Game 40: Phoenix Suns (22-17) @ Memphis Grizzlies (25-11)

[Revived]

The play which we essentially lost the lead on. I don't understand why Hornacek has a smirk on his face at the end.

http://streamable.com/eca

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

That response is hilarious.

So let's look at the TWolves. 5-31 is a terrible record. Their young core is Wiggins, Bennett, Shabazz, Dieng, Rubio and LaVine. They only have 1 guy who I'd want over any one of the guys we already have. I'd take Bledsoe, Morri, Archie, Len, Tyler and TJ all over everyone but Wiggins, and collectively I'd rather have our group.

Now for the Bucks. 20-19, according to our fans, they must be awful because we're 22-18 and the worst team in the NBA. Their young core is Jabari, Giannis, Knight, Henson and Middleton. I take our group over theirs again.

I'd also be willing to bet the Suns come closer to a championship than the Bucks or TWolves over the next 10 years. Who wants to take that one?

The difference is that they are developing their young players who have potential instead of letting them rot on the bench. Both teams do have a much brighter future than us, which was the point he was trying to make. The key word is FUTURE, where you are talking about the present.

^this. While Goodwin, Warren and Ennis are warming the bench for the Suns, those rookies and sophomores on those teams are getting actual playing which is helping them make mistakes and learning from it and develop.

Excuse the pun, but they are also being thrown to the "wolves". Let's see how many of them actually turn into good players. How do you know that they are being developed the right way, and not the wrong way. How many NBA players have you developed, exactly? How many successful NBA players have attributed their success to you, like those who have attributed their success to Hornacek?

Look at Lavine's and Bennett's efficiency stats.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... ach-lavine
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... ny-bennett

Now look at Warren's and Ennis' efficiency stats.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... /tj-warren
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... yler-ennis

Warren is shooting 45.5%, on 40% from 3. Ennis is shooting 45% and 33% from 3. Lavine? 40% and 25% respectively.

How do you know that Lavine's psyche isn't messed up? What if he doesn't rebound?

Point being, I trust Hornacek way more than I trust myself, or anyone else on this board that thinks they know the correct way to develop young talent. Hornacek has been cited multiple times by NBA players that have developed under him while at Utah.

So just because you think Minnesota is doing it the right way, doesn't mean they are. And honestly, they almost don't have a choice because how many young players they have on their roster. Who exactly is mentoring them on the team? Minnesota is owner to the 2nd worst record in the league, while we are sitting with the 12th best record, and in the 8th Playoff spot in the West.

We have issues for sure, and I certainly don't think that we are positioned for greatness anytime soon, but honestly, what is your plan to get us better, that doesn't involve the pipe dream of trading away our garbage for an NBA star? Do you really think we should sit all of our starters and start Ennis/Goodwin/Warren/Kieff/Len? This way we can lose more games and draft 7th? 9th? whatever? I certainly don't. We already own the LAL pick--that's our high lotto pick in the next year or two, which would make two in 4 years, along with a handful of other later 1st rd picks. We'll get there, but yes, it might take another season or two.

[Revived]

The difference is that they are developing their young players who have potential instead of letting them rot on the bench. Both teams do have a much brighter future than us, which was the point he was trying to make. The key word is FUTURE, where you are talking about the present.

^this. While Goodwin, Warren and Ennis are warming the bench for the Suns, those rookies and sophomores on those teams are getting actual playing which is helping them make mistakes and learning from it and develop.

Excuse the pun, but they are also being thrown to the "wolves". Let's see how many of them actually turn into good players. How do you know that they are being developed the right way, and not the wrong way. How many NBA players have you developed, exactly? How many successful NBA players have attributed their success to you, like those who have attributed their success to Hornacek?

Look at Lavine's and Bennett's efficiency stats.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... ach-lavine
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... ny-bennett

Now look at Warren's and Ennis' efficiency stats.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... /tj-warren
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... yler-ennis

Warren is shooting 45.5%, on 40% from 3. Ennis is shooting 45% and 33% from 3. Lavine? 40% and 25% respectively.

How do you know that Lavine's psyche isn't messed up? What if he doesn't rebound?

Point being, I trust Hornacek way more than I trust myself, or anyone else on this board that thinks they know the correct way to develop young talent. Hornacek has been cited multiple times by NBA players that have developed under him while at Utah.

So just because you think Minnesota is doing it the right way, doesn't mean they are. And honestly, they almost don't have a choice because how many young players they have on their roster. Who exactly is mentoring them on the team? Minnesota is owner to the 2nd worst record in the league, while we are sitting with the 12th best record, and in the 8th Playoff spot in the West.

We have issues for sure, and I certainly don't think that we are positioned for greatness anytime soon, but honestly, what is your plan to get us better, that doesn't involve the pipe dream of trading away our garbage for an NBA star? Do you really think we should sit all of our starters and start Ennis/Goodwin/Warren/Kieff/Len? This way we can lose more games and draft 7th? 9th? whatever? I certainly don't. We already own the LAL pick--that's our high lotto pick in the next year or two, which would make two in 4 years, along with a handful of other later 1st rd picks. We'll get there, but yes, it might take another season or two.

Good post. I don't agree with all of it due to matter of opinion but you make great points.

[JTrain]

^this. While Goodwin, Warren and Ennis are warming the bench for the Suns, those rookies and sophomores on those teams are getting actual playing which is helping them make mistakes and learning from it and develop.

I'm sure these guys are developing in practice against our vets. Sure, it isn't game experience, but you can't really expect us to put them in games where we are going into OT against Grizz, Clippers, in a tight game with the Spurs, etc. That would only piss off our current players and make them think we are not serious about trying to win.

I like the fact that they have to earn it. Len is playing awesome right now. But who knows if he would have had he gotten inserted as the starter a month earlier? I trust Horny's judgement on this more than anyone here, and I admit I wanted him to start too.

I am fully confident that those guys will get playing time if and when they deserve to, and it will be the right time. If we are out of it, then maybe it is worth it, but why not want to at least try and make the playoffs? Do you really not want that and to get our players a taste of the playoffs? I think that experience is more important than Ennis and Warren having to go against experienced great teams and getting demoralized in key situations.

We have zero chance of making playoffs barring a trade. I think its delusional and illogical to expect this team to make playoffs. Suns are only even in the conversation for playoffs because they lucked out due to injuries OKC had.

OKC is back healthy now. Suns have lost to all teams are close with them for the playoff spot (Spurs, Pelicans, Thunder). We won't make it and quite frankly, we don't deserve it.

Last season I thought we deserved playoffs even though we didn't make it because of how we played without Bledsoe for such a long stretch. However this season based on our play, we don't deserve it imo and we won't get it.

So sure while the mantra of "Fight til we're eliminated!" sounds like a great motivational cliche, its not practical.

OKC is back healthy now, and getting blown out by the Kings! Then barely squeaking by Utah at home. They may yet make the playoffs, but to consider it a given is ignoring what's actually happening on the court.

[bwgood77]

OKC is back healthy now, and getting blown out by the Kings! Then barely squeaking by Utah at home. They may yet make the playoffs, but to consider it a given is ignoring what's actually happening on the court.

Funny thing is I got a notification, just read your response, and thought you were responding to my finals prediction. But then I realized you were not even responding to me. My thoughts on their chances are in the prediction thread, but in response to your thoughts above.

I know what is happening, but I also know this is the same team that when healthy, has pretty much been the best team in the west the last 3 years, and I think their two stars were getting better before getting derailed by injuries. I think they just haven't gotten their cohesiveness together yet.