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Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#561 » by bigfoot » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:44 am

1UPZ wrote:I'm pessimistic about Suns changing their run and gun system to a more balanced attack.

Hornacek whether through his own vision or due to instruction from upper management... Are running a push-transition tempo type game. Every rebound you almost tend to see Dragic or Bledsoe push and sprint all the way to their end... If resisted they push up to 3/4 or kick off to parallel player running to spot up at the side three point lines, If little resistance you see them try to score at the rim.

It works on some teams and it works on bits of the game but it tires out the players hence the suns have a deep rotation of swing men/guards. Again as mentioned it works on some portions of the game but the other team can counter easily too, when the suns tire out or when a turn over happens.


And why would they change that part of the game. Statistics show that early shots are almost aways a higher percentage shot. The defense isn't set and therefore we either get layups or wide open jumpers. That part of our offense should not be changed. It is when that option has been taken away (either through a Suns turnover or good transition defense by the other team).

I am optimistic about improving our half court game. Our pick-n-roll could improve some and may improve with Wright (better hands and finishing than Plumlee). Where I really expect improvement is Len. Certainly within the next two years we should expect him to develop a low post game as his body fills out or a high post game where he has shown he can make some decent passes. Either that or the Suns go and find a low post player at the SF/PF position. That should help with the ball movement by drawing double teams and forcing bad defensive rotations.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#562 » by thamadkant » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:58 am

bigfoot wrote:
1UPZ wrote:I'm pessimistic about Suns changing their run and gun system to a more balanced attack.

Hornacek whether through his own vision or due to instruction from upper management... Are running a push-transition tempo type game. Every rebound you almost tend to see Dragic or Bledsoe push and sprint all the way to their end... If resisted they push up to 3/4 or kick off to parallel player running to spot up at the side three point lines, If little resistance you see them try to score at the rim.

It works on some teams and it works on bits of the game but it tires out the players hence the suns have a deep rotation of swing men/guards. Again as mentioned it works on some portions of the game but the other team can counter easily too, when the suns tire out or when a turn over happens.


And why would they change that part of the game. Statistics show that early shots are almost aways a higher percentage shot. The defense isn't set and therefore we either get layups or wide open jumpers. That part of our offense should not be changed. It is when that option has been taken away (either through a Suns turnover or good transition defense by the other team).

I am optimistic about improving our half court game. Our pick-n-roll could improve some and may improve with Wright (better hands and finishing than Plumlee). Where I really expect improvement is Len. Certainly within the next two years we should expect him to develop a low post game as his body fills out or a high post game where he has shown he can make some decent passes. Either that or the Suns go and find a low post player at the SF/PF position. That should help with the ball movement by drawing double teams and forcing bad defensive rotations.



What you said doesnt contradict my point..

There is NOTHING wrong with going for the easy buckets and as mentioned, but its when teams adjust to it thats when the Suns rely on jump shots.

Its an exhausting strategy and hence why Suns have 3 PGs playing significant minutes as mentioned.

But going back to the point about what to do when the push tempo option is taken away... the Suns will be facing an uphill battle relying on jump shots. Hence why I mentioned balance attack, Spurs have it and they've won the ring last season.

You mentioned about improving the half court game, and thats my agenda/point also (with my balanced attack point) but I'm implying that the Suns current personnel and coaching direction may not be suited to it. Again I'm speculating based on what is shown in games and by the stats.

Hence why I think Suns need a back to the rim player that they can rely NEXT to Len... and they need to add plays for Len...
But I am pessimistic the current players will comply with giving looks to Len in anycase. Reading some of Hornacek's game feedbacks, he seems to be instructing some things and the players ignore it.
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Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#563 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:58 am

Kerrsed wrote:At the trade deadline, after we go through our BRUTAL scheduled and are out of the playoff picture:

Suns get Noel/Wroten/Heat 1st (top 10 protected).
76ers get Morris/Morris/Thomas.

Sixers continue to tank for the next month until the trade. Thomas gives them an instant upgrade at PG thats signed long-term for cheap. They also get the Hometown Philly Strong Morris twins, who undoubtedly would be a much much much better fit next season next to Embiid. They still retain their own high draft pick.

Suns do this for multiple reasons. 1st they free themselves from the 3 PG headache mistake. They turn Thomas (who is begging to be a starter) for a good backup SG that has shown that he can produce. Suns also turn MorrisX2 into a real defensive PF in Noel. Twin towers Noel & Len for the win. Salary wise, it helps us retain Dragic (and Wright) next season as Thomas/MorrisX2 make a combined $20M next season, while Noel/Wroten make a combined $5.5M (A $14.5M savings). The Heat pick would be a late lotto pick, and could allow us to combine it and our to move up in the draft.

Next Season's Team:

Bledsoe/Ennis
Dragic/Wroten/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren
Noel/DRAFT
Len/Wright/Dumlee


I was thinking about the exact same deal today except we would swap picks with no protection.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#564 » by KLEON » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:14 am

SF88 wrote:I think trading Green (and maybe Thomas) can have a Detroit Pistons post-Josh Smith type impact on the Suns.

I honestly think the ball moves around a lot more without Green who is playing selfish to stat pad for his new contract.


How much money do you guys think Green is going to command in the summer? To me when he's good he's damn good but when he's bad he's baddddddddd. I like him better last season because he was a good scorer and more of a team player but this season he's been selfish, his defense stinks and overall he's been playing like a knucklehead even when he's on fire. I just really don't understand him, its like he's trying to play himself out of a good contract. If he really wants a good contract why doesn't he play like he did last season? :roll:
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#565 » by MilotheSlayer » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:25 am

KLEON wrote:
SF88 wrote:I think trading Green (and maybe Thomas) can have a Detroit Pistons post-Josh Smith type impact on the Suns.

I honestly think the ball moves around a lot more without Green who is playing selfish to stat pad for his new contract.


How much money do you guys think Green is going to command in the summer? To me when he's good he's damn good but when he's bad he's baddddddddd. I like him better last season because he was a good scorer and more of a team player but this season he's been selfish, his defense stinks and overall he's been playing like a knucklehead even when he's on fire. I just really don't understand him, its like he's trying to play himself out of a good contract. If he really wants a good contract why doesn't he play like he did last season? :roll:

Unless he hits a hot streak for the rest of the season I don't think a team will spend more than 4 or 5 million a year. Even that might be a stretch. Once GM's sit down and look at tape and see how negative he is outside of his hot flashes they won't risk it. I could see a tanking team throwing some money at him just because he'd bring fans into the stadium.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#566 » by Revived » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:33 am

MilotheSlayer wrote:
KLEON wrote:
SF88 wrote:I think trading Green (and maybe Thomas) can have a Detroit Pistons post-Josh Smith type impact on the Suns.

I honestly think the ball moves around a lot more without Green who is playing selfish to stat pad for his new contract.


How much money do you guys think Green is going to command in the summer? To me when he's good he's damn good but when he's bad he's baddddddddd. I like him better last season because he was a good scorer and more of a team player but this season he's been selfish, his defense stinks and overall he's been playing like a knucklehead even when he's on fire. I just really don't understand him, its like he's trying to play himself out of a good contract. If he really wants a good contract why doesn't he play like he did last season? :roll:

Unless he hits a hot streak for the rest of the season I don't think a team will spend more than 4 or 5 million a year. Even that might be a stretch. Once GM's sit down and look at tape and see how negative he is outside of his hot flashes they won't risk it. I could see a tanking team throwing some money at him just because he'd bring fans into the stadium.

Are you joking? You do realize that guys like PJ Tucker, Jodie Meeks, Channing Frye among many, many other undeserving fellas are making $4 or $5 million right?

Green will get paid what a good starting caliber big should be making. Anywhere in the $7-$12M/yr range.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#567 » by Gorilla Warfare » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:41 am

Looks like Austin Rivers is going to end up with the Clippers via trade. That should be interesting to see how Doc handles his son in the rotation.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#568 » by thamadkant » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:55 am

Gerald Green will/should make around MLE level, 7-8 Million per year.
I can see Pistons going for him, since he will be a huge upgrade from Caron Butler and he gives spacing to Drummond and Monroe.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#569 » by Revived » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:59 am

ChrisInAZ wrote:
SF88 wrote: ...the Suns GM also figured out that we need an upgrade over Plumlee.


This trade is as much about the back-up PF position as it is about the back-up center spot.

Its really not.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/554045340119085057[/tweet]

Plus McD himself clearly says here that Wright will likely get the backup Center minutes.

http://www.nba.com/suns/blog/mcdonough- ... dan-wright

Plus note the "backup center" in the tweet

[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/553971357877141504[/tweet]
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#570 » by Kerrsed » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:05 am

Gorilla Warfare wrote:Looks like Austin Rivers is going to end up with the Clippers via trade. That should be interesting to see how Doc handles his son in the rotation.


His brother has been begging the Pelicans to trade him all season on Twitter.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JRivers25/status/552991496585367552[/tweet]

He had many others including the hashtag #FreeAustin, but it looks like they have been deleted.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#571 » by MilotheSlayer » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:54 am

SF88 wrote:
MilotheSlayer wrote:
KLEON wrote:
How much money do you guys think Green is going to command in the summer? To me when he's good he's damn good but when he's bad he's baddddddddd. I like him better last season because he was a good scorer and more of a team player but this season he's been selfish, his defense stinks and overall he's been playing like a knucklehead even when he's on fire. I just really don't understand him, its like he's trying to play himself out of a good contract. If he really wants a good contract why doesn't he play like he did last season? :roll:

Unless he hits a hot streak for the rest of the season I don't think a team will spend more than 4 or 5 million a year. Even that might be a stretch. Once GM's sit down and look at tape and see how negative he is outside of his hot flashes they won't risk it. I could see a tanking team throwing some money at him just because he'd bring fans into the stadium.

Are you joking? You do realize that guys like PJ Tucker, Jodie Meeks, Channing Frye among many, many other undeserving fellas are making $4 or $5 million right?

Green will get paid what a good starting caliber big should be making. Anywhere in the $7-$12M/yr range.

That might be the case but I think it'll be a gross overpay. He's strictly a one dimensional player. The majority of his game is below average except for his athleticism and streaky shooting. He has a low BBIQ, a below average defender, and has never really grasped complex offensive sets. I think he found the perfect storm in PHX. He can play to his strengths and that is getting hot, but that can shoot himself in the foot when he starts chucking when he's off. I don't think he could go into a Spurs, Chi, or even GSW and succeed.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#572 » by DirtyDez » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:08 am

Qwigglez wrote:Barnes isn't doing much. Green has been a very good surprise for the Warriors. You could argue that Kieff is playing better than Green though. I don't even know who their starting center is as Bogut is constantly injured. They are only better in their back court duo of Curry/Thompson, but I think our overall rotation at guard is better than the Warriors.


Barnes has star talent but a journeyman mentality. Kerr knew this and said it when he was announcing. He worked with him turning into high energy/high% shot taking role player. He has thrived in that role and is crashing the boards like a champ. I wish the Twins would reach that energy level consistently.

Draymond Green isn't very skilled but he's improved every part of his game. That is player development. Every one of our players with the exception of Len has declined since last year. People said that if Bledsoe plays the entire season there's no way we'd miss the playoffs. Well...
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#573 » by Revived » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:03 am

Come on guys, we do not have a better guard rotation than the Warriors. Curry alone makes their guards way better than ours and way better than any guards combos or trios in the NBA.

For example, Curry, Ish Smith, and Sebastian telfair is a better trio than Bledsoe, Dragic and IT imo.

Now you add in the fact that Curry isn't playing with scrubs, his backcourt teammate is actually the guy who will probably will MIP in Klay Thompson and the answer is a no brainer.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#574 » by RaisingArizona » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:09 am

1 bad game and everyone wants to trade Kieff. This board is beyond ridiculous.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#575 » by Revived » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:20 am

ginobiliflops wrote:1 bad game and everyone wants to trade Kieff. This board is beyond ridiculous.

His piss poor rebounding and defense throughout the whole season isn't helping matters.

I'm not on the trade Kieff bandwagon, but I certainly don't think he's starting caliber on a good team. I'd like to retain him as a 6th man though because I think he'd be beneficial that way with his low post scoring abilities while masking his rebounding and defensive deficiencies.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#576 » by Bogyo » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 am

SF88 wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:1 bad game and everyone wants to trade Kieff. This board is beyond ridiculous.

His piss poor rebounding and defense throughout the whole season isn't helping matters.

I'm not on the trade Kieff bandwagon, but I certainly don't think he's starting caliber on a good team. I'd like to retain him as a 6th man though because I think he'd be beneficial that way with his low post scoring abilities while masking his rebounding and defensive deficiencies.


This. Plus while I haven't really seen anyone on the "trade Kieff" bandwagon. There were/are a cpl posters who are looking for the next step. One of the logical directions with Len's emergence is an upgrade at the PF spot. I like Kieff, and I think he can add a bit to his game in the next few years, but he is not going to be the one bringing us to the promise land.

However, he (and his brother) can be trade chips to build around (with IT and our picks) to acquire a real difference maker, if opportunity knocks.

If it doesn't, I'm fine with developing them, cuz I think they are good (only OK in case of Marcus) players on great deals. If Markieff becomes a bit more efficent (fg%, 3pt fg%), plus hustles his way to one or two more rebounds a game this year and next, I'm fine, and he can even be our starter - but only if Len is the real deal banging down low. If he just remains the same while we get a better PF with the Lakers pick, then I'm all good as well.

All in all, happy with Markieff, just thinking out loud about possible scenarios - which is somewhat the purpose of this board i guess.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#577 » by Damkac » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:17 am

I never wanted Morris bros traded but if they don't stfu I will :evil:
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#578 » by thamadkant » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:54 am

The problem with Kieff is that he isn't rebounder nor paint protector... As a SF or a super sub PF that's fine.

Basically, he is OK for now... But I would always check for an upgrade at the PF.


And he isn't Dirk Nowitzki or Amare either...
These guys are much more reliable offensively, even when cold they impact the game...
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#579 » by JMac1 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:29 pm

1UPZ wrote:The problem with Kieff is that he isn't rebounder nor paint protector... As a SF or a super sub PF that's fine.

Basically, he is OK for now... But I would always check for an upgrade at the PF.


And he isn't Dirk Nowitzki or Amare either...
These guys are much more reliable offensively, even when cold they impact the game...



Exactly how I feel. Kieff is just ok. He is a back-up type of guy, but we feed him in the post like he is a stud. I think everyone on the team is afraid of he and Mook :lol: that's why they give him the ball on the block so much. I also believe that is why they get so many techs, there is no one to check their attitudes at the door.

When Kief plays against a good PF his night is over pretty quick. He couldn't get a shot off over the Spurs. I do like his mean streak and the fact that he and his bro doesn't give a poop, but they need to get that under control.
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Re: Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs 

Post#580 » by bigfoot » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:35 pm

SF88 wrote:Come on guys, we do not have a better guard rotation than the Warriors. Curry alone makes their guards way better than ours and way better than any guards combos or trios in the NBA.

For example, Curry, Ish Smith, and Sebastian telfair is a better trio than Bledsoe, Dragic and IT imo.

Now you add in the fact that Curry isn't playing with scrubs, his backcourt teammate is actually the guy who will probably will MIP in Klay Thompson and the answer is a no brainer.


WTF have you been smoking. Ish Smith and Telfair ... SMH

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