Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

[Scutt]

double post, my bad.

[Scutt]

again

[bigfoot]

Well I did say "if we got him". "If" it dd happen (I think we have the pieces to make it happen if we wanted), wouldn't you start him?

Of course. He would open the floor for Dragic and Bledsoe like Frye did.

So you think he is unattainable? Or would he cost too much to get?

Unattainable unless Holiday is injured for the season. Replacing Jimmer's minutes with IT doesn't make sense. They are set at SG with Evans/Gordon. They just picked up Pondexter and dumped Rivers to solidify their SF spot. Do the really want Green or Marcus? Probably not.

[Superhuman]

Dragic
Tucker
Green

for
Wes Mathews
Nicolas Batum

That's almost as bad as some of the trades you propose in the d-league. Didn't know that was possible

Matthews/Batum are above average starters and Green/Tucker are just average starters at best. And I don't think Dragic would be enough to offset that, especially since they already have a PG in Lillard.

[Scutt]

It's funny when posters suggest trading everyone but the young players away. This team is pretty much nothing BUT young players.

The Suns have ONE player in their rotation under the age of 25, and that is ALex Len. In basketball terms, players who are 25 to 30 are what they are that point usually. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but it generally holds true. The Morris bros, Thomas, and Plumlee may refine their games somewhat, but they are role players. Dragic, Green, and Tucker are all in their primes right now and are not going to take their games to the next level and turn this team into a contender.

The ONLY two players in the Suns rotation that currently have the potential to be perennial All stars are Bledsoe and Len. For a team that is should to be rebuilding, that is not going to cut it. Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis may never be all-stars, but at least they the potential to be.

A rebuilding team shouldn't have a team full of role players, scraping for the 8th seed. Goodwin and Warren could be the next up and coming players in the league, like Jimmy Butler or Draymond Green, but its more important that the Suns have Tucker, Green, and Thomas on the roster trying to be the 8th seed at all costs. A rebuilding team should keep capspace flexible for trades, not waste half of it on Thomas, Bledsoe, and the Morris Bros.

Reading some of these posts on here is quite comical. My favorites include, someone saying PJ Tucker and Goran Dragic wont even start to decline until they are both 35+. Another poster said we "had" to sign Thomas, because its not like if Bledsoe left, the Suns wouldn't have had other guards. Oh wait, they would have had two starters in Dragic and Green, and backups in Ennis and Goodwin. My favorite has to go to the poster who said, lets give this current roster a couple of years....

Our front office seemed to have made the same mistake many fans around here did. They confused overachievement for development. The Suns need to figure out a team oriented offense to run, and the coach needs to enforce it. They need to make a trade that get Ennis, Warren, and Goodwin in the rotation, even if its just a couple of minutes a night. If they do those two things, I think a lot of Suns fans frustrations will be eased.

[bwgood77]

Dragic
Tucker
Green

for
Wes Mathews
Nicolas Batum

I know we don't want to get rid of Dragic, but Mathews might be a better fit with Bledsoe. Batum is a smart wing, who can handle the rock, he hasn't been playing so well this year, so we might be able to buy low here. The Blazers do this to add another guard who can create their own shot, and have depth at the wing position.

IT
for
Jeremy Lin

I think Lin would be a good fit here, even coming off the bench. He's a smart high character guy. And just like that we get rid of two chuckers.

Portland's not gonna break up their lineup when they are second in the west and have perfect chemistry.

[grumpysaddle]

It's funny when posters suggest trading everyone but the young players away. This team is pretty much nothing BUT young players.

The Suns have ONE player in their rotation under the age of 25, and that is ALex Len. In basketball terms, players who are 25 to 30 are what they are that point usually. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but it generally holds true. The Morris bros, Thomas, and Plumlee may refine their games somewhat, but they are role players. Dragic, Green, and Tucker are all in their primes right now and are not going to take their games to the next level and turn this team into a contender.

The ONLY two players in the Suns rotation that currently have the potential to be perennial All stars are Bledsoe and Len. For a team that is should to be rebuilding, that is not going to cut it. Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis may never be all-stars, but at least they the potential to be.

A rebuilding team shouldn't have a team full of role players, scraping for the 8th seed. Goodwin and Warren could be the next up and coming players in the league, like Jimmy Butler or Draymond Green, but its more important that the Suns have Tucker, Green, and Thomas on the roster trying to be the 8th seed at all costs. A rebuilding team should keep capspace flexible for trades, not waste half of it on Thomas, Bledsoe, and the Morris Bros.

Reading some of these posts on here is quite comical. My favorites include, someone saying PJ Tucker and Goran Dragic wont even start to decline until they are both 35+. Another poster said we "had" to sign Thomas, because its not like if Bledsoe left, the Suns wouldn't have had other guards. Oh wait, they would have had two starters in Dragic and Green, and backups in Ennis and Goodwin. My favorite has to go to the poster who said, lets give this current roster a couple of years....

Our front office seemed to have made the same mistake many fans around here did. They confused overachievement for development. The Suns need to figure out a team oriented offense to run, and the coach needs to enforce it. They need to make a trade that get Ennis, Warren, and Goodwin in the rotation, even if its just a couple of minutes a night. If they do those two things, I think a lot of Suns fans frustrations will be eased.

The Suns have exactly one player in their rotation with a bunch of experience as a starter, Dragic, and even he doesn't have that much experience. None of the Suns players are OLD. The young, young guys will have time to develop slowly, while the rest of their guys HIT their prime. I don't know if anyone outside Dragic/Green/Wright have even gotten to their prime, maybe Tucker, but he's vastly improved his game in the short time he's been on the Suns.

I don't disagree that Warren/Ennis/Goodwin should get minutes here and there, but I do disagree that they should get minutes just because they are rookies and "need NBA minutes" or whatever. They will get their chances.

It would be a different story if this was the Suns after their WCF run. Almost all the players on that team were on the wrong side of 30. Every player on this team is on the right side of 30. This team is rebuilt, not rebuilding. It's looking for a few pieces, sure, but what team isn't? Real tired of the argument that you need to either be in 1st place or 30th. It's complete b*****.

[KLEON]

Does Arron Afflalo still plays good defense?

[RunDogGun]

Grumpy, don't quote him please. We've gone through and explain how little experience this team has at their positions. The only starter we have with a full season of starting experience at that position is Tucker. Goran has good starting experience, but that was a different position.

Oh well, we started the season with three players on their rookie contracts, and one a season removed from theirs. We have no seasoned vets, it's no wonder we are struggling in tough games.

[Scutt]

It would be a different story if this was the Suns after their WCF run. Almost all the players on that team were on the wrong side of 30. Every player on this team is on the right side of 30. This team is rebuilt, not rebuilding. It's looking for a few pieces, sure, but what team isn't? Real tired of the argument that you need to either be in 1st place or 30th. It's complete b*****.

That is the problem right there, saying this team is rebuilt. This team is rebuilt, BUT THEY LACK STARS! How can you possibly find or develop ones when you play a bunch of veterans that are in their prime and you have locked them up to long term deals that hurts your financial flexibility. Teams rarely find stars drafting with the 14th and 15th pick over and over again. We may have one in Warren, but he never gets to play, so who knows.

You are right, it doesn't have to be 1st or 30th, but how is playing Green, Thomas, and Tucker and ending up 9th seed, any worse than playing Goodwin, Ennis, and Warren and ending up 10th or 11th seed. I will be honest, I don't mind Warren and Ennis not being in the rotation, its Goodwin not getting a shot that bothers me. So many nights, the Suns let Green and others chuck up 3's and no one drives to the basket. Those are the times, Goodwin should get some burn and allowed to do what he does best, get to the hole. He is in his 2nd year, and by all accounts has an excellent work ethic and is a gym rat, the Suns need to find a way to get him a consistent 10 minutes a night.

[Puff]

What is our biggest need? Lots of folks say a bigger and better PF is our biggest need.

I have been on the same bandwagon as those that think that.

After suffering through watching some of the ugliest basketball ever played I have come to the conclusion that our biggest need is a point guard and or a 3 that is a legit playmaker as well as willing to do more than shoot jump shots.

I really question whether any or the 3 point guards we have are really point guards in the truest since of the word. Bledsoe, Goran and the midget are really at best combo guards and rarely make their teammates better. I like Bledsoe but it is horrible to watch him trying to lead the team down the stretch. We rarely get good shots and isn't that why we have lost virtually every close game this year? Unless we make a shot out of our arse or a defensive play we are going to lose and we have the vast majority of time.

I doubt that we can turn that group into a better Point guard but maybe when can find a legit playmaker at the 3 similar to Hayward in Utah. I would trade either Bledsoe or Goran for him in a heart beat. I just remember how effective we were with Nash and Boris taking turns running the offense. It seemed as though we always got a good shot and we had a legit shot at winning virtually every night.

We do not need a stretch 4 or more 3 point shooters we have plenty of those. We need someone to create better shots for everyone and that should not be just one guy.

Just my two cents.

[thamadkant]

I would trade Dragic and Green for Hayward.

Because both are either expiring or can opt out, their values are slightly lower than if they were signed long term.

Hayward can be the play making do it all SF suns can use.

[RunDogGun]

Why would Utah?

[bwgood77]

I would trade Dragic and Green for Hayward.

Because both are either expiring or can opt out, their values are slightly lower than if they were signed long term.

Hayward can be the play making do it all SF suns can use.

The only person they MIGHT trade Hayward for is Bledsoe, since some of their guys are in their 5th year as well, and Exum may take a few years (and may work better as a 2 anyway though Quin Snyder has already played Exum and Burke together and has also said he just thinks of them as guards). Burke is probably a career backup.

But then of course they'd have a hole to fill at the 3, so it doesn't make a ton of sense if they feel they can develop slowly given the toughness of the WC anyway.

Nah, I guess the more I think about it they wouldn't trade him for Bledsoe either. We at least would need to add Green or something and then still probably not.

[letsgosuns]

What is our biggest need? Lots of folks say a bigger and better PF is our biggest need.

I have been on the same bandwagon as those that think that.

After suffering through watching some of the ugliest basketball ever played I have come to the conclusion that our biggest need is a point guard and or a 3 that is a legit playmaker as well as willing to do more than shoot jump shots.

I really question whether any or the 3 point guards we have are really point guards in the truest since of the word. Bledsoe, Goran and the midget are really at best combo guards and rarely make their teammates better. I like Bledsoe but it is horrible to watch him trying to lead the team down the stretch. We rarely get good shots and isn't that why we have lost virtually every close game this year? Unless we make a shot out of our arse or a defensive play we are going to lose and we have the vast majority of time.

I doubt that we can turn that group into a better Point guard but maybe when can find a legit playmaker at the 3 similar to Hayward in Utah. I would trade either Bledsoe or Goran for him in a heart beat. I just remember how effective we were with Nash and Boris taking turns running the offense. It seemed as though we always got a good shot and we had a legit shot at winning virtually every night.

We do not need a stretch 4 or more 3 point shooters we have plenty of those. We need someone to create better shots for everyone and that should not be just one guy.

Just my two cents.

I agree 100% with you about the point guards. Everyone talks about how they are the strength of the team but I think they can also be the biggest detriment. Yes they are arguably the Suns best players offensively right now, but none of them are true point guards. None of them create easy shots for teammates. When I think of top point guards, I think of guys that average at least 8-9 assists a game, not guys that score a lot. I do not believe a scoring point guard is a winning formula in the NBA. That is why I have mentioned recently that watching this team to me is like watching Stephon Marbury all over again, except the Suns have three Marburys.

Alex Len should be getting around ten shots a game every night and be set up for easy opportunities. Gerald Green should never take the ball down the court and the point guards let him. It seems like every possession the Suns have to work incredibly hard to get a shot off. They are also actually a very bad team this year in the fast break department even though they score a lot of points that way. I always see them turn the ball over on fast breaks or make the break far more difficult than it should be.

If I had to choose, I would take Bledsoe over Dragic and Thomas. The reason why is because of Bledsoe's defense and I believe he has the potential to be an 8+ assist a night player. I think there is no way Dragic or Thomas can approach that and they certainly do not play defense like him. Dragic looks to shoot as his first and second option and then only passes if he cannot get a shot off. He is a ball hog. He is not a ball stopper, just a ball hog. Thomas is a ball stopper and a ball hog. The absolute worst thing you want from a 5'9" player. They both have scorers mentalities. That is who they are. I also think Bledsoe can be a ball hog too but ultimately I think he is the purest point guard of all three of them.

[RunDogGun]

How do the point guards "let" Green bring the ball up? Are they supposed to run up and steal the ball out of his hands?

Our sfs should know better than to bring the ball up the court. They should get it to a better dribbling guard. Goran ran the point just fine last season, and I don't see many point guards better than Bledsoe, Goran, and IT, and very few that would be attainable.

We needed a guy who could guard the four/five spot, and I think Wright might work. It would be nice if we could move him in quickly. Our guards have done well finding bigs in the middle before, let's see if they can again. Bledsoe/Plumlee was a great connection at the beginning last season. Bledsoe has been a bit careless with the ball this season, and Goran hasn't really run the point that much. With two guys like Len and Wright who can finish very well, numbers like assists should improve.

[thamadkant]

Why would Utah?

But I didnt say its a LIKELY trade.

I said "I would trade".... Me, as in "IF" "I" was given the choice regardless of external factors, "I" would do the trade.

[RunDogGun]

Why would Utah?

But I didnt say its a LIKELY trade.

I said "I would trade".... Me, as in "IF" "I" was given the choice regardless of external factors, "I" would do the trade.

And you would need Utah, as the team who has the rights to Hayward, you know, Utah.

I never said it was a likely or unlikely trade, I just didn't see the angle for Utah to trade Hayward, and your retort didn't clear that up at all.

[Puff]

What is our biggest need? Lots of folks say a bigger and better PF is our biggest need.

I have been on the same bandwagon as those that think that.

After suffering through watching some of the ugliest basketball ever played I have come to the conclusion that our biggest need is a point guard and or a 3 that is a legit playmaker as well as willing to do more than shoot jump shots.

I really question whether any or the 3 point guards we have are really point guards in the truest since of the word. Bledsoe, Goran and the midget are really at best combo guards and rarely make their teammates better. I like Bledsoe but it is horrible to watch him trying to lead the team down the stretch. We rarely get good shots and isn't that why we have lost virtually every close game this year? Unless we make a shot out of our arse or a defensive play we are going to lose and we have the vast majority of time.

I doubt that we can turn that group into a better Point guard but maybe when can find a legit playmaker at the 3 similar to Hayward in Utah. I would trade either Bledsoe or Goran for him in a heart beat. I just remember how effective we were with Nash and Boris taking turns running the offense. It seemed as though we always got a good shot and we had a legit shot at winning virtually every night.

We do not need a stretch 4 or more 3 point shooters we have plenty of those. We need someone to create better shots for everyone and that should not be just one guy.

Just my two cents.

I agree 100% with you about the point guards. Everyone talks about how they are the strength of the team but I think they can also be the biggest detriment. Yes they are arguably the Suns best players offensively right now, but none of them are true point guards. None of them create easy shots for teammates. When I think of top point guards, I think of guys that average at least 8-9 assists a game, not guys that score a lot. I do not believe a scoring point guard is a winning formula in the NBA. That is why I have mentioned recently that watching this team to me is like watching Stephon Marbury all over again, except the Suns have three Marburys.

Alex Len should be getting around ten shots a game every night and be set up for easy opportunities. Gerald Green should never take the ball down the court and the point guards let him. It seems like every possession the Suns have to work incredibly hard to get a shot off. They are also actually a very bad team this year in the fast break department even though they score a lot of points that way. I always see them turn the ball over on fast breaks or make the break far more difficult than it should be.

If I had to choose, I would take Bledsoe over Dragic and Thomas. The reason why is because of Bledsoe's defense and I believe he has the potential to be an 8+ assist a night player. I think there is no way Dragic or Thomas can approach that and they certainly do not play defense like him. Dragic looks to shoot as his first and second option and then only passes if he cannot get a shot off. He is a ball hog. He is not a ball stopper, just a ball hog. Thomas is a ball stopper and a ball hog. The absolute worst thing you want from a 5'9" player. They both have scorers mentalities. That is who they are. I also think Bledsoe can be a ball hog too but ultimately I think he is the purest point guard of all three of them.

I agree with you on Bledsoe even if he is my biggest disappointment this year. When he has been good he has been fantastic. However he has been a non factor far too many times to be making the money he is making. That said I would still prefer him over Dragic and the midget. Bledsoe at least attempts to play team basketball. I like Dragic as well but IT is demanding too many minutes.

I think the 3 PG line up says a lot about the guys we have playing the three. None of them can make a play to help anyone else score. Green actually tries at times and Marcus does pass to his brother but does Tucker even pass the ball?

I repeat our biggest weakness is at the 3. This is where we really need help. We have needed it since Boris was sent packing by Kerr to try to make the Terry Porter fiasco work.

It seems like all of the really good teams in recent memory have had an outstanding SF/SG that could score as well as help others score. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Ginobili, Jordan to name a few. The Spurs have been struggling mightily with Leonard on the sideline.

I know he is not liked by a lot of fans but Gerald Green is really the biggest difference maker we have, IMO. You can see the frustration every time he is pulled. Even with his dumb plays I want him on the court more. Maybe with more playing time he will not force things so much. IT has really taken minutes away from Green. IMO that is not a good thing. I know Green certainly is not perfect but I think he is a player that really should get more court time. I also agree he has no business bringing the ball up the court. But he can be devastating going to the hoop. If I were the coach I would have far more plays designed for both Green and Alex Lynn. It seems like he is our designated chucker. Last year he carried this team along with Goran. He has regressed due to limited playing time, IMO.

My bet is that if we trade Green or he signs on somewhere else as a free agent this summer he is going to turn into a monster wherever he lands. What Sun is going to guard him if he ends up in LA this summer?

[Revived]

I would trade Dragic and Green for Hayward.

Because both are either expiring or can opt out, their values are slightly lower than if they were signed long term.

Hayward can be the play making do it all SF suns can use.

The only person they MIGHT trade Hayward for is Bledsoe, since some of their guys are in their 5th year as well, and Exum may take a few years (and may work better as a 2 anyway though Quin Snyder has already played Exum and Burke together and has also said he just thinks of them as guards). Burke is probably a career backup.

But then of course they'd have a hole to fill at the 3, so it doesn't make a ton of sense if they feel they can develop slowly given the toughness of the WC anyway.

Nah, I guess the more I think about it they wouldn't trade him for Bledsoe either. We at least would need to add Green or something and then still probably not.

Bledsoe, Green, Tucker for Hayward?