Stein: Mozgov Traded To Cleveland For 2 First Round Picks

[Sixerscan]

I think everyone clearly gets this. It doesn't make this trade a good one.

They don't need to stockpile first rounders. They could have used them better though.

This thinking that "We have LeBron James so nothing else matters" is short sighted and is what screwed up the Cavs with LeBron the first time and screwed the Heat last year/now. In 5 months LeBron has gone from saying "I know this will be a long process" to the Cavs using up all of their bullets to win now. They have no easy way to add to their core now. I hope he likes his how his team is currently constructed because he's pretty much stuck with it. Well he's not, the Cavs are, but you get my point.

How could they have used them better? They aren't great picks. They are picks from strong Western teams with protections all over them. The Memphis pick alone could net us nothing we needed. The Cavs got a wing defender and a post defender, both of which were top needs for the Cavs.

What exactly are you thinking the Cavs could have got? Cavs are clearly in win now mode, other teams know this. Rebuilding teams aren't going to just give there players away when they could easily just wait.

We basically got everything we knew we needed at the beginning of the year. They did not use all their assets up either. They still have Haywoods contract that they can use, they have all their first rounders except for next years. You make it sound like they gave away everything that they could use to get better for the next 4 years.

Just negative criticism with no insight or understanding.

The two picks they gave up for Mozgov was an overpay.

The extra first they gave up for Love was an overpay.

The Varejao extension was premature.

They aren't the only team in win now mode. And yet, they keep giving up more than other teams have for equivalent assets because they need to get the trade done NOW. None of those moves HAD to be done at that time, they weren't at the deadline.

Time and time again, they bid against themselves. Maybe I was too dramatic in that last post, they still have assets. Still, everything they've done screams "We have LeBron so its impossible for us to make bad moves." Which, as seen the last two times teams have had him, can backfire.

[Illmatic12]

team is just blah all over the place and the trade was too steep a price to pay for an injury prone big who's ceiling is simply above average

Not only that, they just gave a 3yr/$30mil contract to another injury-prone big (who, on cue, got injured and will probably never be fully healthy for the duration of that contract)

Cleveland REALLY has to win now with their moves, as they've mortgaged their future and swung for the fences on multiple levels.

If I was a Cavs fan I would be demanding immediate success, none of that "We have a lot of young guys, it will take time" stuff Lebron was saying - that's not necessarily the case anymore. And Lebron himself remains a question mark as well, in terms of the level he will be able to play at physically + how well he can fit with his new teammates/coach.

What do you mean?

PG: Kyrie Irving (23 years old)
SG: Iman Shumpert (24 years old)
SF: LeBron James (30 years old)
PF: Kevin Love (26 years old)
C: Timofey Mozgov (28 years old)

-Cleveland has ALL of their future first rounders except for 2016. How is the future being thrown away? That is a damn good team. A complete team.

Let's see them on the court for an extended sample size (and first returns have not been good) . If the fit is non-ideal, there isn't a whole lot of flexibility to make necessary changes. At least not without giving up even more assets.

[oikosnomos]

The two picks they gave up for Mozgov was an overpay.

The extra first they gave up for Love was an overpay.

The Varejao extension was premature.

They aren't the only team in win now mode. And yet, they keep giving up more than other teams have for equivalent assets because they need to get the trade done NOW. None of those moves HAD to be done at that time, they weren't at the deadline.

Time and time again, they bid against themselves. Maybe I was too dramatic in that last post, they still have assets. Still, everything they've done screams "We have LeBron so its impossible for us to make bad moves." Which, as seen the last two times teams have had him, can backfire.

We just a acquired a starting center in the NBA making less than 5 million and have him for next year AND fits our needs, but you consider two first (which are again, heavily protected and from strong playoff teams). If you consider that an overpay, then that's the opinion you hold.

The Miami first was going to be part of the deal no matter what considering Flip already had a deal lined up to send it to Philly. Boston was reportedly offering picks to get Love, so including that was a wash. That was fair trade, but you say overpay, so that is what you say.

The Varejao extension was premature, but I'm not sure why you are bring that up regarding trades. It doesn't bolster your argument any. That is luxury tax thing, but it didn't remove assets from what the Cavs already had. We didn't have cap space.

I don't anything about who was bidding and who wasn't. You don't have anything substantial to offer regarding that. I've already offered you all the assets and ways the Cavs still have to get better. Again, you are just disparaging the trade, but offer no alternatives or reason why.

[Mr Loggins]

Well yeah, if you ignore the fact that these were two different trades its fine.

It was three different trades, including the Keith Bogan's trade. Hell, we got the Memphis pick for Jon Leuer way back. You could say we got Mozgov, Shumpert and JR Smith for Dion Waiters and Jon Leuer if you look at the whole picture. Cavs don't care about picks in the 20's or that might materialize in 3 year (and even then, rookies will take years to actually contribute), they have Lebron and Love now. This is whatever one was harping on and now suddenly the Cavs are fools for not stockpiling late 1st rounders? What?

The Cavs replace Dion with JR Smith and got a wing defender and a true center. I'm ecstatic.

I think everyone clearly gets this. It doesn't make this trade a good one.

They don't need to stockpile first rounders. They could have used them better though.

This thinking that "We have LeBron James so nothing else matters" is short sighted and is what screwed up the Cavs with LeBron the first time and screwed the Heat last year/now. In 5 months LeBron has gone from saying "I know this will be a long process" to the Cavs using up all of their bullets to win now. They have no easy way to add to their core now. I hope he likes his how his team is currently constructed because he's pretty much stuck with it. Well he's not, the Cavs are, but you get my point.

I dunno - two late picks for a 28 year old legit big man seems like a decent deal for me

[carlquincy]

Cavs did good. Lets see if it translates on court.

No more excuses for Lebron though.

[RussellandFlow]

I think your team did well all things considered. I think people like to overreact because it is the Cavs. Had a team like San Antonio done something like this, all you would have heard was how smart Pop and the Spurs are. Mozgov is a young solid big on a cheap deal. Late first rd picks can be bought if needed, this is NOT the NFL people where first rd picks are so valuable. Why commit guaranteed money to a rookie who more than likely would be spending a ton of time in the D league when you can get a player like Mozgov?

[Nuggets_Talk]

Everyone thinks the Memphis protection is a bad thing. I love it because I don't want their pick this year. It's as low as it'll be in a long time.

If it was unprotected that would suck.

[marcush]

I like it for both teams.

People get a bit excited about late 1sts, maybe there is an anti Lebron sentiment as nobody was really giving them a pat on the back for extracting the 1st from OKC, now they get slammed for giving up 2 protected picks that are likely to be late. Teams throw around seconds like they are trash and treat late firsts like gold, when the difference is often minimal.

Still a nice little haul for Denver and adds some nice assets for a redundant player, and in great shape considering the excellent Nurkic pick.

Rounds Cavs out nicely, they addressed their needs of a big / rim protector and also got a nice defensive role player and a shooter off the bench. They are definitely better now than what they were a week ago. And it really only took Waiters and a protected Memphis pick. For people saying they are panicking, well there course was sealed with the Wiggins trade, so they are all in now and that makes perfect sense considering James is 30. Nice work.

[Sixerscan]

The two picks they gave up for Mozgov was an overpay.

The extra first they gave up for Love was an overpay.

The Varejao extension was premature.

They aren't the only team in win now mode. And yet, they keep giving up more than other teams have for equivalent assets because they need to get the trade done NOW. None of those moves HAD to be done at that time, they weren't at the deadline.

Time and time again, they bid against themselves. Maybe I was too dramatic in that last post, they still have assets. Still, everything they've done screams "We have LeBron so its impossible for us to make bad moves." Which, as seen the last two times teams have had him, can backfire.

We just a acquired a starting center in the NBA making less than 5 million and have him for next year AND fits our needs, but you consider two first (which are again, heavily protected and from strong playoff teams). If you consider that an overpay, then that's the opinion you hold.

The Miami first was going to be part of the deal no matter what considering Flip already had a deal lined up to send it to Philly. Boston was reportedly offering picks to get Love, so including that was a wash. That was fair trade, but you say overpay, so that is what you say.

The Varejao extension was premature, but I'm not sure why you are bring that up regarding trades. It doesn't bolster your argument any. That is luxury tax thing, but it didn't remove assets from what the Cavs already had. We didn't have cap space.

I don't anything about who was bidding and who wasn't. You don't have anything substantial to offer regarding that. I've already offered you all the assets and ways the Cavs still have to get better. Again, you are just disparaging the trade, but offer no alternatives or reason why.

Yup, we disagree. I've never seen a 28 year old guy like Mozgov that has never been a starter before fetch two first round picks.

The Varajao signing is part of the common refrain of Cleveland doing something today that they could have done tomorrow.

Everything you're saying is the consistent "We HAD to make this trade, or else it wouldn't have gotten done." That's not necessarily a good reason, winner's curse and all that.

Really, it wouldn't shock me at all if this was more about making LeBron happy and being worried about him leaving again rather than making the best basketball moves. It's been a common refrain everywhere Lebron has been, wouldn't surprise me if it's happening again.

[trustykilo]

Solid rebounder and big body for the Cavs. I just worry that he's more of a backup than a starter. Two first rounders for a backup center is overpay. Should have been one first rounder and a few scrubs. They still need a Oneal or Dalembert.

[DowJones]

Not only that, they just gave a 3yr/$30mil contract to another injury-prone big (who, on cue, got injured and will probably never be fully healthy for the duration of that contract)

Cleveland REALLY has to win now with their moves, as they've mortgaged their future and swung for the fences on multiple levels.

If I was a Cavs fan I would be demanding immediate success, none of that "We have a lot of young guys, it will take time" stuff Lebron was saying - that's not necessarily the case anymore. And Lebron himself remains a question mark as well, in terms of the level he will be able to play at physically + how well he can fit with his new teammates/coach.

What do you mean?

PG: Kyrie Irving (23 years old)
SG: Iman Shumpert (24 years old)
SF: LeBron James (30 years old)
PF: Kevin Love (26 years old)
C: Timofey Mozgov (28 years old)

-Cleveland has ALL of their future first rounders except for 2016. How is the future being thrown away? That is a damn good team. A complete team.

Let's see them on the court for an extended sample size (and first returns have not been good) . If the fit is non-ideal, there isn't a whole lot of flexibility to make necessary changes. At least not without giving up even more assets.

The same can be said about almost every team in the NBA competing for a title. That team is amazing on paper. Look at it. The oldest guy is Bron at 30. Griffin put together a really good team and we still have every future 1st rounder except 2016. That is all he can do. It is up to the players to play and the coaches to coach. Cleveland finally got their rim-protecting big and their 3 and D SG and those guys are both in their 20's. They didn't trade for a 34 year old big and a 32 year old SG.

As far as the construction of the team, I can't imagine it being better. Just need to get everyone healthy and on the same page.

[DowJones]

Anyone watching the Cleveland-Houston game can see how much the Cavs need a big.

[Big A All Day]

What's up with this game 6 guy? Dude posts news at the speed of light. He really is doing the most lol.

[Illmatic12]

What do you mean?

PG: Kyrie Irving (23 years old)
SG: Iman Shumpert (24 years old)
SF: LeBron James (30 years old)
PF: Kevin Love (26 years old)
C: Timofey Mozgov (28 years old)

-Cleveland has ALL of their future first rounders except for 2016. How is the future being thrown away? That is a damn good team. A complete team.

Let's see them on the court for an extended sample size (and first returns have not been good) . If the fit is non-ideal, there isn't a whole lot of flexibility to make necessary changes. At least not without giving up even more assets.

The same can be said about almost every team in the NBA competing for a title. That team is amazing on paper. Look at it. The oldest guy is Bron at 30. Griffin put together a really good team and we still have every future 1st rounder except 2016. That is all he can do. It is up to the players to play and the coaches to coach. Cleveland finally got their rim-protecting big and their 3 and D SG and those guys are both in their 20's. They didn't trade for a 34 year old big and a 32 year old SG.

As far as the construction of the team, I can't imagine it being better. Just need to get everyone healthy and on the same page.

"On paper" doesn't mean anything. The Lakers looked amazing on paper when they had Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Lamar Odom, etc. They didn't suck, but they obviously didn't play as well as people anticipated.

Let's see how well they actually perform against other teams in the league first, before you go off calling them 'amazing".. Shumpert might not even be an above average starting SG, let's see how he plays. Let's see if Mozgov (who hasn't actually been that great this season) is not a noticeable dropoff from Varejao.

[FreeChef]

Let's see them on the court for an extended sample size (and first returns have not been good) . If the fit is non-ideal, there isn't a whole lot of flexibility to make necessary changes. At least not without giving up even more assets.

The same can be said about almost every team in the NBA competing for a title. That team is amazing on paper. Look at it. The oldest guy is Bron at 30. Griffin put together a really good team and we still have every future 1st rounder except 2016. That is all he can do. It is up to the players to play and the coaches to coach. Cleveland finally got their rim-protecting big and their 3 and D SG and those guys are both in their 20's. They didn't trade for a 34 year old big and a 32 year old SG.

As far as the construction of the team, I can't imagine it being better. Just need to get everyone healthy and on the same page.

"On paper" doesn't mean anything. The Lakers looked amazing on paper when they had Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Lamar Odom, etc. They didn't suck, but they obviously didn't play as well as people anticipated.

Let's see how well they actually perform against other teams in the league first, before you go off calling them 'amazing".. Shumpert might not even be an above average starting SG, let's see how he plays. Let's see if Mozgov (who hasn't actually been that great this season) is not a noticeable dropoff from Varejao.

Dog, they sucked. They were the biggest NBA flop of my lifetime.

[Illmatic12]

The same can be said about almost every team in the NBA competing for a title. That team is amazing on paper. Look at it. The oldest guy is Bron at 30. Griffin put together a really good team and we still have every future 1st rounder except 2016. That is all he can do. It is up to the players to play and the coaches to coach. Cleveland finally got their rim-protecting big and their 3 and D SG and those guys are both in their 20's. They didn't trade for a 34 year old big and a 32 year old SG.

As far as the construction of the team, I can't imagine it being better. Just need to get everyone healthy and on the same page.

"On paper" doesn't mean anything. The Lakers looked amazing on paper when they had Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Lamar Odom, etc. They didn't suck, but they obviously didn't play as well as people anticipated.

Let's see how well they actually perform against other teams in the league first, before you go off calling them 'amazing".. Shumpert might not even be an above average starting SG, let's see how he plays. Let's see if Mozgov (who hasn't actually been that great this season) is not a noticeable dropoff from Varejao.

Dog, they sucked. They were the biggest NBA flop of my lifetime.

They won 45-49 games (iirc), made the playoffs and lost in the first round. Which ultimately will be the Cavs fate this year.

[HotRocks34]

Cavs did overpay for Mozgov, but their team is much better than it was a few days ago.

The only real glaring weakness on the team now is a legitimate backup center (with Varejao hurt). Thompson would be better as a power forward off the bench, IMO.

I doubt the Cavs can win a title this year, even if they are fully healthy, with their current roster. But they should be able to take on anyone in the East if they are relatively injury free and add someone like Dalembert and maybe some cheap buyout backup point guard later in the year so they don't just have to rely on Dellavedova there.

Good work by Griffin and the team. Not only did they essentially get Shumpert/Smith/Mozgov for Waiters/Amundson/Kirk, they also simply just got rid of Waiters. That of itself is a huge move so that this team can play a better style (if JR Smith can be kept under control).

[inquisitive]

2 firsts for Mozgov.

Pelicans gave up one protected first for Omer Asik

i believe pelicans pick protected 1-4

[DowJones]

Let's see them on the court for an extended sample size (and first returns have not been good) . If the fit is non-ideal, there isn't a whole lot of flexibility to make necessary changes. At least not without giving up even more assets.

The same can be said about almost every team in the NBA competing for a title. That team is amazing on paper. Look at it. The oldest guy is Bron at 30. Griffin put together a really good team and we still have every future 1st rounder except 2016. That is all he can do. It is up to the players to play and the coaches to coach. Cleveland finally got their rim-protecting big and their 3 and D SG and those guys are both in their 20's. They didn't trade for a 34 year old big and a 32 year old SG.

As far as the construction of the team, I can't imagine it being better. Just need to get everyone healthy and on the same page.

"On paper" doesn't mean anything. The Lakers looked amazing on paper when they had Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Lamar Odom, etc. They didn't suck, but they obviously didn't play as well as people anticipated.

Let's see how well they actually perform against other teams in the league first, before you go off calling them 'amazing".. Shumpert might not even be an above average starting SG, let's see how he plays. Let's see if Mozgov (who hasn't actually been that great this season) is not a noticeable dropoff from Varejao.

We aren't on the same page here. Your original point was that Cleveland mortgaged their future. I said they didn't and spelled out why I believe that. I am also saying that when you can put together a team like this, you do what you need to do. You have to admit, Griffin did a REALLY good job putting this thing together and that is all he can do.

[inquisitive]

Cavs did overpay for Mozgov, but their team is much better than it was a few days ago.

The only real glaring weakness on the team now is a legitimate backup center (with Varejao hurt). Thompson would be better as a power forward off the bench, IMO.

I doubt the Cavs can win a title this year, even if they are fully healthy, with their current roster. But they should be able to take on anyone in the East if they are relatively injury free and add someone like Dalembert and maybe some cheap buyout backup point guard later in the year so they don't just have to rely on Dellavedova there.

Good work by Griffin and the team. Not only did they essentially get Shumpert/Smith/Mozgov for Waiters/Amundson/Kirk, they also simply just got rid of Waiters. That of itself is a huge move so that this team can play a better style (if JR Smith can be kept under control).

i still think the hawks and bulls are ahead of them.