Big Al's Paint: The Al Jefferson Thread

[Diop]

its not just his defence, his offence can disrupt other players as well.

he's gotta set better screens than he does, not just slip away. he also needs to occasionally get the hell out of the way to allow the guards to drive into the paint. we don't have shooters, we have athletes who attack the paint

[mrknowitall215]

I still don't think Al carried the team last year as much as natural development from the core and competent coaching. His weaknesses are so bad that even scoring at will a lot last year didn't garner all star consideration. He is not all-star caliber, he just isn't. Dude can't even set a proper screen.

Jefferson may have not carried the team to a postseason berth, but he was a important catalyst, and I just don't see how anyone could disagree with that

As far as not garnering All-Star consideration, that's only because he didn't start playing his best basketball until around the time the coaches started voting, so of course they wouldn't vote him in when the Hornets were outside of the playoffs looking in, and he possibly was just on a temporary hot streak. However, they honored him with a award that's a lot higher than All-Star consideration by voting him onto the All-NBA team after he sustained that high level of performance throughout the rest of the season

[BeesWax]

We've played top-5 defense this year with a hobbled Jefferson with MKG (without Stephenson) though. It's as if people want to throw out their own theories, use advanced stats when it's beneficial to their argument, but dismay it when it make their point moot

Stephenson has been by far worse than Jefferson this year, and has no track record that would make him appear to be a more net positive player moving forward

Have we? When Al has been on the court we score less and give up more per 100 possessions. According to NBA.com stats he is -9 per 100 while Biz is +5. Outside of Taylor he has our worst net rtg. Last season his two were closer and in our favor.

I'll find the post that showed us to still be a top-5 defense this year in spite of Jefferson's lack of effort with MKG in the lineup and with Stephenson out

Have Jefferson slowed our offensive production this year? Yes, because opposing teams have scouted 'Alfense', adjusted to 'Alfense', stopped 'Alfense', and Clifford has just been too stubborn or lacked creativity to try something different...or better yet, make Jefferson sit if he isn't healthy (until recently)

Playing on NBA.com stats on this and found that every negative net rating we have in difference between OFFRTG and DEFRTG has Al on the court. I hope we make sure he is in shape before he comes back. We need good Al not this seasons Al

[mrknowitall215]

Have we? When Al has been on the court we score less and give up more per 100 possessions. According to NBA.com stats he is -9 per 100 while Biz is +5. Outside of Taylor he has our worst net rtg. Last season his two were closer and in our favor.

I'll find the post that showed us to still be a top-5 defense this year in spite of Jefferson's lack of effort with MKG in the lineup and with Stephenson out

Have Jefferson slowed our offensive production this year? Yes, because opposing teams have scouted 'Alfense', adjusted to 'Alfense', stopped 'Alfense', and Clifford has just been too stubborn or lacked creativity to try something different...or better yet, make Jefferson sit if he isn't healthy (until recently)

Playing on NBA.com stats on this and found that every negative net rating we have in difference between OFFRTG and DEFRTG has Al on the court. I hope we make sure he is in shape before he comes back. We need good Al not this seasons Al

Were you able to find the same thing for Stephenson? Because the last time I checked, Stephenson was the worst net negative player on the team followed by Jefferson according NBA.com advanced stats, and that was just a few days ago

[BeesWax]

I'll find the post that showed us to still be a top-5 defense this year in spite of Jefferson's lack of effort with MKG in the lineup and with Stephenson out

Have Jefferson slowed our offensive production this year? Yes, because opposing teams have scouted 'Alfense', adjusted to 'Alfense', stopped 'Alfense', and Clifford has just been too stubborn or lacked creativity to try something different...or better yet, make Jefferson sit if he isn't healthy (until recently)

Playing on NBA.com stats on this and found that every negative net rating we have in difference between OFFRTG and DEFRTG has Al on the court. I hope we make sure he is in shape before he comes back. We need good Al not this seasons Al

Were you able to find the same thing for Stephenson? Because the last time I checked, Stephenson was the worst net negative player on the team followed by Jefferson according NBA.com advanced stats, and that was just a few days ago

Lance was in all but one unit. If you break it down to two then Al and Lance are the worst combo. But Al and Henderson and him and Kemba are the next two. As an individual Al is .9 points worse on defrtg and .3 better on offrtg for a net -.6 worse rating than Lance.

[mrknowitall215]

Playing on NBA.com stats on this and found that every negative net rating we have in difference between OFFRTG and DEFRTG has Al on the court. I hope we make sure he is in shape before he comes back. We need good Al not this seasons Al

Were you able to find the same thing for Stephenson? Because the last time I checked, Stephenson was the worst net negative player on the team followed by Jefferson according NBA.com advanced stats, and that was just a few days ago

Lance was in all but one unit. If you break it down to two then Al and Lance are the worst combo. But Al and Henderson and him and Kemba are the next two. As an individual Al is .9 points worse on defrtg and .3 better on offrtg for a net -.6 worse rating than Lance.

Well, that break it down to the fact that they've both been terrible individually, and horrendous together

Just my very own personal opinion, feel free to disagree, but if I were to put my faith in one of them moving forward recovering from injury it would be the one with a career 17 points per game (19 points per 36 minutes) and 21 PER over the one with a career 9 points per game (12 points per 36 minutes) and a 12 PER

[stinger14]

Were you able to find the same thing for Stephenson? Because the last time I checked, Stephenson was the worst net negative player on the team followed by Jefferson according NBA.com advanced stats, and that was just a few days ago

Lance was in all but one unit. If you break it down to two then Al and Lance are the worst combo. But Al and Henderson and him and Kemba are the next two. As an individual Al is .9 points worse on defrtg and .3 better on offrtg for a net -.6 worse rating than Lance.

Well, that break it down to the fact that they've both been terrible individually, and horrendous together

Just my very own personal opinion, feel free to disagree, but if I were to put my faith in one of them moving forward recovering from injury it would be the one with a career 17 points per game (19 points per 36 minutes) and 21 PER over the one with a career 9 points per game (12 points per 36 minutes) and a 12 PER

Right now, I agree that I would trust Al over Lance if I were choosing one of them. However, I want both of them traded. Any help or assets we get this year or the future is that much better for us.

[mrknowitall215]

Lance was in all but one unit. If you break it down to two then Al and Lance are the worst combo. But Al and Henderson and him and Kemba are the next two. As an individual Al is .9 points worse on defrtg and .3 better on offrtg for a net -.6 worse rating than Lance.

Well, that break it down to the fact that they've both been terrible individually, and horrendous together

Just my very own personal opinion, feel free to disagree, but if I were to put my faith in one of them moving forward recovering from injury it would be the one with a career 17 points per game (19 points per 36 minutes) and 21 PER over the one with a career 9 points per game (12 points per 36 minutes) and a 12 PER

Right now, I agree that I would trust Al over Lance if I were choosing one of them. However, I want both of them traded. Any help or assets we get this year or the future is that much better for us.

Jefferson is both coach & player friendly (I don't know how Clifford manage), with not many years left on his contract. It's almost just due to allow him to finish the final year or two of his contract after being All-NBA less than a year ago. The same way we view Jefferson as a give-and-take player that doesn't really make a team better, other GMs and fans are well aware, so there won't be a team willing to give us anything of definitively better value for Jefferson

For instance, the Nets can't get much but Stephenson or Thaddeus Young in exchange for their give-and-take big in Brook Lopez. I wouldn't trade Jefferson for Thaddeus Young, would you? As far as having cap space, we just have almost $20 million to spend this past season and only returned Marvin Williams & Brian Roberts (and Stephenson). I wouldn't trade Jefferson for the chance to sign likewise players via free-agency again, would you?

Instead of trying to acquire/play players that we believe could strengthen Jefferson's strengths, we should've been and need to acquire/play players that cover his weaknesses, and I can't say it any better than that

[stinger14]

Jefferson is no less of a defender than Nowitzki has been for Carlisle's prized defensive strategy in Dallas. Every team usually have at least one weak defensive link. We've managed to hide Jefferson in Clifford's scheme to a varying degree that could be better

Oh wow, you cannot compare the two of them at all. Dirk does not play center, Al plays center. The center is the anchor of the defense. Dallas realized their mistake and traded to get Tyson Chandler back. Chandler is the anchor, he is there to erase mistakes by others like Dirk. Biz does this for us, and Al, well not so much, in fact not at all. Remember how much better Portland got after signing Robin Lopez

Whoa whoa whoa, MKG is the anchor of our defense even with Biz out there. There isn't any premier scoring bigs in the NBA like over 10 years ago. The center is not the anchor of every defense but it would help if he could defend at a above average level and give some effort unlike Al.

FYI the Mavs have had good defenses without Chandler with Dejuan Blair midget self there. Chandler just make them a little better.

I think of MKG as our defensive stopper and Biz as the anchor. Your anchor is your last line of defense, aka your paint and rim protector. The 2 of them combined is fun to watch.

Dallas is a lot, lot, lot better with Chandler. That is why Cuban, Dirk, and the rest of that organization wanted him back so bad.

With Al, it's not just his guy that abuses him. It is his guy and anybody on the other team who can get the ball into the paint, he stops nobody. Teams go right at Al in 4th quarters because it is so easy. It has cost us terribly this year.

[stinger14]

Well, that break it down to the fact that they've both been terrible individually, and horrendous together

Just my very own personal opinion, feel free to disagree, but if I were to put my faith in one of them moving forward recovering from injury it would be the one with a career 17 points per game (19 points per 36 minutes) and 21 PER over the one with a career 9 points per game (12 points per 36 minutes) and a 12 PER

Right now, I agree that I would trust Al over Lance if I were choosing one of them. However, I want both of them traded. Any help or assets we get this year or the future is that much better for us.

Jefferson is both coach & player friendly (I don't know how Clifford manage), with not many years left on his contract. It's almost just due to allow him to finish the final year or two of his contract after being All-NBA less than a year ago. The same way we view Jefferson as a give-and-take player that doesn't really make a team better, other GMs and fans are well aware, so there won't be a team willing to give us anything of definitively better value for Jefferson

For instance, the Nets can't get much but Stephenson or Thaddeus Young in exchange for their give-and-take big in Brook Lopez. I wouldn't trade Jefferson for Thaddeus Young, would you? As far as having cap space, we just have almost $20 million to spend this past season and only returned Marvin Williams & Brian Roberts (and Stephenson). I wouldn't trade Jefferson for the chance to sign likewise players via free-agency again, would you?

Instead of trying to acquire/play players that we believe could strengthen Jefferson's strengths, we should've been and need to acquire/play players that cover his weaknesses, and I can't say it any better than that

We are not due to allow him to do anything, we owe him nothing. He had a very good year last year, and he was well paid for it. He has been here a couple years, not like he is a lifetime bobcat/hornet, so there is no sentemental side

The Nets were getting Perkins and Lamb, then flipping Perkins for Thad. That means they would have added Thad and Lamb for Brook. I would probably pull that trigger. You get a starting PF for your playoff run, and his contract expires at seasons end giving you offseason flexibility. You also add a very young, takented player who would be your future starting sg (maybe before year is over)

I agree about the type of players we signed, but we don't really know what all Cho has tried for in free agency or through trade. Maybe he went for the right guys, but deals fell through, or were not available, or certain free agents didn't want to come here.

[mrknowitall215]

Wow. If you don't think we owe a player that was All-NBA less than a year ago the benefit of the doubt or chance to get conditioned & healthy to see if he can return to last year's All-NBA form before writing him off for expiring contracts (Perkins) and players that might be lesser than the ones we already have (Lamb > Henderson?!? ) then I arrest my case since there's no way I can free your closed-mindedness from your beliefs

[BeesWax]

We owe Al nothing. If we want to wait and hope I understand but we owe him nothing. He chose to come into the season fat and play lazy. It was not that he tweaked a hammy and we are writing him off. He played some of the most painful defense I have ever seen to start the season and it was his fault. We don't owe him to see if he is going to do what he should have done before this season ever started.

[mrknowitall215]

We owe Al nothing. If we want to wait and hope I understand but we owe him nothing. He chose to come into the season fat and play lazy. It was not that he tweaked a hammy and we are writing him off. He played some of the most painful defense I have ever seen to start the season and it was his fault. We don't owe him to see if he is going to do what he should have done before this season ever started.

First of all, waiting and hoping is the same thing as 'owing' him the benefit of the doubt

Second of all, he came into the season in bad conditioning partially & probably primarily because he had to stay off his foot in which he suffered plantar fasciitis on as I'm sure the doctors' instructed

Third of all, it's been well documented that defense isn't a strength of his, but we still managed to be a better half of the league defense in spite of him

[mrknowitall215]

I don't understand the all-out hatred for Jefferson's game by some when he's notably one of the best scoring bigs in the entire NBA just because he has a glaring flaw. Virtually every player in the NBA has a flaw that coaches have to devise a strategy to cover

[BeesWax]

We owe Al nothing. If we want to wait and hope I understand but we owe him nothing. He chose to come into the season fat and play lazy. It was not that he tweaked a hammy and we are writing him off. He played some of the most painful defense I have ever seen to start the season and it was his fault. We don't owe him to see if he is going to do what he should have done before this season ever started.

First of all, waiting and hoping is the same thing as 'owing' him the benefit of the doubt

Second of all, he came into the season in bad conditioning partially & probably primarily because he had to stay off his foot in which he suffered plantar fasciitis on as I'm sure the doctors' instructed

Third of all, it's been well documented that defense isn't a strength of his, but we still managed to be a better half of the league defense in spite of him

First waiting and hoping is not owing at all. It is trying to take advantage of something we think can help our team and only makes sense if we think he can do it. Owing is waiting even when we do not think he can do it out of some bogus thought that we need to pay him back for last season.

Second he was supposed to be able to work out in the middle of the summer. He had plenty of time but burgers mean more to him than being a winner.

Third, we would be even better without him. Also the fact that we were being better on offense without him too really puts him in the back. We performed better on both ends with him off the floor. So if he is going to hurt our defense and not help our offense what is his point?

[BeesWax]

I don't understand the all-out hatred for Jefferson's game by some when he's notably one of the best scoring bigs in the entire NBA just because he has a glaring flaw. Virtually every player in the NBA has a flaw that coaches have to devise a strategy to cover

If it hurts the rest of the team and team output then what is the point? He sores great and so far this season it is at the detriment of the rest of the players on the team. He has two glaring flaws this season. 1) defense 2) his effect on our offense. He has made us notably worse this season and the fact that people love to try to gloss over that is baffling.

[mrknowitall215]

I don't understand the all-out hatred for Jefferson's game by some when he's notably one of the best scoring bigs in the entire NBA just because he has a glaring flaw. Virtually every player in the NBA has a flaw that coaches have to devise a strategy to cover

If it hurts the rest of the team and team output then what is the point? He sores great and so far this season it is at the detriment of the rest of the players on the team. He has two glaring flaws this season. 1) defense 2) his effect on our offense. He has made us notably worse this season and the fact that people love to try to gloss over that is baffling.

I won't even reply to your other quote, because it's too easy to debunk, but I'll entertain this one

As far as your points that you tried to make in this post, I'm in total agreement that Jefferson has been a detriment this season. I rage about it each game while watching it in the comfort of my own home of if I'm out & about. With that said, I blame Clifford for being so dependent on a struggling, bad conditioned, and injured Jefferson with Biyombo anxiously waiting in the wings --- or shall I say on the bench, but that don't make Jefferson expendable to a team void of scoring talent just because the coach don't know how to strategize around him instead of geared towards him

[MasterIchiro]

Biz' play and the teams play without Al must be at least forcing discussion amongst Cho, MJ and Clifford regarding the best plan moving forward. Part of that plan should be an openness to listen to offers on Big Al, namely from the 7 or so West teams scrambling for the final 2 playoff spots.

[mrknowitall215]

Biz' play and the teams play without Al must be at least forcing discussion amongst Cho, MJ and Clifford regarding the best plan moving forward. Part of that plan should be an openness to listen to offers on Big Al, namely from the 7 or so West teams scrambling for the final 2 playoff spots.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if I can recall you were one of the posters calling Biyombo a bust (or should be traded) about a few weeks ago before Jefferson got injured

[TheKingofSting]

I always thought Biz could start next season but I am fine with him starting now.