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Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#941 » by JBreezeNY » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:22 pm

mpharris36 wrote:Also if Phil has begged Towns as our guys. And we end up winning the lottery. You could also trade down to 2 or 3 and gain extra picks and draft towns.

Just an option, if Phil and the scouts think Towns is the right player, especially with the consensus of Okafor being the #1 pick.

ToHoleWithSoul wrote:Yeah. Someone mentioned a scenario yesterday where we win the lottery and LA drafts second. We trade the pick for Randle and #2...but is the #1 pick in this draft worth a talent like Randle and the #2? I'd probably do that deal.

If there is any possible way of getting the #2 & a 2016 pick I'd do it.

I think there is a lot pressure on us to win the #1 pick strictly because of the options we'll have compared to having the #2 or #3 pick.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#942 » by Johnny Hoops » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:23 pm

I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#943 » by mpharris36 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:29 pm

Johnny Hoops wrote:I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.


because trades happen after the 1st round is complete. So the knicks would obviously pick Okafor the consensus #1 and then whoever picks Towns whether he goes 2, 3 or 4. We can start negotiations with them possibly.

The Chargers knew Eli wasn't going to play for them but instead of picking Rivers with the first they leveraged there value and picked Eli. Now the giants got the better part of the deal there but the situations can be similar. You pick Okafor and then you can discuss options of trading him if they aren't in love with him.

Who knows Phil could love Okafor and this could all be mute. Just throwing out a scenario.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#944 » by BallSacBounce » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:30 pm

Johnny Hoops wrote:I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.


Because they'll be afraid you will make a trade with someone who does.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#945 » by PMFJB » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:31 pm

BallSacBounce wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.


Because they'll be afraid you will make a trade with someone who does.

If we are lucky to get the #1 pick and Phil trades it or picks anyone other than Okafor he should be fired on the spot.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#946 » by Johnny Hoops » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:21 pm

BallSacBounce wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.


Because they'll be afraid you will make a trade with someone who does.


But if Towns is the only guy we want -- they (sitting at #2) are the only one we can trade with -- if you assume they would take Towns.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#947 » by Johnny Hoops » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:22 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.


because trades happen after the 1st round is complete. So the knicks would obviously pick Okafor the consensus #1 and then whoever picks Towns whether he goes 2, 3 or 4. We can start negotiations with them possibly.

The Chargers knew Eli wasn't going to play for them but instead of picking Rivers with the first they leveraged there value and picked Eli. Now the giants got the better part of the deal there but the situations can be similar. You pick Okafor and then you can discuss options of trading him if they aren't in love with him.

Who knows Phil could love Okafor and this could all be mute. Just throwing out a scenario.


Ok - that is reasonable. Yes - Phil may be wetting himself over Okafor.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#948 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:00 pm

I sort of hope the Knicks get neither Towns or Okafor, just so I don't have to deal with the Towns vs Okafor post wars on these forums for 5 years
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#949 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:17 pm

PMFJB wrote:
BallSacBounce wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.


Because they'll be afraid you will make a trade with someone who does.

If we are lucky to get the #1 pick and Phil trades it or picks anyone other than Okafor he should be fired on the spot.

:roll:

Unless Phil, his scouts, and everyone else in the FO thinks that it shouldn't be Okafor...
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#950 » by Marty McFly » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:25 pm

Johnny Hoops wrote:I had suggested trading #1 for #2 but some responded with a good point -- why would 2nd team trade with you if they think you don't want Okafor?

I had suggested a trade down with say Minny at #2. Knicks pick up Zach Levine, future pick and still pick Towns at #2. Minny gets Okafor at #1.


i doubt they'd do that. maybe they'd consider dealing wiggins for the first if they got the second pick, that way they draft both towns and okafor, but you have to think they're just going to have to get as much young talent as possible. it's kinda hard to do that by trading lavine and a future pick to move up a spot.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#951 » by siar617 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:20 am

Okafor is a better passing Eddy Curry. Nice piece but we need better. Don't understand why people want him and not Monroe.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#952 » by Jheri Curl » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:13 pm

I'd prefer Okafor over Towns....I think Okafor has a better chance of being a great offensive/good defensive player than Towns has of being a good offensive/great defensive player. I rather get a PF who can be the primary defender who protects the rim and help out on the pick and roll. Towns can do that right now but we need a guy who can help out offensively.

I think we have a better chance of signing a defensive role playing big man compared to signing a legit second star.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#953 » by moocow007 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:17 pm

Willie Caulie-Stein is like a weird combination of Andre Drummond and Javale McGee.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#954 » by Jheri Curl » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:18 pm

siar617 wrote:Okafor is a better passing Eddy Curry. Nice piece but we need better. Don't understand why people want him and not Monroe.

Okafor has shown more upside than Greg ever had....much more dominant in the paint. Doesn't get pushed around as easily. Has already improved as a rebounder in his short college career. Has a much better chance of becoming a good defender in the paint due to his size and willingness to commit, Greg is a bit soft in that area. All those things I've listed can also apply to Curry. He'd also be much cheaper in the short run, Okafor could probably come into the league right now and produce at similar levels to Greg.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#955 » by Jheri Curl » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:20 pm

moocow007 wrote:Willie Caulie-Stein is like a weird combination of Andre Drummond and Javale McGee.

Ironically enough, I like WCS more than Towns even though he's less talented offensively. That guy is a real defensive standout, he even holds his own out on the perimeter and gets into the passing lanes.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#956 » by mpharris36 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:22 pm

Jheri Curl wrote:
moocow007 wrote:Willie Caulie-Stein is like a weird combination of Andre Drummond and Javale McGee.

Ironically enough, I like WCS more than Towns even though he's less talented offensively. That guy is a real defensive standout, he even holds his own out on the perimeter and gets into the passing lanes.


just ridiculous
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#957 » by BeagleBoss » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:05 pm

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/01/15/nba-bi ... uel-mudiay

Say we end up 4th, who do we take between WCS and Stanley Johnson?
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#958 » by sasso » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:18 pm

Great breakdown of Okafor's high offensive IQ:

Film Session: Duke center Jahlil Okafor
By Fran Fraschilla | ESPN Insider

Duke center Jahlil Okafor has 140 post-up points this season, good for one of the highest rates ever.

Players such as Duke’s Jahlil Okafor don’t come around college basketball very often. In fact, unlike in the days of Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon and even Tim Duncan, they don’t stay very long, either.

So enjoy watching this 6-foot-11 freshman now before he leaves for the NBA draft in June. He will be the No. 1 pick.

I’ve watched Okafor since after his freshman year at Chicago’s Whitney Young High School. I worked with him at the LeBron James Skills Academy and saw him dominate international competition at the FIBA Under-19 World Championship in Prague before his senior year.

What makes Okafor so special is that he knows who he is as a player. Blessed with a unique combination of great agility, soft hands, keen timing and fundamentally sound footwork, he operates almost exclusively in the low post. This is his playground, even though he could operate on the perimeter effectively if he chose.

I’ve tried to watch every offensive possession of Okafor’s freshman season, and I have come away impressed as a coach. He is shooting 68 percent from inside the arc, with most of those shots coming at the rim. I can’t remember, in the past decade or more, a freshman who has more back-to-the-basket polish than he does. In fact, according to Synergy, since 2006-07 only six major-conference players have scored at least 250 points on post-ups. Okafor is poised to join this group.

Player School Year G Points PPG
Jahlil Okafor Duke 2014-15 15 140 9.3
Greg Oden Ohio State 2006-07 32 298 9.3
Blake Griffin Oklahoma 2008-09 33 269 8.2
Festus Ezeli Vanderbilt 2010-11 34 272 8.0
JaJuan Johnson Purdue 2010-11 34 266 7.8
Jared Sullinger Ohio State 2011-12 37 286 7.7
Jared Sullinger Ohio State 2010-11 37 272 7.4

Let’s look closer at Okafor’s game and break down some of the things he does exceptionally well as a post player.

1. Catch and Look Middle

In the low post, Okafor almost always catches and looks middle. By doing this, he gets to read 95 percent of the floor.

When he looks over his inside shoulder, Okafor can locate where his own defender is. If the defender is on the high side, Okafor can spin baseline easily because of his uncanny footwork. And if the defender plays behind, Okafor will work the ball off the dribble to the middle of the lane, where he can use his jump hook.

By looking to the middle of the floor, Okafor can locate the help-side defense in anticipation of double-teams, along with the guards who will “drop and dig” on the basketball. It’s not unlike a quarterback reading defensive coverages to pick up a blitz. And finally, when Okafor looks to the middle, he can locate his teammates spotting up or cutting to the basket.

Here against UConn, Okafor sees that Huskies defender Phillip Nolan is playing erect, limiting his lateral quickness, and that the help-side defender is hugging his own man. So Okafor spins to the basket somewhat unimpeded and dunks.

Here in Duke’s win at Wisconsin, Okafor catches and looks middle again, and when Badgers defender Nigel Hayes stops his spin move to the baseline, Okafor stays patient. See how he uses his dribble to play back to the middle before spinning again to the baseline and scoring.

By the way, Okafor, unlike a lot of young post players, is equally adept at posting on either block and over either shoulder with excellent effectiveness. This keeps teams from treating him like a one-armed bandit and forcing him to a weak hand.

Hall of Fame coach John Chaney used to say: “The middle is 'we,' the baseline is 'me.' " In other words, if you look to the middle, you can do more for your team and yourself. That epitomizes the effectiveness of Okafor in the low post.

2. Play off the lane

Okafor also operates well just off the lane in the low post, where he can face up to make a quick move or back into the post off the dribble.

I always had a rule for feeding the low post. We tried to pass from the wing below the foul line extended. If you drew a direct line from the passer to the low-post player to the basket, you could see that the pass took the post player to the basket if the defender played on the top side, or would put the post in a position to catch the ball in the lane.

In this sequence, notice how Quinn Cook -- the passer -- is set up in a direct line with Okafor and the basket. This allows the big man to catch the ball as deep as he possibly can. In this case, Okafor catches the pass with one foot in the paint. This allows him to turn and shoot at close range over his smaller defender.

If we fed the low post from above the foul line extended, that entry pass from the wing on a straight line would take the post player off the lane. That was not an optimum play for me as a coach because, for most college post players without an offensive repertoire, that would render them ineffective.

Fortunately, when the Blue Devils feed Okafor above the foul line extended on a pass that takes him off the lane in this sequence, it still puts him at an advantage. He has the shooting touch to make shots straight on or off the backboard from 10 feet. And he is mobile enough to drive to his left and his right and then spin off pressure when necessary.

3. Play the high-low game

In Duke's recent game versus Wake Forest, Demon Deacons coach Danny Manning (a pretty good college post player in his own right) had 6-9, 255-pound Devin Thomas trap Okafor as soon as he caught the ball in the low post. This good, hard double-team took away his ability to be patient and survey the floor and forced him into two early turnovers.

Interestingly, in Duke's loss at NC State on Sunday, Okafor struggled on a number of double-teams the Wolfpack sent his way early, but then quickly adjusted. He made a couple of quick post moves before the trap arrived. Then he passed to the opposite side of the floor or to fellow freshman Justise Winslow cutting. Finally, Okafor dribbled out of the trap to the perimeter, eliminated it, and then adroitly dribbled himself back inside to a one-on-one opportunity.

One of the ways to neutralize a post-to-post double-team -- and the only time I advocated a pass from above the foul line extended -- is to feed the ball from the high post, where the other defender has a greater distance to cover in order to trap. In the Blue Devils' case, they play the high-low game effectively, which allows Okafor to get two feet in the deep paint so he can utilize his offensive skills one-on-one.

Watch how Winslow and Okafor play high-low.

Okafor ends up sealing his man away from the basket to create room for a lob pass over the top of the defender. And Winslow’s defender is unable to get inside the double-team in time.

4. Broken plays

Because Okafor is so agile and fundamentally sound for his size, he can turn broken plays into points almost effortlessly. What are broken plays? These are plays that happen in a game that have very little to do with organized offense.

So, for example, when Okafor runs the floor, he can catch sometimes inaccurate passes on the move, gather himself with balance, and make soft touch shots. In addition, he is a terrific putback finisher on offensive rebound opportunities. Balls fall awkwardly into his hands and he’s not unprepared. Finally, he understands the geography around the basket and can contort his body and score even when he looks to be out of position.

Conclusion

The biggest challenge that awaits Okafor the rest of the season, in my opinion, will not be physical but rather cerebral. He is a dominant player on the college level and will require maximum attention from every opponent on Duke’s schedule.

Where he will continue to improve is in his already outstanding basketball acumen. Okafor faces a test of wits with some of the best coaches in the game in the ACC for the next two months. So he will need to be able to recognize the different defensive schemes designed specifically to stop him.

But don’t worry. He is a quick study, and it’s going to be fun to watch him grow up before our eyes before we say goodbye to him at the end of this college basketball season.
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#959 » by Jheri Curl » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:43 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Jheri Curl wrote:
moocow007 wrote:Willie Caulie-Stein is like a weird combination of Andre Drummond and Javale McGee.

Ironically enough, I like WCS more than Towns even though he's less talented offensively. That guy is a real defensive standout, he even holds his own out on the perimeter and gets into the passing lanes.


just ridiculous

What's so ridiculous about my post? Or are you agreeing :lol:
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Re: College Thread AKA Prospect Watch 

Post#960 » by Retired_Doc » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:18 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Jheri Curl wrote:
moocow007 wrote:Willie Caulie-Stein is like a weird combination of Andre Drummond and Javale McGee.

Ironically enough, I like WCS more than Towns even though he's less talented offensively. That guy is a real defensive standout, he even holds his own out on the perimeter and gets into the passing lanes.


just ridiculous


Actually, it's not ridiculous at all. Willie Cauley-Stein has the potential to become a DPOY.
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