If You Put Yourself In The FO's Shoes...

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I've been seeing all kinds of talk here the past few weeks about the team's flaws and what should be done about them, and I feel like a lot of the talk about the latter has been somewhat impulsive and over-emotional. I'm not going to rip anybody for that, because at the end of the day, caring about the team that much is what this place is all about, but all the same, I thought it'd be good to try to take a more level-headed look at our flaws and why the FO might not being doing as much as some think they should to fix them.

First off, the idea of moving Taj for a wing...I was one of the board's biggest proponents of moving Taj for a wing in the summer and earlier in the season, but I've changed my position on that, for two reasons. The first is that I don't think there are any available wings left outside of Afflalo that would be worth Taj, and even then, this recent stretch has made me question the idea of moving Jimmy to the 3 more than I had before. Jeff Green had been my #1 Taj target, but he's gone now. The second reason is that given Noah's continued struggles, it just doesn't seem like it would be smart to move Taj and not get a big back right now. To do so would put undue pressure on an aging Gasol and a rookie Mirotic to produce at a high level for 32+mpg on a consistent basis next to Noah, with virtually no other dependable bigs outside of those three. If Noah was playing like Noah, yeah, but he's not, so, you have to adjust. Plus, to add a third reason, GarPax probably feels like after making the guy think he was going to finally be a starter and then pulling it out from under him, and after trying to use him to sell Melo, that they owe it to him to at least wait until the summer.

That brings me to Noah himself. I see a lot of people clamoring to trade Noah. This bothers me on several levels. On one level, the guy played his heart out for us the last couple of years without Derrick, he was our heart and soul, and he was a fan-favorite in a way that not many players ever are, and yet, a lot of you are so quickly ready to just wash your hands of him after only a half-season of poor play. It's very 'what have you done for me lately?' I get that he hasn't been good, but I feel like people are getting on him on a personal level, and the reality is that it's not his fault that his knee got messed up, it's not his fault that a marquee FA signing forced him into playing most of his minutes this season at a position where he's never played any significant minutes in his career next to a player he's never played with before. He's not playing well and it's, of course, duh, absolutely fine, to discuss that and be frustrated with it, it's the whole point of these forums, but there's no reason to hate on the guy when he's given the team so much of himself. I mean, imagine how frustrated he must be with the way his season's been going.

All that said, the other level it bothers me on is that you can't simultaneously say 'he's no good anymore' and 'let's trade him for a good wing'. His trade value is arguably at an all-time low, and I just think it's unrealistic to think that, given his play this season, his injury that our FO still won't reveal, and his 13M price tag, anyone is going to give us anything that would make the deal worthwhile, that would make us a better team now or in the future. There's a legitimate angle for wanting to trade Noah, which is that if the FO has any doubts about paying him in 2016, then they need to get something for him if possible rather than let him walk for nothing, but even if that's the road we're going down, we've got to wait for him to bounce back a little and have some value on the trade market again. And I do believe he will get back to being a productive, positive player, even if it's not this season.

We can keep going down the list, and there are legitimate reasons not to trade nearly every player we have.

Mirotic probably has one of the highest trade values on the team atm, but he's young, playing very well for a rookie, oozing with potential, only making mle money, and locked up for two more seasons after this one. You can't just trade that for a mid-season replacement. It would have to be something legit and long-term, and I have no idea what that would be at this point.

MDJ is probably the most mentioned name in trade proposals for a wing, and it's usually in tandem with Snell. The problem is that if you you trade MDJ for a wing, you probably upgrade your starting lineup, but you don't do anything to address your wing depth situation - in fact, if it's both MDJ and Snell going out, the wing depth situation probably gets worse. You might be starting Jimmy and Wilson Chandler or Jimmy and Afflalo or Jimmy and Kevin Martin or Jimmy and whoever, but your wing depth will be reduced to Hinrich and McDermott(when he gets back)(unless Thibs relents and plays Mirotic at the 3), which means Jimmy probably would still be playing 38+mpg. You really want to rely on those two as your only wings off the bench in the playoffs? We'd probably have to hope we could strike gold on the post-deadline buyout heap to get some wing depth, or that McDermott comes back and all of a sudden figures it all out and becomes a key rotation player. And I know Ray Allen is a name that comes up a lot, but the last we heard was that he was leaning towards retirement, so I wouldn't be counting on him walking through the door.

McDermott himself might be an interesting trade piece because of potential, but that's all anybody would be trading for atm, because his actual production hasn't been good so far. I really don't know how much trade value he'd have, and after essentially using two firsts and a second and dumping Greg Smith to get him, I doubt the FO wants to give up on him yet.

Hinrich is another guy that a lot of people want to see gone, but I mean...our FO is uber-loyal to him, he has veto power this season, and he has little trade value. The likelihood of him getting traded is so slim as to not even be worth discussing, imo.

And Aaron Brooks is on a minimum salary and so couldn't bring back much on his own anyway.

I haven't mentioned Rose, Jimmy, or Gasol, because Rose is Rose(and I remain confident he can still be that guy, because I feel like right now the excessive three-point shooting is the only big thing in the way), all signs point to the FO maxing Jimmy out, and Gasol is not getting traded after he just took less to come here to try to win a championship - it would send all kinds of terrible signals to future potential FAs.

My point with all of this is that, if you put yourself in GarPax's shoes, they're in a tough spot. Noah's struggles have made trading him or Taj prohibitive, and moving the MDJ+Snell combo to upgrade our starting SF will leave us with even bigger wing depth issues than we have now. It's like no matter what move they make, there will be new holes, new flaws.

The most realistic trade scenario is the MDJ/Snell thing, and I feel like if that happens, Mirotic is going to have to play SF.

And yes, we may need to make an adjustment with Noah, at least just for the rest of this season if things don't change - if not coming off the bench, maybe Bogans-ing him so that most of his minutes come as the backup C. If we do that, trade for a wing like Chandler, and play Mirotic at the 3, we could have something like this:

Gasol(32)/Noah(16)
Noah(9)/Taj(30)/Mirotic(9)
Chandler(25)/Mirotic(15)/McDermott(8)
Jimmy(36)/Chandler(12)
Rose(32)/Brooks(16)/Hinrich

I feel like that's one of the more realistic things I can come up with atm, and it's basically a combination of a small-ish trade and some coaching adjustments on Thibs' part.

That's it, really. My main point is that if you look at things objectively, one can sympathize with the front office's position right now and see that there are problems with trading anybody given the roster's current construction. I'm not saying we shouldn't make any moves before the deadline, I'm just saying, I can understand why they might not given the totality of the circumstances.

[RedBulls23]

If the FO does trade MDJ, then we have to hope that McD can pick up his 3 point shooting when he comes back. It's a big down grade behind the arc from MDJ to Wilson Chandler.

[Tenchi Ryu]

It's a big down grade behind the arc from MDJ to Wilson Chandler.

I'll take it though cause of the rest. Chandler will be able to play more minutes, thus easing the need for a backup wing a bit more, defend the athletic players that MDJ can't guard, and actually dunk the ball in transition.

[RedBulls23]

It's a big down grade behind the arc from MDJ to Wilson Chandler.

I'll take it though cause of the rest. Chandler will be able to play more minutes, thus easing the need for a backup wing a bit more, defend the athletic players that MDJ can't guard, and actually dunk the ball in transition.

That's fine, but this team does need guys to stretch the defense for Rose and Jimmy. Just saying that McD would need to step up his game.

And maybe it happens.

[TimRobbins]

Thr FO has it very very simple. You trade for Aflalo. Not doing that trade is inexcusable.

[Googjob]

I think you guys are underrating Dunleavy. He gives them much needed spacing and is a solid team defender. The Bulls are 3-4 without him this season.

Chandler is a nice player but his talents overlap with what they have in Butler. They need shooters to pair with Rose and Butler.

[kingkirk]

Great post, OldSchool. Enjoyed the objective analysis. Was a good read.

[Michael Jackson]

Thr FO has it very very simple. You trade for Aflalo. Not doing that trade is inexcusable.

Noah for Lebron. Cleveland needs a big man right now so it makes perfect sense.

[Leto]

The only thing I disagree with is the notion that we can't trade Gasol because other FAs won't want to sign here. It's an urban legend created on this forum, but has no basis in fact.

I think it would be a good idea to try for Chandler using Dunleavy, Moore and Brooks. Then sign Nate to replace Brooks. In the off season, we can trade Gasol. He is the problem with our team.

Edit: Let me qualify that: We should trade Gasol in the off season if things don't turn around. However, I don't think Gasol fits on this team.

[TimRobbins]

Thr FO has it very very simple. You trade for Aflalo. Not doing that trade is inexcusable.

Noah for Lebron. Cleveland needs a big man right now so it makes perfect sense.

Lebron = Aflalo? Seriously? Aflalo is available for expirings and picks.

[drosestruts]

It's humurous to me that the majority of trades around the league are able to be made thanks to one team having a large expiring contract they're willing to attach a pick too. The Bulls currently have no such contract available and we act like it's a bad thing we only have resonable contracts.

As far as upgrading the team it looks like we'll be able to find someone who gets cut from a team. We need wing depth and reports are suggesting the Celtics will release Chris Douglas Roberts after acquiring him in a trade. He's a player I was interested in this summer and him not finding a groove in LA this season doesn't bother me. Rivers hasn't been able to properly incorporate several wing players, it looks like his new strategy is to field a team without wings which is fine with me.

Going after CDR would be my move.

[MrSparkle]

I really think the FO did a good job this off-season. Prior 2 summers were frustrating (even considering the Rose dilemma). They stood too pat IMO. They could've aggressively moved for some new faces to develop, instead they kept their stock in Deng, Hinrich and the mid-1st picks. Last season was pretty tedious. Yeah, it was nice to see Jimmy'Noah/Taj/DJ will us to a winning season, but that doesn't discount the fact that we had a bottom-rated offense (brutal to watch when you think about it) and a faint chance of the 2nd round.

But you know, with Niko, Pau, Brooks, McD + Bairstow, E. Moore... keeping Snell... I can't fault any of these decisions. Great pickups in my book, besides for the evaluation of McD and Snell. That's obviously pending... with Snell more and more looking like a guy not worth waiting on. He's getting more chances and opportunity, but some of his late-reactions are just mind-boggling to me, as if he has some visual/reaction-time impediment. He has the size and skills to be a high-quality starting wing (like Green, Sefolosha, etc.), yet I have no faith in his development.

If I had to guess, the team's struggles have everything to do with Noah and Rose... and I'm not really "blaming" them. I'm willing to give them time to play into shape. Noah has another setback... but one definite concern, is we have no defined leader at this point. Seemed like Jimmy was ready to be the guy, but clearly Rose is getting back to being the man with the volume of shots and possessions, but he's not setting the tone on either end... and I don't really expect him to.

In SAS, it's an easy chain to follow:

Pop -> Duncan -> Parker -> Leonard -> the rest

It's a very logical and brilliant chain. Duncan is HOF, and even at his old age, capable of leading and setting an example on both ends of the floor. Parker is also a proven champ and floor general that gets the job done on both ends. Leonard is a 2-way beast, 3rd in command only cause of his youth. I'd see Manu is outside the chain; a veteran you respect, and you give him free reign to kinda play outside the system because he's so good at what he does and has enough experience to do it.

We should be completely analogous to that, but several problems come up. First off, every year has been different.

Thibs -> Rose/Deng -> Noah
Thibs -> Deng/Noah -> Kirk
Thibs -> Noah -> Kirk/Jimmy/Taj
1st half of season: Thibs -> Jimmy
Now: Thibs -> ?

Rose isn't talking much on court, but now he's also not setting the tone on either end. Jimmy is looking fatigued and we're barely at the half-way mark. Noah is playing out of position and out with injury again. Taj is pushed deeper into the rotation as we have a very talented (and much needed) shooter at his spot. Pau (our most experienced and talented vet) is in a sense still going through Thibs training camp. Kirk can barely stay in front of a lamp-post at this point.

In many ways, it's fair to say this was coming. I can be positive in a sense, because I believe Pau is too smart to not come out a better player with Thibs' tutelage. I just wonder whether he might be a little too old for this program. You can tell he has the emotional energy to do the right thing on defense, but can you expect a 34 with heavy championship/international resume to rotate hard every play and challenge his knees with intense defensive practice drills? I'd like him to lead more, but at $6m, was he brought in for that purpose?

I don't know whether FO tinkering can help this team. I'd like T. Prince for some more defensive help and mentorship (though he's not that good a defender at this point)... trading for talent might not be the answer, 3 months into the season.

I vote we give the keys to Jimmy, but it's like he's handing them back to Rose the last month... and we've looked like a considerably worst team. It's not like you can just ignore Rose's ego and magically fix the team's struggles, though. The FO isn't to blame here. They spent their money VERY well this summer. I don't think anyone can be blamed... I'd just like to see Rose relinquish his MVP mentality to Jimmy, kind of how Wade officially passed the torch to Lebron.

Rose is a young guy, so I'm not discounting the possibility of him improving back into a form, but it's unreasonable to expect him to lead a contender after all he's been through. He still has all the talent in the world, but in addition to his physical precautions, he's got some psychological issues that need time to heal. He, Thibs, Jimmy and Noah need to sit down and have a talk.

[clancyphile]

I think the FO did a very good job as well. Pau Gasol was a huge bonus.

I think, though, they don't have their best five starting. D-Rose, Jimmy, Mirotic, Gasol, and Noah are th ebest five the Bulls can put in.

That said, I see three problems:
1. Noah's health. The Bulls have excellent frontcourt depth, it's time to use it. Give Noah a couple of weeks to get healthy, and let Gasol, Mirotic and Taj carry the load. The Bulls need a healthy Noah for the playoffs. Get him healthy now.

2. Wing depth. Doug McBuckets was supposed to be taking a lot of minutes at SF... but he's been hurt. So that's made SG/SF a bit of a mess. Time to see if Snell can carry rotation time... and if not, cut losses.

3. D-Rose/Jimmy synergy. This is a high-class problem. Jimmy Butler and Derrick Rose are, IMO, the best backcourt. Both can step up and dominate games, and as D-Rose gets back into NBA shape, this will be a good thing. D-Rose has been used to carrying the offensive load... and it is time that it gets explained to him that he doesn't have to any more.

[jacoby1us]

clancyphile hit it right on the $!
Now is the time to let Noah rest until maybe the end of February. Use the freaking depth of our bigs and let them play. Snell has to show signs of life or get off of the boat. Other than that I believe we will be fine as Derrick Rose is turning the page towards regaining his true presence on the court.

[clancyphile]

clancyphile hit it right on the $!
Now is the time to let Noah rest until maybe the end of February. Use the freaking depth of our bigs and let them play. Snell has to show signs of life or get off of the boat. Other than that I believe we will be fine as Derrick Rose is turning the page towards regaining his true presence on the court.

The other big thing is that the development of Jimmy Butler and the acquisition of Gasol means that teams can no longer key on D-Rose. If they do, there are others who can make them pay for that decision.

Luol Deng was able to do that to an extent, but not the way Butler and Gasol can.

[DanTown8587]

..

Front offices don't decide who plays or how much so it's unrealistic to say Noah's role in the rotation is going to change that much. You can't trade Gasol (as much as Leto wants to say it doesn't matter, if you sign a FA and ask him to take less money like Gasol did with the Lakers and then he performs well enough to be a starter in the ASG and you trade him after one year, players aren't going to trust you) and you can't trade Gibson (he fits too well with Gasol and can play with Noah). So that leaves Niko and Noah as the guys to trade if you want to upgrade the wing position. Niko has a ton of value but he's also super young compared to the other three big men and he's also the only one on the upside to his potential where as Noah is a lifelong Bull.

Here's what I imagine the FO says to themselves: "We really liked McDermott and he's not playing so before we make any trade on the perimeter, I need to see McDermott play and really gauge how all-in I want to go with this core this year. I''m not trading Noah for short term pieces because he's not 100% and I trust him to play himself to there like he has every year in his career."

You also give up a vital point of the Bulls offense (outside shooting) with a Dunleavy trade and what hole is Chandler fixing, secondary perimeter defender?

[bearadonisdna]

All i think is that u put noah at center and there u go.
I think the bulls weakness is they lack threats on the perimeter.
Gasol is permeter oriented enough to assist in that as a c.
As a center he may be too perimeter oriented and keeps him away from the rim and hurt our rebounding.
Seriously i think flip flop these two.
I thought the bulls lacked peremiter threats as a positional malfunction, but then i relaized Butler and Rose are two good enough perimeter threats and could supplement perimeter scoring with a guy like gasol who creates his own offense from the perimeter.
Noah can create offense offense ont he perimeter as well but mostly for others.

[Leto]

..

Front offices don't decide who plays or how much so it's unrealistic to say Noah's role in the rotation is going to change that much. You can't trade Gasol (as much as Leto wants to say it doesn't matter, if you sign a FA and ask him to take less money like Gasol did with the Lakers and then he performs well enough to be a starter in the ASG and you trade him after one year, players aren't going to trust you) and you can't trade Gibson (he fits too well with Gasol and can play with Noah). So that leaves Niko and Noah as the guys to trade if you want to upgrade the wing position. Niko has a ton of value but he's also super young compared to the other three big men and he's also the only one on the upside to his potential where as Noah is a lifelong Bull.

Here's what I imagine the FO says to themselves: "We really liked McDermott and he's not playing so before we make any trade on the perimeter, I need to see McDermott play and really gauge how all-in I want to go with this core this year. I''m not trading Noah for short term pieces because he's not 100% and I trust him to play himself to there like he has every year in his career."

You also give up a vital point of the Bulls offense (outside shooting) with a Dunleavy trade and what hole is Chandler fixing, secondary perimeter defender?

I won't disparage your beliefs, but I'll ask the same question I ask everyone who thinks we can't trade Gasol because of some percieved ill-will: When, if ever, will it be okay to trade Pau Gasol?

[logical_art]

Thr FO has it very very simple. You trade for Aflalo. Not doing that trade is inexcusable.

Nope. They have a better SG already. We've seen how Jimmy has done since MDjr has gone down and he's been forced to go against larger players.

[Wont PerDont]

Thr FO has it very very simple. You trade for Aflalo. Not doing that trade is inexcusable.

Nope. They have a better SG already. We've seen how Jimmy has done since MDjr has gone down and he's been forced to go against larger players.

What larger players has Jimmy gone up against as a result of Dunleavy being out?