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LamarMatic7 wrote:There's always the possibility of giving him the Chicago Carlos Boozer treatment. Let him play first and third quarters.
I don't see anything that radical concerning Al happening this season though.
catch20two wrote:stinger14 wrote:catch20two wrote:To be consistent, Lance came into the season out of shape too and that's part of the reason why he's having hamstring and groin injuries. There you go.
I totally agree and have made it clear in the past that I am not happy with him. I have posted that I would trade him, and I wanted that deal earlier in the week. Most fans feel this way about Lance, so the question is, why does Al get the royal treatment from a lot of people? He has been as much and probably more of the problem than Lance.
What royal treatment do Al get from a lot of people? The only person that give him royal treatment is Clifford and I hate the fact that Clifford do.
My stance with Al is that he's one of the few maybe 2-3 players out of 15 on our team that can actually put the ball in the basket. And although he can't play defense for sh*t we still had and have a top 5 defense with him on the floor. I think we could consistently win big and not blow leads despite his bad defense if Cliff subbed him out when it's obvious that teams are going to exploit his pick-and-roll defense for 8 minutes straight in the 4th quarter.
jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:stinger14 wrote:
I totally agree and have made it clear in the past that I am not happy with him. I have posted that I would trade him, and I wanted that deal earlier in the week. Most fans feel this way about Lance, so the question is, why does Al get the royal treatment from a lot of people? He has been as much and probably more of the problem than Lance.
What royal treatment do Al get from a lot of people? The only person that give him royal treatment is Clifford and I hate the fact that Clifford do.
My stance with Al is that he's one of the few maybe 2-3 players out of 15 on our team that can actually put the ball in the basket. And although he can't play defense for sh*t we still had and have a top 5 defense with him on the floor. I think we could consistently win big and not blow leads despite his bad defense if Cliff subbed him out when it's obvious that teams are going to exploit his pick-and-roll defense for 8 minutes straight in the 4th quarter.
When Al is on the floor our defensive efficiency would be in the bottom 6 or 7 in the league. Our offensive efficiency would be in the bottom 2 during the same time. Our PPG numbers make it look impressive but that is because our pace is very slow. When Al is on the floor our pace is 94.07 possessions per 48 minutes which would put us in the Memphis range at 27th in the league. If you look at points per 100 possessions we are not ranked near as highly as PPG would suggest on offense or defense. Our pace as a team on the year is 23rd and we have upped that I am sure since Al went out.
catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:What royal treatment do Al get from a lot of people? The only person that give him royal treatment is Clifford and I hate the fact that Clifford do.
My stance with Al is that he's one of the few maybe 2-3 players out of 15 on our team that can actually put the ball in the basket. And although he can't play defense for sh*t we still had and have a top 5 defense with him on the floor. I think we could consistently win big and not blow leads despite his bad defense if Cliff subbed him out when it's obvious that teams are going to exploit his pick-and-roll defense for 8 minutes straight in the 4th quarter.
When Al is on the floor our defensive efficiency would be in the bottom 6 or 7 in the league. Our offensive efficiency would be in the bottom 2 during the same time. Our PPG numbers make it look impressive but that is because our pace is very slow. When Al is on the floor our pace is 94.07 possessions per 48 minutes which would put us in the Memphis range at 27th in the league. If you look at points per 100 possessions we are not ranked near as highly as PPG would suggest on offense or defense. Our pace as a team on the year is 23rd and we have upped that I am sure since Al went out.
With Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are 6th best defense in the league with a 99.9 DefRtg.
With Kemba/Lance/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are the 11th best defense with a 102 DefRtg.
Maybe Hendo is that much of a better defender than Lance or maybe he's just more familiar so it results in better defense.
MasterIchiro wrote:catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:When Al is on the floor our defensive efficiency would be in the bottom 6 or 7 in the league. Our offensive efficiency would be in the bottom 2 during the same time. Our PPG numbers make it look impressive but that is because our pace is very slow. When Al is on the floor our pace is 94.07 possessions per 48 minutes which would put us in the Memphis range at 27th in the league. If you look at points per 100 possessions we are not ranked near as highly as PPG would suggest on offense or defense. Our pace as a team on the year is 23rd and we have upped that I am sure since Al went out.
With Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are 6th best defense in the league with a 99.9 DefRtg.
With Kemba/Lance/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are the 11th best defense with a 102 DefRtg.
Maybe Hendo is that much of a better defender than Lance or maybe he's just more familiar so it results in better defense.
Could be that the first combo was with Al competing against reserves since Hendo was on the bench for most of those stats and Lance was the starter. That 2nd unit is worse on defense because they competed against frontline offense.
Hendo looks good by default.
catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:What royal treatment do Al get from a lot of people? The only person that give him royal treatment is Clifford and I hate the fact that Clifford do.
My stance with Al is that he's one of the few maybe 2-3 players out of 15 on our team that can actually put the ball in the basket. And although he can't play defense for sh*t we still had and have a top 5 defense with him on the floor. I think we could consistently win big and not blow leads despite his bad defense if Cliff subbed him out when it's obvious that teams are going to exploit his pick-and-roll defense for 8 minutes straight in the 4th quarter.
When Al is on the floor our defensive efficiency would be in the bottom 6 or 7 in the league. Our offensive efficiency would be in the bottom 2 during the same time. Our PPG numbers make it look impressive but that is because our pace is very slow. When Al is on the floor our pace is 94.07 possessions per 48 minutes which would put us in the Memphis range at 27th in the league. If you look at points per 100 possessions we are not ranked near as highly as PPG would suggest on offense or defense. Our pace as a team on the year is 23rd and we have upped that I am sure since Al went out.
With Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are 6th best defense in the league with a 99.9 DefRtg.
With Kemba/Lance/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are the 11th best defense with a 102 DefRtg.
Maybe Hendo is that much of a better defender than Lance or maybe he's just more familiar so it results in better defense.
stinger14 wrote:catch20two wrote:stinger14 wrote:
Him being outta shape is another example of him being lazy and selfish. Stop dunking cookies and doughnuts and start dunking the basketball. His teammates are doing there part, why should he get away with it. Biz spent his offseason doing crossfit and getting better. MKG worked on his shot. Zeller hit the weight room and got stronger. If it were Lance instead of Al, he would get constant ridiculing over it.
To be consistent, Lance came into the season out of shape too and that's part of the reason why he's having hamstring and groin injuries. There you go.
I totally agree and have made it clear in the past that I am not happy with him. I have posted that I would trade him, and I wanted that deal earlier in the week. Most fans feel this way about Lance, so the question is, why does Al get the royal treatment from a lot of people? He has been as much and probably more of the problem than Lance.
AttitudeAjusta wrote:stinger14 wrote:catch20two wrote:To be consistent, Lance came into the season out of shape too and that's part of the reason why he's having hamstring and groin injuries. There you go.
I totally agree and have made it clear in the past that I am not happy with him. I have posted that I would trade him, and I wanted that deal earlier in the week. Most fans feel this way about Lance, so the question is, why does Al get the royal treatment from a lot of people? He has been as much and probably more of the problem than Lance.
The attitude/off-court, character issues are what makes Lance the biggest problem on a team where chemistry/high character was one of our strengths.
The difference between Jefferson and Lance is that one of them is proven player, and good enough to give you high expectations and the other is so bad that he has most of us wondering wtf he was thinking on almost every play/turnover he makes.
catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:What royal treatment do Al get from a lot of people? The only person that give him royal treatment is Clifford and I hate the fact that Clifford do.
My stance with Al is that he's one of the few maybe 2-3 players out of 15 on our team that can actually put the ball in the basket. And although he can't play defense for sh*t we still had and have a top 5 defense with him on the floor. I think we could consistently win big and not blow leads despite his bad defense if Cliff subbed him out when it's obvious that teams are going to exploit his pick-and-roll defense for 8 minutes straight in the 4th quarter.
When Al is on the floor our defensive efficiency would be in the bottom 6 or 7 in the league. Our offensive efficiency would be in the bottom 2 during the same time. Our PPG numbers make it look impressive but that is because our pace is very slow. When Al is on the floor our pace is 94.07 possessions per 48 minutes which would put us in the Memphis range at 27th in the league. If you look at points per 100 possessions we are not ranked near as highly as PPG would suggest on offense or defense. Our pace as a team on the year is 23rd and we have upped that I am sure since Al went out.
With Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are 6th best defense in the league with a 99.9 DefRtg.
With Kemba/Lance/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are the 11th best defense with a 102 DefRtg.
Maybe Hendo is that much of a better defender than Lance or maybe he's just more familiar so it results in better defense.
stinger14 wrote:AttitudeAjusta wrote:stinger14 wrote:
I totally agree and have made it clear in the past that I am not happy with him. I have posted that I would trade him, and I wanted that deal earlier in the week. Most fans feel this way about Lance, so the question is, why does Al get the royal treatment from a lot of people? He has been as much and probably more of the problem than Lance.
The attitude/off-court, character issues are what makes Lance the biggest problem on a team where chemistry/high character was one of our strengths.
The difference between Jefferson and Lance is that one of them is proven player, and good enough to give you high expectations and the other is so bad that he has most of us wondering wtf he was thinking on almost every play/turnover he makes.
Team has more chemis try and high character right now without Al than they so with him. Al and his lazy/selfish play is not of high character, nor does it build chemistry. The only thing Al has ever really done in the league is make sure he gets his numbers. He has never been past the first round, but Lance has been, and yes playing with Deron Williams, Paul Millsap, Carlos Boozer, and others, he has had as much or more talent around him than Lance has, so even though much younger, he has accomplished things that Al has not. Look. I am not defending Lance because I want that trade for Lamb and Jack, but I am so sick of people blaming Lance, Hendo, or whoever they choose, yet denying the BIGGEST problem on the team. He is fools gold, and his name is Al Jefferson
Howard Mass wrote:You do not have the right to not be offended. Just because something is offensive to you does not mean that it breaks the board rules.
jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:When Al is on the floor our defensive efficiency would be in the bottom 6 or 7 in the league. Our offensive efficiency would be in the bottom 2 during the same time. Our PPG numbers make it look impressive but that is because our pace is very slow. When Al is on the floor our pace is 94.07 possessions per 48 minutes which would put us in the Memphis range at 27th in the league. If you look at points per 100 possessions we are not ranked near as highly as PPG would suggest on offense or defense. Our pace as a team on the year is 23rd and we have upped that I am sure since Al went out.
With Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are 6th best defense in the league with a 99.9 DefRtg.
With Kemba/Lance/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are the 11th best defense with a 102 DefRtg.
Maybe Hendo is that much of a better defender than Lance or maybe he's just more familiar so it results in better defense.
Replace Al with Biz and drop 11 on the DefRtg to 88.7 so with just replacing him with Biz we dramatically improve. That lineup has 115 minutes too so it is about the same court time. The offense suffers but Biz has positive results with both starters and reserves and does not rely on someone else covering for him every time he is on the court.
Thing is for Al to have a positive impact he has to play with MKG, Kemba, and Henderson. If either of those three are not in the lineup Al has a negative NetRtg. He chose to be in the shape he is in and it hurts the team. People are acting like it is unacceptable to ridicule him for that when they are more than willing to pick on other players for their flaws. Al should be picked on more than others because we know what he should be able to do but he chose not to care and hurt the team. Other guys are just limited by ability or experience where as he is limited by laziness and self motivation.
catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:With Kemba/Hendo/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are 6th best defense in the league with a 99.9 DefRtg.
With Kemba/Lance/MKG/Zeller/Al on the floor we are the 11th best defense with a 102 DefRtg.
Maybe Hendo is that much of a better defender than Lance or maybe he's just more familiar so it results in better defense.
Replace Al with Biz and drop 11 on the DefRtg to 88.7 so with just replacing him with Biz we dramatically improve. That lineup has 115 minutes too so it is about the same court time. The offense suffers but Biz has positive results with both starters and reserves and does not rely on someone else covering for him every time he is on the court.
Thing is for Al to have a positive impact he has to play with MKG, Kemba, and Henderson. If either of those three are not in the lineup Al has a negative NetRtg. He chose to be in the shape he is in and it hurts the team. People are acting like it is unacceptable to ridicule him for that when they are more than willing to pick on other players for their flaws. Al should be picked on more than others because we know what he should be able to do but he chose not to care and hurt the team. Other guys are just limited by ability or experience where as he is limited by laziness and self motivation.
Drop 11 in DefRtg and 12 in OffRtg with Biz replacing Al. Both are net positive lineups but it's slightly more positive with Al.
I don't think Al should be exempt from ridicule. I roast his fat ass all of the time and took a lot of crap for it when people wanted to point fingers at MKG's lack of a jumper and Kemba's shooting woes. I just dont think trading Al for expirings is the answer because it won't field much but more mediocre signings from Cho like Messy Marv and Urkel Roberts. We had 25mil to spend this offseason to find a player that could be our go to scorer and look at the results.
The same way nobody wanted to sign Al is the same way nobody want to sign with us.
jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:Replace Al with Biz and drop 11 on the DefRtg to 88.7 so with just replacing him with Biz we dramatically improve. That lineup has 115 minutes too so it is about the same court time. The offense suffers but Biz has positive results with both starters and reserves and does not rely on someone else covering for him every time he is on the court.
Thing is for Al to have a positive impact he has to play with MKG, Kemba, and Henderson. If either of those three are not in the lineup Al has a negative NetRtg. He chose to be in the shape he is in and it hurts the team. People are acting like it is unacceptable to ridicule him for that when they are more than willing to pick on other players for their flaws. Al should be picked on more than others because we know what he should be able to do but he chose not to care and hurt the team. Other guys are just limited by ability or experience where as he is limited by laziness and self motivation.
Drop 11 in DefRtg and 12 in OffRtg with Biz replacing Al. Both are net positive lineups but it's slightly more positive with Al.
I don't think Al should be exempt from ridicule. I roast his fat ass all of the time and took a lot of crap for it when people wanted to point fingers at MKG's lack of a jumper and Kemba's shooting woes. I just dont think trading Al for expirings is the answer because it won't field much but more mediocre signings from Cho like Messy Marv and Urkel Roberts. We had 25mil to spend this offseason to find a player that could be our go to scorer and look at the results.
The same way nobody wanted to sign Al is the same way nobody want to sign with us.
Yeah we struck out on Hayward who would have fit well here and is having a great season so we took a stab at Stephenson on a team friendly deal and kept all our flexibility for 2016 which was the point. Marvin may have stole your girl but he has been solid for us even if he is overpaid. If you want guys on shorter contracts you have to up the yearly amount to get them. I never said give him away for nothing but if you can find a team who will give anything decent it is worth it. If not he should not play more than 24 minutes until he proves he is going to try and is in shape.
Who in the world did you want us to sign this summer? I thought we made a play for our best fir but were limited due to RFA. After that we filled needs with what best fit what Clifford wanted and saved money for 2016. Did you think we were in the running for Lebron or Melo?
jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:jdm3 wrote:Replace Al with Biz and drop 11 on the DefRtg to 88.7 so with just replacing him with Biz we dramatically improve. That lineup has 115 minutes too so it is about the same court time. The offense suffers but Biz has positive results with both starters and reserves and does not rely on someone else covering for him every time he is on the court.
Thing is for Al to have a positive impact he has to play with MKG, Kemba, and Henderson. If either of those three are not in the lineup Al has a negative NetRtg. He chose to be in the shape he is in and it hurts the team. People are acting like it is unacceptable to ridicule him for that when they are more than willing to pick on other players for their flaws. Al should be picked on more than others because we know what he should be able to do but he chose not to care and hurt the team. Other guys are just limited by ability or experience where as he is limited by laziness and self motivation.
Drop 11 in DefRtg and 12 in OffRtg with Biz replacing Al. Both are net positive lineups but it's slightly more positive with Al.
I don't think Al should be exempt from ridicule. I roast his fat ass all of the time and took a lot of crap for it when people wanted to point fingers at MKG's lack of a jumper and Kemba's shooting woes. I just dont think trading Al for expirings is the answer because it won't field much but more mediocre signings from Cho like Messy Marv and Urkel Roberts. We had 25mil to spend this offseason to find a player that could be our go to scorer and look at the results.
The same way nobody wanted to sign Al is the same way nobody want to sign with us.
Yeah we struck out on Hayward who would have fit well here and is having a great season so we took a stab at Stephenson on a team friendly deal and kept all our flexibility for 2016 which was the point. Marvin may have stole your girl but he has been solid for us even if he is overpaid. If you want guys on shorter contracts you have to up the yearly amount to get them. I never said give him away for nothing but if you can find a team who will give anything decent it is worth it. If not he should not play more than 24 minutes until he proves he is going to try and is in shape.
Who in the world did you want us to sign this summer? I thought we made a play for our best fir but were limited due to RFA. After that we filled needs with what best fit what Clifford wanted and saved money for 2016. Did you think we were in the running for Lebron or Melo?
gehenherzog wrote:jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:Drop 11 in DefRtg and 12 in OffRtg with Biz replacing Al. Both are net positive lineups but it's slightly more positive with Al.
I don't think Al should be exempt from ridicule. I roast his fat ass all of the time and took a lot of crap for it when people wanted to point fingers at MKG's lack of a jumper and Kemba's shooting woes. I just dont think trading Al for expirings is the answer because it won't field much but more mediocre signings from Cho like Messy Marv and Urkel Roberts. We had 25mil to spend this offseason to find a player that could be our go to scorer and look at the results.
The same way nobody wanted to sign Al is the same way nobody want to sign with us.
Yeah we struck out on Hayward who would have fit well here and is having a great season so we took a stab at Stephenson on a team friendly deal and kept all our flexibility for 2016 which was the point. Marvin may have stole your girl but he has been solid for us even if he is overpaid. If you want guys on shorter contracts you have to up the yearly amount to get them. I never said give him away for nothing but if you can find a team who will give anything decent it is worth it. If not he should not play more than 24 minutes until he proves he is going to try and is in shape.
Who in the world did you want us to sign this summer? I thought we made a play for our best fir but were limited due to RFA. After that we filled needs with what best fit what Clifford wanted and saved money for 2016. Did you think we were in the running for Lebron or Melo?
We should have paid McBob whatever he asked for
catch20two wrote:We didn't strike out on Hayward. We wasted time on Hayward. Everybody knew hicktown Utah wasn't letting him go. All we did was tied up our money and made them pay more for him than they wanted.
Messy Marv was a horrible signing Mr. UNC and the numbers back it up.
As far as who I wanted us to sign, I wanted for us to try to retain as much of last year's team as possible from CDR to Tolliver on 1-year deals and try to get a legit backup PG with experience if possible like Jameer or MoWill. I woulda been comfortable with just preserving cap space until next year because I didn't like much of what I seen in this past year's free agency. I've had back and forths with LP about this all summer. I wasn't even too high on Stephenson because I feared he could ruin our good chemistry but once I seen we were interested in Deng I said why not. Paying Deng over 10mil woulda had me more pissed than anything.
jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:We didn't strike out on Hayward. We wasted time on Hayward. Everybody knew hicktown Utah wasn't letting him go. All we did was tied up our money and made them pay more for him than they wanted.
Messy Marv was a horrible signing Mr. UNC and the numbers back it up.
As far as who I wanted us to sign, I wanted for us to try to retain as much of last year's team as possible from CDR to Tolliver on 1-year deals and try to get a legit backup PG with experience if possible like Jameer or MoWill. I woulda been comfortable with just preserving cap space until next year because I didn't like much of what I seen in this past year's free agency. I've had back and forths with LP about this all summer. I wasn't even too high on Stephenson because I feared he could ruin our good chemistry but once I seen we were interested in Deng I said why not. Paying Deng over 10mil woulda had me more pissed than anything.
I feel for you I really do. Getting your woman stolen must have really hurt you deep to hold such a long grudge. Actually for what was out there he was not a bad signing but just an overpaid one.
So you wanted to keep guys who have been cut or can't see the floor on their new teams? No need to try to improve the squad lets keep what worked in a year where every other team tried to lose as much as possible. What you saw in last seasons FA was what you would see in this. I am sorry you are so hurt but what we did was the best thing we had as an option. We took a gamble that Utah would not match and they did. There were not other great options we were missing out in the meantime.
jdm3 wrote:catch20two wrote:We didn't strike out on Hayward. We wasted time on Hayward. Everybody knew hicktown Utah wasn't letting him go. All we did was tied up our money and made them pay more for him than they wanted.
Messy Marv was a horrible signing Mr. UNC and the numbers back it up.
As far as who I wanted us to sign, I wanted for us to try to retain as much of last year's team as possible from CDR to Tolliver on 1-year deals and try to get a legit backup PG with experience if possible like Jameer or MoWill. I woulda been comfortable with just preserving cap space until next year because I didn't like much of what I seen in this past year's free agency. I've had back and forths with LP about this all summer. I wasn't even too high on Stephenson because I feared he could ruin our good chemistry but once I seen we were interested in Deng I said why not. Paying Deng over 10mil woulda had me more pissed than anything.
I feel for you I really do. Getting your woman stolen must have really hurt you deep to hold such a long grudge. Actually for what was out there he was not a bad signing but just an overpaid one.
So you wanted to keep guys who have been cut or can't see the floor on their new teams? No need to try to improve the squad lets keep what worked in a year where every other team tried to lose as much as possible. What you saw in last seasons FA was what you would see in this. I am sorry you are so hurt but what we did was the best thing we had as an option. We took a gamble that Utah would not match and they did. There were not other great options we were missing out in the meantime.
