Jeff Green Traded to the Memphis Grizzlies (official woj tweet page 1)

[grantlongforpresident]

^^all true. Hopefully the griz pick is '19 unprotected. Nets picks could be really good as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on board with the plan. Neither post ACL rondo or green were taking us to the promise land. It was time to move on vs paying them big bucks. While I really like rondo and was disappointed with the haul, I think Green is fools gold and am fine with the trade. He never really seemed to have that competitive instinct and wasn't worth resigning.

[GreenMachine]

Don't be silly Chakdaddy... you are either being a Troll... or an idiot. Which is it? We didn't trade Rondo for Wright. Duh! We traded Rondo for numerous assets... ONE of which was Wright. And we did that because we KNEW we were going to flip Wright for whatever we could...

What assets? A low draft pick. A backup 3 in Crowder. And a useful big man in Wright. and of course Nelson. Wright seems like the biggest piece out of that haul. The rest is borderline useless.

Lol. I guess its time for you to find a new tream to not support.

[sully00]

The point no one brings up is that Rondo, Wright and Jeff Green are all free agents at the end of the season. No team is going to give max value for a player that may leave in 4-5 months. Ainge made a decision that those players are not part of the future and is getting the most that he can given the market for those players. Ainge is talking to every team.

Sorry if the actual value for each player doesn't match the hypotical value the are in RealGM posters minds.

Right but I think the debatable question is whether Danny made those decisions too late.

I don't think Ainge has had a better concrete offer on the table for Green or Rondo than the deals he took. I know everyone thinks Ainge could have traded Rondo while he was out with the knee but I don't think that is realistic. Maybe he could have pulled the deal with DET, Knight and a DET 1st likely available in '16 other than that from what I can tell of the rumored trade packages that we heard for Rondo that everyone thought were so awful, that was Ainge's asking price and everyone thought it was too high.

I agree it would have been better for the team to be at this point last season but you need someone willing to make the trade. I think AInge dropped the price on Rondo and Green's value increased enough for someone to bite. He came away with 3 firsts or two firsts and two seconds and a couple of TPEs. There is no high end talent in the mix but I don't think there was really any high end talent going out.

[Valid]

Don't be silly Chakdaddy... you are either being a Troll... or an idiot. Which is it? We didn't trade Rondo for Wright. Duh! We traded Rondo for numerous assets... ONE of which was Wright. And we did that because we KNEW we were going to flip Wright for whatever we could...

What assets? A low draft pick. A backup 3 in Crowder. And a useful big man in Wright. and of course Nelson. Wright seems like the biggest piece out of that haul. The rest is borderline useless.

Lol. I guess its time for you to find a new tream to not support.

I like how he said "what assets?" and then proceeded to write up a whole list of them.

[165bows]

There's even a scenario where you flip the pick back to them for Gasol in three years. Randolph and Allen will be irrelevant, and not out of the question they won't be real contenders anymore. Lots of options going forward. Maybe they've put their team together with all these picks and just need a vet center to get in the mix.

Totally agree with Sully, it's hard to be patient but there are lots of ways to get back on top from here.

[Chris4Vikes]

Has anyone got any more information on the nature of the pick the Cs be getting? It has been hypothesized that, because of the nature of the pick they owe Denver (it's protected through 2019), that the pick to Boston may have to be unprotected. This is because the pick to Boston could be conveyed as late as 2021, which is the final year under the CBA in which a pick can be traded.

[Valid]

There's even a scenario where you flip the pick back to them for Gasol in three years. Randolph and Allen will be irrelevant, and not out of the question they won't be real contenders anymore. Lots of options going forward. Maybe they've put their team together with all these picks and just need a vet center to get in the mix.

Totally agree with Sully, it's hard to be patient but there are lots of ways to get back on top from here.

You're wrong, bows! The only way to get back on top is to trade Jeff Green for a top 10 pick and trade Brandan Wright for Eric Bledsoe!

[KamikazeK]

Right... because Monta sucks... and Parsons... Millsap... Sprewell... Manu... or for that matter Gomes, Powe, Baby... (Gomes helped us get KG... Baby got us Bass...)

Seconds aren't worthless, but the odds of getting a good player are much lower- the pool of talent is smaller, you're basically talking about guys who slip through the cracks and get passed up by every team. Sometimes it's because they're high schoolers from small Southern towns (Monta), sometimes they're guys with questions about size or athleticism (Millsap), sometimes they're Euros.. Asik was a second-rounder, I think.. Maybe Gortat, too. But Ainge likes to get college guys with his second-rounders, usually ones with a lot of skill and questions about athleticism. When those guys can cope in the league, you get a steal- but I don't think he's ever drafted a Euro, and that's where you stand the best chance of hitting with a second-rounder.

Plus they never get traded for 1sts, even if you're offering a dozen of them. Their value doesn't really aggregate on the NBA trade market.

Sure... odds are lower. But the odds are WAY BETTER then if you don't have them at all.

Also... wasn't it a 2nd (or two?) that moved us up to take KO? If we use all these seconds to move up 3 or 4 spots to get the guy DA really wants in each draft over the next 5 years... that will have made them VERY valuable.

And I guess roster spots for every bum we want to take a chance on in the second round just grow on trees, right?

[KamikazeK]

Don't be silly Chakdaddy... you are either being a Troll... or an idiot. Which is it? We didn't trade Rondo for Wright. Duh! We traded Rondo for numerous assets... ONE of which was Wright. And we did that because we KNEW we were going to flip Wright for whatever we could...

What assets? A low draft pick. A backup 3 in Crowder. And a useful big man in Wright. and of course Nelson. Wright seems like the biggest piece out of that haul. The rest is borderline useless.

Lol. I guess its time for you to find a new tream to not support.

Get off your high horse, pal. You can support a team without support every idiotic move the GM makes. You aren't the king of Boston.

[Banks2Pierce]

Get off your high horse, pal. You can support a team without support every idiotic move the GM makes. You aren't the king of Boston.

[Bohemian]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/554335088188878848[/tweet]

[klemen4]

My o my...all this drama for worthless 2nd rounder

[GreenMachine]

What assets? A low draft pick. A backup 3 in Crowder. And a useful big man in Wright. and of course Nelson. Wright seems like the biggest piece out of that haul. The rest is borderline useless.

Lol. I guess its time for you to find a new tream to not support.

Get off your high horse, pal. You can support a team without support every idiotic move the GM makes. You aren't the king of Boston.

I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing and critiquing the moves... I do have a problem with people making idiotic statements and/or making up false information to support their complaints. For example: 'Why did we trade Rondo for Wright' - that is not critiquing the move, or even factually correct... that is just being dumb or a troll, or both.

[GreenMachine]

Seconds aren't worthless, but the odds of getting a good player are much lower- the pool of talent is smaller, you're basically talking about guys who slip through the cracks and get passed up by every team. Sometimes it's because they're high schoolers from small Southern towns (Monta), sometimes they're guys with questions about size or athleticism (Millsap), sometimes they're Euros.. Asik was a second-rounder, I think.. Maybe Gortat, too. But Ainge likes to get college guys with his second-rounders, usually ones with a lot of skill and questions about athleticism. When those guys can cope in the league, you get a steal- but I don't think he's ever drafted a Euro, and that's where you stand the best chance of hitting with a second-rounder.

Plus they never get traded for 1sts, even if you're offering a dozen of them. Their value doesn't really aggregate on the NBA trade market.

Sure... odds are lower. But the odds are WAY BETTER then if you don't have them at all.

Also... wasn't it a 2nd (or two?) that moved us up to take KO? If we use all these seconds to move up 3 or 4 spots to get the guy DA really wants in each draft over the next 5 years... that will have made them VERY valuable.

And I guess roster spots for every bum we want to take a chance on in the second round just grow on trees, right?

Funny how this is your retort after I just spelled out a very good and plausible example of how we will use those 2nds WITHOUT adding ANY 2nd rounders to the team. Good work!

[KamikazeK]

Lol. I guess its time for you to find a new tream to not support.

Get off your high horse, pal. You can support a team without support every idiotic move the GM makes. You aren't the king of Boston.

I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing and critiquing the moves... I do have a problem with people making idiotic statements and/or making up false information to support their complaints. For example: 'Why did we trade Rondo for Wright' - that is not critiquing the move, or even factually correct... that is just being dumb or a troll, or both.

People with more information than you have actually considered Wright the best player in that deal, so no, saying we traded rondo for him is not nearly as ridiculous as you claim.

[soxfan2003]

The point no one brings up is that Rondo, Wright and Jeff Green are all free agents at the end of the season. No team is going to give max value for a player that may leave in 4-5 months. Ainge made a decision that those players are not part of the future and is getting the most that he can given the market for those players. Ainge is talking to every team.

Sorry if the actual value for each player doesn't match the hypotical value the are in RealGM posters minds.

Right but I think the debatable question is whether Danny made those decisions too late.

I don't think Ainge has had a better concrete offer on the table for Green or Rondo than the deals he took. I know everyone thinks Ainge could have traded Rondo while he was out with the knee but I don't think that is realistic. Maybe he could have pulled the deal with DET, Knight and a DET 1st likely available in '16 other than that from what I can tell of the rumored trade packages that we heard for Rondo that everyone thought were so awful, that was Ainge's asking price and everyone thought it was too high.

I agree it would have been better for the team to be at this point last season but you need someone willing to make the trade. I think AInge dropped the price on Rondo and Green's value increased enough for someone to bite. He came away with 3 firsts or two firsts and two seconds and a couple of TPEs. There is no high end talent in the mix but I don't think there was really any high end talent going out.

Offers are sometimes a bit fluid until the deal is done. I suspect the Celtics could have gotten roughly the same for Green, after his strong playoffs and 2nd half of the season in 2013, if they struck in the summer of 2013 but ended up getting modestly more by selling off their 9 million in increased cap room this year to the highest bidder. Basically Green's expiring replacement off the books at the end of 2013-14 season allows the Celtics to take on salary from a team willing to pay to get under the luxury tax or trying to make other moves. I understand what Ainge was trying to do with Green. See if he blew up and his trade value skyrocketed a bit with the opportunity to be the scoring star and replace Paul Pierce. Keep him around in a scenario like Kevin Love coming to the team. I think Ainge should have trusted his own public comments and talent evaluation of Green more and the advanced analytics that have pretty much always questioned Green's value of a player. Last year, the Celtics were better on the court with Gerald Wallace than Green. It may be a statistical fluke but these flukes have happened often in Green's career that it is a trend. But we damn well know there is sometimes a difference -- sometimes HUGE -- between Ainge's public comments and what he really believes. Ainge privately may have believed in Green's potential more than what he said publicly but just didn't want to put additional pressure on him.

As for Rondo, I think it is a laughable notion and a complete disrespect to Rondo himself that he could not have fetched a lot more in the summer of 2013. Rondo these past two partial seasons has played his worse ball since his rookie year. Right now he appears damn close to a worst case "washed up" scenario coming back from an ACL injury that I warned repeatedly was a realistic possibility that even intelligent fans were not taking properly into account. He is only half a year from FA. Of course, the poor play and a half a year until FA drop your trade value in a very significant manner. If Ainge had acted right away in the summer of 2013 and wasn't trying to get too big of a haul but a package that reflected the RISK the other team was taking, he probably would have ended up with roughly twice what he (fortunately) got from the Mavericks. And had cap space from removing Rondo from the team a year earlier and that can sometime be worth a first round pick on its own as the Utah trades with Golden State demonstrate.

Rondo fans in the summer of 2013, in a hypothetical trade scenario, wanted about "3-4 Times" what the Celtics may end up with if that Dallas pick doesn't end up in the top 12. That I knew was unrealistic post ACL but getting a lot more than Ainge ended up with wasn't. Did ANYONE even the Rondo skeptics like me advocate trading Rondo in an offer that didn't guarantee to a top 10 Pick?

In fact, the Celtics have great trade negotiators as far as I am concerned and Dallas was nearly as desperate as Cleveland....that is the reason the Celtics did as well as they did in the Rondo trade. And just faith by Dallas that Rondo would turn it around by the post season. Rondo if he returned to 90% of his former self was a great fit for Dallas.

Rondo now has a PER of 13.7 with Dallas and a TS of 42%.

Quite honestly Rondo -- and I personally think the ACL/age has a lot to do with the non free throw aspects -- is now performing at my "worst case" scenario. I expected him to perform better with Dallas than Boston and not worse. Give credit to Ainge for cutting his losses.

Ainge gambled and lost but he was intelligent enough to stop gambling and did a GREAT job of cutting his losses. He (sort of) gambled in not trading KG/PP halfway through the 2012-13 season or after the 2012 season and won. For the record, I never advocated trading PP and KG until about a month before Ainge did it in the summer of 2013. I was in complete agreement of the timing of that trade. One person thought I was Ainge since that trade was EXACTLY what I was looking for. But I recognize Ainge, by his own admissions, was previously contemplating PP and KG trades but just wasn't nearly happy enough with the offers. Ainge himself is on record saying he didn't really have compelling offers for PP/KG until the Brooklyn offer which was obviously boosted a lot by the Celtics taking on Gerald Wallace's contract for 3 years but still good value if you wipe Wallace out of the trade and the increased picks that his bad contract brought.

[brackdan70]

Do we need to set up a bickering thread?...its a bit tedious wading through all the blah, blah, blah , whine, whine, whine, to find useful info and interesting insight.

[Banks2Pierce]

I'm still having trouble with the Clippers part of the trade. The Clippers won't want to give up their recent 1st round prospects and no one is going to assume Farmar's $2mil for 2016. Bigger assets might have to be shuffled around for them.

[GreenMachine]

Get off your high horse, pal. You can support a team without support every idiotic move the GM makes. You aren't the king of Boston.

I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing and critiquing the moves... I do have a problem with people making idiotic statements and/or making up false information to support their complaints. For example: 'Why did we trade Rondo for Wright' - that is not critiquing the move, or even factually correct... that is just being dumb or a troll, or both.

People with more information than you have actually considered Wright the best player in that deal, so no, saying we traded rondo for him is not nearly as ridiculous as you claim.

Yes. Yes it is. We traded Rondo for THREE players, a HUGE TPE and TWO draft picks. Saying we traded Rondo for any one of those assets is clearly skewering the facts to support a preconceived notation and also... just plain false.

[jfs1000d]

Maybe someone takes adams, we take second rounder, rivers to clips and voila--- saved money.


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