. He showed flashes of amazing/awful, got hurt freqently, looked like a bust at times, then all of a sudden something clicked in his head and he started wrecking the league from that day forward. Just wait till Beal gets more elusive with his handles, and is stronger to finish through contact at the rim (he has muscles now, but they're more of what I call 'popcorn' muscles lol.. he doesn't have true man strength yet). And more importantly, wait until he realizes how much better his team plays when he is individually aggressive scoring the ball. You look at how advanced he is for his age, the kid is going to be very, very good-- that much is clear to me.

hands11 · Post #1103 » by **hands11** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 12:58 pm

dckingsfan wrote:I think the one thing you are missing is he just doesn't have the handles yet - so "forcing it" will just lead to lots of unforced turnovers. I think that instead of "forcing it" he needs to learn to be in constant motion. Sometimes he gets tired and just settles for a spot.

There are many ways to force the issue. Being in constant motion is one of them.

But just running around isn't enough to stop a Danny Green. He will run around as well. You have to get up into a Danny Green and get physical back with him and get him in foul trouble. As much as he pestered Beal last night he only had 1 foul. You can't let that happen. He needed to be in foul trouble for guarding Beal that closely.

Beal needs to learn how to draw fouls on players playing him that aggressively.

Like I said, I hate to say it, but they need to learn to sell the fouls more. Wall as well. One one play Wall was going baseline and Boris totally hip checked him twice. Refs should have call it. Wall should have sold it. Same type of things was happening with Green guarding Beal. Hell, Splitter was doing it as well. How did Nene get 5 fouls and Splitter had ZERO. That's total BS

The team needs to turn of the level of scrap and nasty.

dckingsfan · Post #1104 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 3:34 pm

hands11 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I think the one thing you are missing is he just doesn't have the handles yet - so "forcing it" will just lead to lots of unforced turnovers. I think that instead of "forcing it" he needs to learn to be in constant motion. Sometimes he gets tired and just settles for a spot.

There are many ways to force the issue. Being in constant motion is one of them.

But just running around isn't enough to stop a Danny Green. He will run around as well. You have to get up into a Danny Green and get physical back with him and get him in foul trouble. As much as he pestered Beal last night he only had 1 foul. You can't let that happen. He needed to be in foul trouble for guarding Beal that closely.

Beal needs to learn how to draw fouls on players playing him that aggressively.

Like I said, I hate to say it, but they need to learn to sell the fouls more. Wall as well. One one play Wall was going baseline and Boris totally hip checked him twice. Refs should have call it. Wall should have sold it. Same type of things was happening with Green guarding Beal. Hell, Splitter was doing it as well. How did Nene get 5 fouls and Splitter had ZERO. That's total BS

The team needs to turn of the level of scrap and nasty.

Yep, that makes sense. Handling the ball at the top of the key only gets Bradley into foul trouble, not the individual guarding him. And agreed, they need to take lessons from Pierce on how to sell the fouls.

ozthegandp · Post #1105 » by **ozthegandp** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 4:06 pm

Meh. Ive nvr really liked how wall and beal play together. Whenever i watch it seens like they play their best ball when they are not on the court together. Ex the best part of beal's rookie season was the 10 or so games right before wall came back from injury.

If we could flip beal for a good rim protector id be all for it. Dream senario draymond green.

Down the line
Wall, sg?, durant, green, gortat > wall, beal, durant, pf?, gortat

Dark Faze · Post #1106 » by **Dark Faze** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 11:18 pm

The kid is 21 years old. His pace of development is fine. It's own management to get a star first option in here so he doesn't face the pressure of unrealistic expectations.

ozthegandp · Post #1107 » by **ozthegandp** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 11:31 pm

Its not so much what he has to develop that are holding him back. Its what he has to undevelop. Like the way he leans backward as he runs forward. Do u know how much i want to clothesline him when he runs toward the basket. Lucky for him i cant get my arm up that high. (Im only 5'1)

Post #1108 » by **nate33** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 11:38 pm

ozthegandp wrote:Meh. Ive nvr really liked how wall and beal play together. Whenever i watch it seens like they play their best ball when they are not on the court together. Ex the best part of beal's rookie season was the 10 or so games right before wall came back from injury.

This may well be the most incorrect thing ever posted on RealGM.

Before Wall, Beal averaged 13 points per game with a TS% of .471 and an ORtg of 96
After Wall, Beal averaged 16 points per game with a TS% of .580 and an ORtg of 110.

ozthegandp · Post #1109 » by **ozthegandp** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 11:52 pm

No dude im not talking about the season up to that point. Im talking about the streak beal was on the month wall came back. You know the monthe he was rookie of the month or whatever they gave him.

ozthegandp · Post #1110 » by **ozthegandp** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 11:54 pm

And if u bother to look at the times that beal scored the majority of his points when wall came back that month you will see it was he was on the floor with aj price not wall

Post #1111 » by **nate33** » Sun Jan 4, 2015 11:57 pm

He had 3 good games and 2 duds in the 5 games just before Wall's return. (He actually had 7 consecutive stinkers just before that.) 3 non-consecutive good games is not really evidence that Beal plays well without Wall. He played a whole ton of games without Wall and sucked for the most part.

Illmatic12 · Post #1112 » by **Illmatic12** » Mon Jan 5, 2015 12:05 am

ozthegandp wrote:And if u bother to look at the times that beal scored the majority of his points when wall came back that month you will see it was he was on the floor with aj price not wall

Beal just dropped 30+ @ Houston a couple days ago, with Wall setting him up perfectly all night to the tune of 14 points/ 12 assists. Just stop, you are wrong.

ozthegandp · Post #1113 » by **ozthegandp** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 4:06 am

Illmatic12 wrote:
ozthegandp wrote:And if u bother to look at the times that beal scored the majority of his points when wall came back that month you will see it was he was on the floor with aj price not wall

Beal just dropped 30+ @ Houston a couple days ago, with Wall setting him up perfectly all night to the tune of 14 points/ 12 assists. Just stop, you are wrong.

Really? It was the first game in weeks that beal had a good game.

Dont get me wrong. I dont think its a horrible combo and i know this is the best team we've had in a long time. Im just not satisfied yet.
And i prefer a strong front court to a strong backcourt. And i dont think We will be a real contender for a championship until we have an excellent frontcourt. The only way we can do that right now is trade a piece of the core and beal is the easiest to replace.

And before you say wait for durant, banking on durant signing isnt a plan its a dream.

ozthegandp · Post #1114 » by **ozthegandp** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 4:06 am

Illmatic12 wrote:
ozthegandp wrote:And if u bother to look at the times that beal scored the majority of his points when wall came back that month you will see it was he was on the floor with aj price not wall

Beal just dropped 30+ @ Houston a couple days ago, with Wall setting him up perfectly all night to the tune of 14 points/ 12 assists. Just stop, you are wrong.

Really? It was the first game in weeks that beal had a good game.

Dont get me wrong. I dont think its a horrible combo and i know this is the best team we've had in a long time. Im just not satisfied yet.
And i prefer a strong front court to a strong backcourt. And i dont think We will be a real contender for a championship until we have an excellent frontcourt. The only way we can do that right now is trade a piece of the core and beal is the easiest to replace.

And before you say wait for durant, banking on durant signing isnt a plan its a dream. We should be trying to shape our future ourselves not hoping it will turn out for the best. Just my two cents.

deneem4 · Post #1115 » by **deneem4** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 7:35 am

beal is extremely talented but as with any shooter(has not developed to a scorer(or isnt trying to be) he relies on getting setup with good shots...

I kno for sure beal is as good as klay, matthews, butler, monta offensively....

hands11 · Post #1116 » by **hands11** » Tue Jan 6, 2015 12:43 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
ozthegandp wrote:And if u bother to look at the times that beal scored the majority of his points when wall came back that month you will see it was he was on the floor with aj price not wall

Beal just dropped 30+ @ Houston a couple days ago, with Wall setting him up perfectly all night to the tune of 14 points/ 12 assists. Just stop, you are wrong.

I remember the time period he is talking about and it was true. There used to be lots of posts about this. Beal was even coming off the bench at several points and playing well without Wall. Wall would play well or Beal would play well at lot of times.

But its not an issue anymore. They have grown together and play well together.

Now at this point, would Beal develop as more of a ball in hand primary scorer if he wasn't out there with Wall so much. Maybe. It would likely be ugly at times watching him develop that but it might excel that part of his game. But its not happening so it doesn't really matter. He is developing with Wall. That is their paths. Its more of a Curry/Klay thing then a Harden thing.

As for the plan vs dream statement that doesn't really say anything ozthegandp. KD is a legit option. Of course it is not a sure thing but dreams can be plans and plans can be dreams. If you haven't executed one in your life, you might want to try doing that at least once. Its a lot of fun.

Darko Miliminutes · Post #1117 » by **Darko Miliminutes** » Wed Jan 7, 2015 5:48 pm

I have nothing to base this on, besides body language and stuff like that. But i think Wall, Beal, and the Wiz have done a masterful job of hiding that Beal and Wall, don't care much for each other.

On record now, i guess, for saying that Beal and Wall will not play together, for another contract.

tontoz · Post #1118 » by **tontoz** » Wed Jan 7, 2015 7:25 pm

Darko Miliminutes wrote:I have nothing to base this on, besides body language and stuff like that. But i think Wall, Beal, and the Wiz have done a masterful job of hiding that Beal and Wall, don't care much for each other.

On record now, i guess, for saying that Beal and Wall will not play together, for another contract.

I doubt they would have been at summer league together this past summer if they didn't get along. They didn't have to be there.

I have never seen any indication that they don't get along.

Post #1119 » by **nate33** » Wed Jan 7, 2015 7:27 pm

Darko Miliminutes wrote:I have nothing to base this on, besides body language and stuff like that. But i think Wall, Beal, and the Wiz have done a masterful job of hiding that Beal and Wall, don't care much for each other.

On record now, i guess, for saying that Beal and Wall will not play together, for another contract.

Dark Faze · Post #1120 » by **Dark Faze** » Wed Jan 7, 2015 9:04 pm

Like I said before, you have to look at Klay as the template. Klay didn't get any opportunity to develop as a primary ball handler because you didn't want to take the ball out of Currys hands.

It wasn't until his fourth year that he was all of a sudden getting to the rim and creating a lot more for himself.

Personally, I hate it when Beal tries to create a mid-ranged shot. He pounds the hell out of the ball, runs around Nene a bunch of times and jacks up a shot whenever he gets the slightest angle to shoot. That's bad. I don't mind him isolating, but either you create space with your handle for a shot or you go straight to the rim.