If the Bulls were to change the starting front line

[fleet]

As discussed previously:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rafael_uehara/status/555097587129532418[/tweet]

Thibs wants it to work so bad, he's forcing the issue, and straight up not coaching. I don't know what else you can call it besides not coaching.

I don't think it's fair to say that he isn't coaching just because he is not yet willing to change the starting line up, this could change.

Remember when the 04-05 Bulls went 0-9? And then went on a massive run. Skiles didn't really change the line up, or rotation, he simply stuck with it. Now this isn't exactly the same situation, considering that we still have a really strong record, but it's not it wouldn't be all that surprising if Thib's continues with this starting line up and gives the team room to grow and breath, as opposed to changing it up because of a little bump in the road.

For the record, I'd like for him to insert Taj in for Noah, but at the same time, if Thib's doesn't, I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's because Thib's isn't coaching the team either - that would seem like a temper tantrum type of response in limited losing streak. Remember, it wasn't long ago when we were winning a long string of games together.

It's time to be a little weary, but I don't think it's time to panic either, which I think many fans are doing right now.

Seems to me it hasn't worked much all year. If you want to frame it like fans having a reaction based on a few losses, and call fans who have a certain viewpoint on this having temper tantrums and given to panic...pretty unfair and a little bit of an insult. It is coming to a head, and the losses have highlighted a problem that has existed, I believe, not in our hysterical minds after a down period, but on the court all season long.

[fleet]

I think when a lineup doesn't work, a coach demands improvement. If he makes a demand without accountability/change when he does not get the improvement, he is not coaching, and he is losing the team.

[errisal]

The bigger question is how much should Noah be allowed to play down the stretch of a game where the Bulls need offense to either win the game or get out in front of the opposing team. It boggles the mind how many times Thibs keep putting Noah on the floor during crunch time with the team either trailing or needing a bucket to ice the game. Noah has absolutely no offensive move that would put the other team at threat and that's one less option this team needs. Niko and Pau should always be the option at the end of the game.

[cool007]

I definitely think Noah should come off the bench. Hope he understands and be a team player.

Instead of Bulls going to Pau in the post, I would like to see we start off with Taj in the post. I also want to see more pick and roll with Rose and Pau by the 3pt line in. I also like to see a set 3pt shooter at the 2 or 3 (MDJ would provide this).

That would be just really good. Teams would have to pick thier poison.

They would have to stop Taj in the post, then with Rose/Pau pick and roll/pop they would have to contain Rose going to the hoop or if they trap, then Pau is open at the ft line or can roll to the hoop. If Taj's man helps, then Pau gives alley-oop to Taj. If MDJ's man helps then it's a 3pt shot for him. If Butler's man tries, then Jimmy cuts and an and-1 happens.

So many possibilities - when all 5 players can score/shoot. I really think Thibs should try that for atleast a few games.

[cool007]

As discussed previously:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rafael_uehara/status/555097587129532418[/tweet]

This clearly shows what Eye-Test also shows that Gasol/Gibson and Noah/Mirotic lineup do well. Now Thibs need to realize this and make a change. Noah needs to not take this wrong way and be a team player.

I think Thibs feel obligated to play both Noah and Gasol together coz they made a pitch to Gasol to convince that it will work. Noah had a big hand in recruiting Gasol so Thibs wants Noah next to him I think.

I think Thibs needs to forget the sentiment and just make the change. Just do it.

[samwana]

Jo is the superior player to taj when healthy, he isn't right now and he is part of the reason for the slow starts. He just doesn't have the mobility to guard 4's at the moment.

Start taj and let Jo play with the 2nd unit so he can guard the opposing teams center. If he looks good let Jo finish the game, and if he starts to look consistently good put him back in the starting lineup.

Jo may be the superior Center to Taj, but he definitely is not the better PF of the two. Noah at PF is hurting the team bad, b/c he is too slow to recover from the stretch 4 guys he is guarding. Therefor he is not there to swoop up the rebounds and to defend the paint against penetrators. Jo should move back to center.

Another season where Thibs refuses to tinker with the starting line-up and the team is losing because of it.

Basketball is a team game and if any player can't come of the bench because his ego can't handle it, I'm sorry than there is no place for that ego on a team. Thibs shouldn't pamper these guys and look what Pop and other coaches are doing and find the right combinations of players to win games and not pamper ego's.

It is frustrating to watch another season of these stubborn rotations especially if so many other options are available.

[DASMACKDOWN]

The thing is everyone knows this.

The one thing that can be said so far, was even in preseason, they never looked cohesive. This is now nearly 40 games in and they still look as bad as the first time.

I think if you were Thibs or anyone else, you have to say, what are we measuring when you have both Pau and Noah on the floor?

Can we say, we are dominating the glass?
Can we say we have multiple scoring threats?
Can we say we are locking down on defense?

Basically the answer is no to all of them when you have Pau and Noah.

If you switch Noah for Taj and or Niko, you could argue that 2 of those categories, you can give a confident yes to.

--

I said during the last game that playing Noah at PF is sort of like playing Niko at SF. It can work yes, but they are far more effective playing their natural positions. Noah being at center and Niko at PF. Nikos overall effectiveness gets nerfed when he plays the 3 and Jo looks well...awkward when he has to play the 4.

[logical_art]

I don't know what's holding up Thibs making a change. The numbers make it obvious. Watching the team makes it obvious. Noah and Gasol are the worst pairing of bigs we have. Noah is injured. Let him come off the bench. If he can't handle it, make that public and let it be known that all his talk about wanting to win a ring in Chicago so bad isn't really true.

[SpinninHouse]

I think the Noah problem might cost us dearly in the end. Thibs will not bench him under any circumstance even though he's our fourth best big by a wide margin. He should be playing in a limited role off the bench will Pau, Taj and Mirotic claim the lion share of the minutes.

If this continues for the rest of the season with no improvement from Noah, it could cost a the Eastern Conference championship.

[AirP.]

We need to look at our most probable players on the court with the front line, of those only Butler and Rose seem to sure to play with the 2 bigs.

Now with that being said, the top 2 bigs with Rose and Butler based on net points per 100 possessions with 48 minutes together the minimum.

Rose, Butler and...
Gibson, Gasol +6.4 (153.8 minutes)
Noah, Gasol +5.4 (428.2)

If we drop the minimum lower to 24 minutes(much smaller sample size) we get...
Rose, Butler and...
Mirotic, Noah +40.6 (28.8)
Mirotic, Gasol +6.4 (34.8)
Gibson, Mirotic -11.9 (26.2)
Gibson, Noah -35.4 (27.2)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... y=diff_pts

So perhaps we should look at what the major players do together for who starts and who doesn't. It would seem Gasol works with the other 3 bigs, the same can't be said of the others and as we know, Noah isn't 100% yet so of course his contributions aren't where they should be.

If you only look at the 2 player combos it should be noted that the best player to play with D.Rose is A.Brooks.

[MC3]

I think the Noah problem might cost us dearly in the end. Thibs will not bench him under any circumstance even though he's our fourth best big by a wide margin. He should be playing in a limited role off the bench will Pau, Taj and Mirotic claim the lion share of the minutes.

If this continues for the rest of the season with no improvement from Noah, it could cost a the Eastern Conference championship.

It will cost us possible championship title(S) if he insist because of his own ego, this season, next season or season after in that combination. And then your window is closed. There are good amount of chances Noah will because of Thibs become new Kurt Hinrich.

[dice]

schanowski advocating for noah off the bench:

http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/it-time-bulls-split-pau-gasol-and-joakim-noah?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

[dice]

Rose, Butler and...
Gibson, Gasol +6.4 (153.8 minutes)
Noah, Gasol +5.4 (428.2)

i'll do the exact same analysis and add dunleavy, which makes more sense anyway because a team has 5 players on the floor:

starting lineup with gibson -0.1 (95:19)
starting lineup with noah +5.4 (276:20)

either dunleavy is taj's kryptonite or these sample sizes are much too small

[AirP.]

Rose, Butler and...
Gibson, Gasol +6.4 (153.8 minutes)
Noah, Gasol +5.4 (428.2)

i'll do the exact same analysis and add dunleavy, which makes more sense anyway because a team has 5 players on the floor:

starting lineup with gibson -0.1 (95:19)
starting lineup with noah +5.4 (276:20)

these sample sizes are much too small

I just don't know if MDJ is going to be utilized all that much with Rose and Butler come playoff time. I think that other wing position is up for grabs still and could get "patched" with someone not on the roster yet.

The point though was that you can't just look at 2 player combos because of the other players on the court making a huge difference. 1 different player can change how the team plays both offensively and defensively.