Rudy Gobert: Future DPOY

[HawaiianJazzFan]

What are you talking about? Going on and on about Len? I just read a thread on Gobert and Len's name came into the conversation. From some of the comments, I see people don't know what they are talking about so I provided some insight on Len. You don't have to get butt hurt because film don't lie and it displays that Len has an offensive ceiling that dwarfs Rudy's so you say look at the stats.....lol

Look at the film. Don't hate because some other center is better than yours!!

I love all the objective support and proof you show to back your statements, although honestly, that is what I'd do if there was no objective evidence whatsoever out there, that Len was outplaying Rudy. You couldn't find anyone in the Jazz organization that would consider trading Gobert for Len.

Len was brought up by a Sun's fan

Film, stats, highlights, everything you could think of suggests that Gobert's Defensive ceiling dwarf's Lens.

BTW, check out how well Len is defending the rim...

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/defense/?sort=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&dir=-1&CF=MIN*G*15%7CBLK*G*1

Suns as a team has been greatly impacted by Len, they are 11-3 with him starting and their defense in the paint is amongst the NBA's best.
So team impact wise Len is pretty good already.
As an individual, Len since starting is averaging 2.6 blocks per game, which is 3rd in the NBA. S

Now since this is a Gobert thread, I made the Len comparison because these 2 as I mentioned are 2 of the better shot blocking centers I've seen since the 2000s. Ibaka and Davis are PFs.

With that said, Gobert's wingspan and standing reach is amongst the highest of all time, whilst Len is a tier down in that regards, still elite in today's game. But Gobert is literally a freak of nature.

So YES, Gobert's defensive (shot blocking) potential is higher than Len's, but defense is not just about blocks per game, its about covering the paint and altering plays/shots as well as getting defensive rebounds.

Let's just say this, Jazz is extremely happy with Gobert, they wouldnt consider trading him unless for a superstar. The Suns feel EXACTLY the same way with Len.

These 2 as mentioned earlier should be amongst the blocks per game leaders in the next decade assuming they both stay healthy.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/defense/?sort=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&dir=-1&CF=MIN*G*15%7CBLK*G*1

I have to fight writing a thesis on this, but as the link provides, Gobert is defending the rim the best in the NBA, statistically players shoot 38.3% at the rim while Rudy is defending it, that incorporates everything, blocks, altered shots, deflections, intimidation, etc (this is the best stat to use, as you can see Anthony Davis is near the bottom, as a rim defender, and he leads the league in blocks). Len is near the bottom, players shoot 52.7% at the rim when he is defending it. Gobert since starting is averaging 5 blocks per game which is number one in the NBA. The Jazz are defending 11pts/100 possessions better when Gobert is on the floor (for Len it is about 3 points per 100 possessions). Part of the reason for this big difference is that Len needs to learn how to stop fouling. He fouls at a MUCH higher rate. Gobert is also rebounding at a better rate (remember this is accounting for the fact that PHX plays at the 3rd highest rate and that Utah is the 2nd slowest), passing at a better rate, drawing fouls at a higher rate, etc. Len is an amazing shot blocker, don't get me wrong but he has a ways to go to be an elite defender. Rudy, really just needs to sustain the level of defense he is playing to be one of the elite defenders.

Lastly, if you look at my first post about Len/Gobert. I said that it is foolish to say that one prospect is better than the other, this early. Honestly, we don't really know what either player's ceiling is. Gobert for example, improved a ridiculous amount in a short time. He could do that again or not, we don't know. They are both still, really young. I really like Len as a player and didn't really start ranting until JMac1 starting making crazy statements about Len being unequivocally better. We are happy with Gobert, and you guys are happy with Len. They fit our teams each really well.

[HawaiianJazzFan]

Duplicate post

[HawaiianJazzFan]

I think what you see with Rudy is what you get. So yes, he has reached his peaked already, a long shot blocker and good re-bounder. So his ceiling is a poor man's Mutombo.

So far in the month of January he's averaged 10PPG/8.6RPG/5BPG so if that's what I'm getting for the rest of his career, I'll take it

And you should. I never said anything disparaging towards Rudy. You like your guy and I like my guy. I think they are two different type of players.

Like one guy said here, Len has more offense and Rudy has better shot blocking, they appear to be about equal on rebounding. I don't have any idea how Rudy is on switches.

Len defense is really picking it up, especially his block shots. He had a 6 block game in like 15 mins of play a week ago. He just started playing (starting) and you cannot compare the two, Len's team is trying to make the playoffs, so Len development isn't a priority.

I had come in peace, I even ended my first post by complimenting the entire 2013 draft. Hopefully the NBA talking heads will be debating this in the future.

But the Len dunk was crazy and no one here admitted that yet?!

I love how Rudy is near his peak... Including last night he has only played in 82 NBA games because Corbin did not want to play him last year (and in the 45 games he played he had a positive impact and only played 9 mpg in those 45 games), the same number of games Len has played, yet Gobert is already at his ceiling?? Also, Rudy so far is a much better rebounder than Len. This is because he rebounds more per game but also because the Jazz play at the 2nd slowest pace in the NBA and the Suns are 3rd fastest, so Rudy rebounds at a much higher rate. Yes, Len's dunk was sick... he's actually had quite a few sick dunks.

[JMac1]

I think what you see with Rudy is what you get. So yes, he has reached his peaked already, a long shot blocker and good re-bounder. So his ceiling is a poor man's Mutombo.

What makes you think this? He's only 22, I find it incredibly unlikely he makes zero progress on either end.

I didn't the posters here basically implied that he was at the pinnacle (miles ahead, insane by making comparisons, untouchable, phenom), so that's a poor man's Mutombo.

I have yet to see any offensive skills for him though. I don't know how much he can progress. He can definitely improve aspects of his offense without a doubt, but he doesn't have the frame that Len has which will limit him in the post game. He isn't fluid and very coordinated as well, that will limit him with his face up dribble penetration game. He is lanky without body definition and doesn't display a low center of gravity.

My guy does, that's why I prefer Len. Len blocks shots, rebounds, and can switch to smaller guys fairly well. Len has brought formidable defense to the Suns as was stated by a comrade. He is definitely no slouch, but offensively........see the highlights!!

[HawaiianJazzFan]

The other thing that helps us is that we already have one of the best young 2-way front court players in Derrick Favors, who gets to play a position he has been thriving at... the PF position.

[JMac1]

I love all the objective support and proof you show to back your statements, although honestly, that is what I'd do if there was no objective evidence whatsoever out there, that Len was outplaying Rudy. You couldn't find anyone in the Jazz organization that would consider trading Gobert for Len.

Len was brought up by a Sun's fan

Film, stats, highlights, everything you could think of suggests that Gobert's Defensive ceiling dwarf's Lens.

BTW, check out how well Len is defending the rim...

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/defense/?sort=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&dir=-1&CF=MIN*G*15%7CBLK*G*1

Suns as a team has been greatly impacted by Len, they are 11-3 with him starting and their defense in the paint is amongst the NBA's best.
So team impact wise Len is pretty good already.
As an individual, Len since starting is averaging 2.6 blocks per game, which is 3rd in the NBA. S

Now since this is a Gobert thread, I made the Len comparison because these 2 as I mentioned are 2 of the better shot blocking centers I've seen since the 2000s. Ibaka and Davis are PFs.

With that said, Gobert's wingspan and standing reach is amongst the highest of all time, whilst Len is a tier down in that regards, still elite in today's game. But Gobert is literally a freak of nature.

So YES, Gobert's defensive (shot blocking) potential is higher than Len's, but defense is not just about blocks per game, its about covering the paint and altering plays/shots as well as getting defensive rebounds.

Let's just say this, Jazz is extremely happy with Gobert, they wouldnt consider trading him unless for a superstar. The Suns feel EXACTLY the same way with Len.

These 2 as mentioned earlier should be amongst the blocks per game leaders in the next decade assuming they both stay healthy.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/defense/?sort=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&dir=-1&CF=MIN*G*15%7CBLK*G*1

I have to fight writing a thesis on this, but as the link provides, Gobert is defending the rim the best in the NBA, statistically players shoot 38.3% at the rim while Rudy is defending it, that incorporates everything, blocks, altered shots, deflections, intimidation, etc (this is the best stat to use, as you can see Anthony Davis is near the bottom, as a rim defender, and he leads the league in blocks). Len is near the bottom, players shoot 52.7% at the rim when he is defending it. Gobert since starting is averaging 5 blocks per game which is number one in the NBA. The Jazz are defending 11pts/100 possessions better when Gobert is on the floor (for Len it is about 3 points per 100 possessions). Part of the reason for this big difference is that Len needs to learn how to stop fouling. He fouls at a MUCH higher rate. Gobert is also rebounding at a better rate (remember this is accounting for the fact that PHX plays at the 3rd highest rate and that Utah is the 2nd slowest), passing at a better rate, drawing fouls at a higher rate, etc. Len is an amazing shot blocker, don't get me wrong but he has a ways to go to be an elite defender. Rudy, really just needs to sustain the level of defense he is playing to be one of the elite defenders.

Lastly, if you look at my first post about Len/Gobert. I said that it is foolish to say that one prospect is better than the other, this early. Honestly, we don't really know what either player's ceiling is. Gobert for example, improved a ridiculous amount in a short time. He could do that again or not, we don't know. They are both still, really young. I really like Len as a player and didn't really start ranting until JMac1 starting making crazy statements about Len being unequivocally better. We are happy with Gobert, and you guys are happy with Len. They fit our teams each really well.

On offense not on defense or over all. I didn't debate the guy here who said Len could be so so both ways and Rudy could dominate one way. It depends on what you are looking for. I took a jab at Rudy because of the guys who insinuated that Rudy and Len were not comparable as OVERALL players. That is what I was focused on.

I apologize for insulting Rudy by stating he was done growing as a player. I actually like the guy.

[JMac1]

The other thing that helps us is that we already have one of the best young 2-way front court players in Derrick Favors, who gets to play a position he has been thriving at... the PF position.

Wow! I forgot that, good point. You definitely don't need Rudy to be a staring two-way player. Your front court is nice. He is a perfect fit. He just needs to be able to finish clean looks when penetration collapses the defense or when Favors gets doubled.

We don't have that luxury with Len. Markieff is cool, but he is no Favors.

[HawaiianJazzFan]

Suns as a team has been greatly impacted by Len, they are 11-3 with him starting and their defense in the paint is amongst the NBA's best.
So team impact wise Len is pretty good already.
As an individual, Len since starting is averaging 2.6 blocks per game, which is 3rd in the NBA. S

Now since this is a Gobert thread, I made the Len comparison because these 2 as I mentioned are 2 of the better shot blocking centers I've seen since the 2000s. Ibaka and Davis are PFs.

With that said, Gobert's wingspan and standing reach is amongst the highest of all time, whilst Len is a tier down in that regards, still elite in today's game. But Gobert is literally a freak of nature.

So YES, Gobert's defensive (shot blocking) potential is higher than Len's, but defense is not just about blocks per game, its about covering the paint and altering plays/shots as well as getting defensive rebounds.

Let's just say this, Jazz is extremely happy with Gobert, they wouldnt consider trading him unless for a superstar. The Suns feel EXACTLY the same way with Len.

These 2 as mentioned earlier should be amongst the blocks per game leaders in the next decade assuming they both stay healthy.

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/defense/?sort=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&dir=-1&CF=MIN*G*15%7CBLK*G*1

I have to fight writing a thesis on this, but as the link provides, Gobert is defending the rim the best in the NBA, statistically players shoot 38.3% at the rim while Rudy is defending it, that incorporates everything, blocks, altered shots, deflections, intimidation, etc (this is the best stat to use, as you can see Anthony Davis is near the bottom, as a rim defender, and he leads the league in blocks). Len is near the bottom, players shoot 52.7% at the rim when he is defending it. Gobert since starting is averaging 5 blocks per game which is number one in the NBA. The Jazz are defending 11pts/100 possessions better when Gobert is on the floor (for Len it is about 3 points per 100 possessions). Part of the reason for this big difference is that Len needs to learn how to stop fouling. He fouls at a MUCH higher rate. Gobert is also rebounding at a better rate (remember this is accounting for the fact that PHX plays at the 3rd highest rate and that Utah is the 2nd slowest), passing at a better rate, drawing fouls at a higher rate, etc. Len is an amazing shot blocker, don't get me wrong but he has a ways to go to be an elite defender. Rudy, really just needs to sustain the level of defense he is playing to be one of the elite defenders.

Lastly, if you look at my first post about Len/Gobert. I said that it is foolish to say that one prospect is better than the other, this early. Honestly, we don't really know what either player's ceiling is. Gobert for example, improved a ridiculous amount in a short time. He could do that again or not, we don't know. They are both still, really young. I really like Len as a player and didn't really start ranting until JMac1 starting making crazy statements about Len being unequivocally better. We are happy with Gobert, and you guys are happy with Len. They fit our teams each really well.

On offense not on defense or over all. I didn't debate the guy here who said Len could be so so both ways and Rudy could dominate one way. It depends on what you are looking for. I took a jab at Rudy because of the guys who insinuated that Rudy and Len were not comparable as OVERALL players. That is what I was focused on.

I apologize for insulting Rudy by stating he was done growing as a player. I actually like the guy.

Pfft, no worries. The suns are a team, besides the Jazz, that I've seen more games of than any other franchise. My family moved to Gilbert when I was in Jr high. I used to have some crazy debates about Nash and Stockton back in high school with some of my friends who were Suns fans.

[rockersdash]

These responses are too funny!!

Do you mean yours?

I get standing up for your guy but be realistic. Jumping the gun or not.

Rudy is a phenom? You are insane if you took Len over him? Those comments aren't funny

Oops. Gobert is miles ahead of Len

Let's talk in 5 years. Both will be good but Gobert brings something that this league has very few off. He also has a strong sample size.

[Perkele]

He's a freak of nature. Gobert has a crazy wingspan of 7' 8.5'' and a standing reach at 9' 7''. There are only a few NBA players (meaning guys who played more than just a few games unlike for instance Slavko Vraneš or Pavel Podkolzin) who could have been able to exceed his reach. I know Mark Eaton was 7' 4", but I think his wingspan was a bit shorter than Gobert's. Well, if I'm not mistaken . Regarding Shawn Bradley and Yao Ming (both taller) I'm not certain about their standing reach and tbh, I'm a bit too lazy to look up for it right now

The only two persons of regular NBA players where I am 100 percent sure who had a greater standing reach than Gobert were Gheorghe Muresan (at 7' 7' tall) who had a wingspan of 7'10" and Manute Bol. Bol, who as far as I know still holds that record, was 7' 7'' tall with an absolute insane wingspan of 8' 6" and a standing reach of 10' 5''!!!!

[TKainZero]

I never put it together until now...

But manute bol is slenderman

[thamadkant]

He's a freak of nature. Gobert has a crazy wingspan of 7' 8.5'' and a standing reach at 9' 7''. There are only a few NBA players (meaning guys who played more than just a few games unlike for instance Slavko Vraneš or Pavel Podkolzin) who could have been able to exceed his reach. I know Mark Eaton was 7' 4", but I think his wingspan was a bit shorter than Gobert's. Well, if I'm not mistaken . Regarding Shawn Bradley and Yao Ming (both taller) I'm not certain about their standing reach and tbh, I'm a bit too lazy to look up for it right now

The only two persons of regular NBA players where I am 100 percent sure who had a greater standing reach than Gobert were Gheorghe Muresan (at 7' 7' tall) who had a wingspan of 7'10" and Manute Bol. Bol, who as far as I know still holds that record, was 7' 7'' tall with an absolute insane wingspan of 8' 6" and a standing reach of 10' 5''!!!!

Yeah, Gobert is a freak of nature... but he doesnt look malnutrition like Manute Bol did lol.
I grew up in the 80s and saw Manute Bol played several times (on TV) and he looked CARTOONISH... its like a stick figure drawn on the court literally. He was so skinny, that you have to be amazed on his 8'6" wingspan since he didnt have wide shoulders...
The short shorts and skin tight jersey didnt help to make him look thicker...

Mark Eaton, I also liked, although didnt get to see much of his prime years (456 block season), from the games I saw he was still a freak of nature, apparently his wingspan isnt special, he is 7'4 with wingspan of 7'4... so he was average.. but the guy knew how to block.

But Manute Bol having standing reach higher than the ring itself is astonishing lol.

[Catchall]

Gobert has a unique combination of size (obviously), footspeed, motor and love for the game. He can literally play an entire half without taking a break and he never takes plays off. He will try to deny literally every shot he can get at. He beats people down the floor and makes quick defensive rotations.

[Damon_3388]

Alex Len, 2014-15
2.8 blocks per 36 minutes
3.9 blocks per 100 possessions
6.0 BLK%
0.48 block-to-foul

Rudy Gobert, 2014-15
3.7 blocks per 36 minutes (league leader)
5.4 blocks per 100 possessions (league leader)
8.0 BLK% (league leader)
1.01 block-to-foul ratio (3rd in the league behind Anthony Davis and Pau Gasol)

Gobert wins.

[JMac1]

Alex Len, 2014-15
2.8 blocks per 36 minutes
3.9 blocks per 100 possessions
6.0 BLK%
0.48 block-to-foul

Rudy Gobert, 2014-15
3.7 blocks per 36 minutes (league leader)
5.4 blocks per 100 possessions (league leader)
8.0 BLK% (league leader)
1.01 block-to-foul ratio (3rd in the league behind Anthony Davis and Pau Gasol)

Gobert wins.

Thanks for proven that Len is an apt shot blocker. Most people had no idea.

[Damon_3388]

Alex Len, 2014-15
2.8 blocks per 36 minutes
3.9 blocks per 100 possessions
6.0 BLK%
0.48 block-to-foul

Rudy Gobert, 2014-15
3.7 blocks per 36 minutes (league leader)
5.4 blocks per 100 possessions (league leader)
8.0 BLK% (league leader)
1.01 block-to-foul ratio (3rd in the league behind Anthony Davis and Pau Gasol)

Gobert wins.

Thanks for proven that Len is an apt shot blocker. Most people had no idea.

More about showing that Gobert is arguably the best shotblocker in the league already, but OK.

[jazzfan1971]

Walter Tavares > Alex Len > Rudy Gobert

[thamadkant]

Jazz should be winning more games with a front court of Gobert and Favors with Hayward... the backcourt need an upgrade.

[thamadkant]

Alex Len, 2014-15
2.8 blocks per 36 minutes
3.9 blocks per 100 possessions
6.0 BLK%
0.48 block-to-foul

Rudy Gobert, 2014-15
3.7 blocks per 36 minutes (league leader)
5.4 blocks per 100 possessions (league leader)
8.0 BLK% (league leader)
1.01 block-to-foul ratio (3rd in the league behind Anthony Davis and Pau Gasol)

Gobert wins.

Yeah I saw the same numbers.

I actually went further and investigated each player by their GAME LOGs.

Interestingly, Gobert was producing similar numbers as Len now, when he was playing 21-22 minutes which is SAME as Len now.
Then when Gobert started to get 30 minutes plus, his production improved and now his per 36 has been amazing.

Len, IMO, will also get the same improvement once he get 30 minutes... Len had games where he had 5 blocks in the first 20 minutes on the court.

Gobert, if he can maintain this could be nicknamed Mount Gobert, the next Mutombo!

[laploutocratie]

Walter Tavares > Alex Len > Rudy Gobert

Why do some of these posters keep bringing up other bigs in a thread talking about Rudy Gobert? Talk about insecurity.

BTW, I really like Len. But Gobert looks a lot smoother out there; his fluidity and defensive prowess is a lot more polished than Len. And Tavares looks like an absolute stiff. Even Al Jefferson looks like he'll outrun him on an open court.