Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

[Qwigglez]

If the Suns were to make a trade, it should be during this homestand we have right now as they could get new players to get more practice time in since they aren't traveling.

Suns get-JJ Redick
Clippers get-IT

Suns get-Mirza Teletovic
Nets get-Gerald Green

Suns get-Paul George
Pacers get-IT/Plumlee/Warren/Archie Lakers 1st, Suns 1st

Any of the above small trades would work fine with me.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If the Suns were to make a trade, it should be during this homestand we have right now as they could get new players to get more practice time in since they aren't traveling.

Suns get-JJ Redick
Clippers get-IT

Suns get-Mirza Teletovic
Nets get-Gerald Green

Suns get-Paul George
Pacers get-IT/Plumlee/Warren/Archie Lakers 1st, Suns 1st

Any of the above small trades would work fine with me.

I get your point about integrating new guys in during the home stand. But I would probably wait and see how the next 8 games go. they would still be 2 weeks until the trade deadline. I doubt it happens but say they fall on their face and go 1-7 and all the sudden are a few games behind a red hot thunder team. At that point it's time to reassess goals and look to the future.

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[thamadkant]

Archie Goodwin's comments are being so blown out of proportion it is ridiculous.

90% of what he said was fine.

It's the "I'm not going to take it" bit that sounded rebellious. But let's take to account..
- he just won D league MVP, so he is emotional
- he is young, 20 years old and impatient.



McD probably touched base with him about that interview.

[letsgosuns]

Archie Goodwin's comments are being so blown out of proportion it is ridiculous.

No they aren't! Scrub-a-dub-dub time to drain the tub on this fool! Ain't never gonna be an NBA player!

No idea why you would say that but what I am trying to say is he did not say anything bad so who cares. All he said was he wants to play by next year and if they still do not play him, he wants to go somewhere where he can play. People are acting like he demanded a trade or something. I distinctly remember Steve Nash asking to be traded off the Suns so he could go some place where he could play because he was playing behind Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson. The only difference today is there are so many more media members that interview players so an incredible amount of information gets out now compared to the 90's. Archie's comments are so irrelevant. Thomas complained earlier in the season far worse after the Raptors game and no one said anything.

It is like that media storm about Lebron pushing his coach away so he would not get a technical. Suddenly the media calls it a headline of "Lebron shoves his coach." Are you kidding me? Anybody who understands anything about human emotion sees that all Lebron did was make sure Blatt did not get a technical. But the media is a horrendous bunch of pathetic reporters that wanna make something out of nothing for headlines.

The media has gotten so bad that they will take one quote from someone and spin it any way they want to get a rise out of people. Anybody with a smart phone has turned into a reporter. I hate it. And seriously, is Goodwin supposed to be content with not playing or something. The guy has handled everything the right way. He has waited his turn. Now he sees the Suns added another player in Bullock and is thinking what the hell? Yet he still keeps going down to the D-League and performing well. He is not sulking. He is a first round pick and a year and a half into his career basically gets zero minutes. He has a right to be angry. It is not like the players in front of him are all stars. They have never been before and they are not going to be this year. He has a lot of confidence in himself and believes he can play right now just like he said. I like his attitude personally. If the Suns gave Goodwin as many chances as they have given Plumlee, I think Goodwin would show everyone what he has.

[Son of Ra]

Would you guys do a Aminu + Ledo for Plumlee?

Keep your players, I think a late 1st or even a 2nd or two would be just fine with most here. We are over saturated with role/end of the bench players...

[WeekapaugGroove]

Another thing to keep in mind with Archie is if he's not completing for a rotation spot next year it's in the suns best interest to trade him while he still has some value of being in a rookie deal. Either way this situation will works itself out.

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[Son of Ra]

Archie Goodwin hasnt done anything, probably never will, and Miles Plumlee is the best 3rd string center in the league. who cares about either.

several of you have an obsession with archie, and i really dont know why.

Because he has potential.

I bet you were similar about Len last year.... actually let me search for that.

I totally agree with Scubetrolis here and I have been high on and defending Len all last season when most everyone was hating on him iirc.

Dleague means NOTHING. AT. ALL. Here is a list of the former dleague MVPs: http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbd ... s/mvp.html Ummm yeah. Goudelock had a few minutes with the tanking Lakers iirc.
****, Earl effing Barron is tearing it up there. And he's been in and out, more of the latter, of the league since he entered.

I have never seen a player looking less like an actual NBA player than Goodwin last season. Minus the Sacramento game. Yeah his attacks on the basket look flashy, but really he's like a chicken without a head. Running into 3 players without a plan and then just hoisting up a wild shot or turning it over somehow else. And 20 is not thaaaat young either anymore considering where his game is at. People comparing him and his potential to WADE (his 2009 - iirc - season was one of the single best seasons of all time) and DeRozan, seriously? U could have taken 20-year-old Wade's other meniscus out, bound one arm to his back, blindfolded him and he would still school Goodwin. You get the point

It was a nice gamble by McD, worth a late first but let's just remember his dunk on Valanciunas and ship him off for a 2nd.

[Sunsdeuce]

I'm in the mindframe athletes say things with an agenda. Archie is no different even if he is an immature kid. He spoke now he needs to own his words. Let's be honest here Archie isn't playing because he isn't better than the players playing in front of him. Even his college coach had issues with him. Sure the kid has skills but so do hundreds of other basketball players that don't make it in the NBA because their head isn't in the right place. I would rather move him a package deal for someone special. His BBIQ is at a high school level and I haven't seen much change in that regard. My opinion is he is about 2-3 more years away from contributing. I could be wrong. But it's up to him to grow up and play the right way.

I'm agree with hornack right now. He should not be a rotational player. On top of everything he doesn't real have a set position because of his weaknesses. He can't be a shooting guard because his shooting is horrendous and can't be a point guard because he doesn't have the skill set of a PG. The only thing he is good at now is getting to the rim but basketball is more than just that. So the only thing the team can do is send him down to the d-league.

Archie needs to stop worrying about making highlight reel dunks and focus on fundamentals.

[NavLDO]

Again the same people that in the trade thread said Len was better now and in the future are now saying "oh I never said he'd be as good." That's being insincere and inconsistent. Let's have this discussion in 3 years when we know what Len actually turned out to be, because Noah is about to be a pivotal player on a championship or bust team while Len may or may not ever turn out to be better than Robin friggin Lopez.

F that. I said he has a higher ceiling than Noah, and havent retracted that statement one bit.

I must admit, I'm curious as well as to which poster(s) said this. Kerrsed didn't change his stance, and there were only a couple of others that thought Len was as good, and I didn't see them change their stances, so who exactly made this change?

You keep making a point that posters are insincere and inconsistent with their analysis or opinions, and you haven't really proven that yet. So if you are going to make these accusations, I feel you should at least quote these, instead of making vague accusations.

But even still, if a poster has a change of heart on a subject, how do you know it's not after more information was provided to change their mind. I'd rather a poster do that than stick to an opinion that once more information was provided to counter the argument in a way that should change their mind. So, I guess I don't see the issue here.

[NavLDO]

I'm in the mindframe athletes say things with an agenda. Archie is no different even if he is an immature kid. He spoke now he needs to own his words. Let's be honest here Archie isn't playing because he isn't better than the players playing in front of him. Even his college coach had issues with him. Sure the kid has skills but so do hundreds of other basketball players that don't make it in the NBA because their head isn't in the right place. I would rather move him a package deal for someone special. His BBIQ is at a high school level and I haven't seen much change in that regard. My opinion is he is about 2-3 more years away from contributing. I could be wrong. But it's up to him to grow up and play the right way.

I'm agree with hornack right now. He should not be a rotational player. On top of everything he doesn't real have a set position because of his weaknesses. He can't be a shooting guard because his shooting is horrendous and can't be a point guard because he doesn't have the skill set of a PG. The only thing he is good at now is getting to the rim but basketball is more than just that. So the only thing the team can do is send him down to the d-league.

Archie needs to stop worrying about making highlight reel dunks and focus on fundamentals.

Not that it makes a different one way or the other, but is there any chance of him playing SF with his defensive skills? His wingspan is only 3/4" shorter than Warren, 1/4" shorter than Green, and has a 2" shorter standing reach than both, and is 6'5.25" tall, which is 2" shorter than Green, 3" shorter than Warren. He's the same height as PJ Tucker.

I was just curious if that would at all be an option, if he could be used in that role, it might better his chances as a backup to Warren when PJ's contract runs out, or if he's traded, because Green is likely gone, which would open up a chance for him. With Dragic x2, and Bullock, he's fighting an uphill battle getting any play at the 2. Plus, he's still young enough to attempt a position change.

Probably a stupid idea, especially considering his recent comments; he may find himself on the outs anyway in short order if he becomes a locker room distraction.

[bigfoot]

I'm in the mindframe athletes say things with an agenda. Archie is no different even if he is an immature kid. He spoke now he needs to own his words. Let's be honest here Archie isn't playing because he isn't better than the players playing in front of him. Even his college coach had issues with him. Sure the kid has skills but so do hundreds of other basketball players that don't make it in the NBA because their head isn't in the right place. I would rather move him a package deal for someone special. His BBIQ is at a high school level and I haven't seen much change in that regard. My opinion is he is about 2-3 more years away from contributing. I could be wrong. But it's up to him to grow up and play the right way.

I'm agree with hornack right now. He should not be a rotational player. On top of everything he doesn't real have a set position because of his weaknesses. He can't be a shooting guard because his shooting is horrendous and can't be a point guard because he doesn't have the skill set of a PG. The only thing he is good at now is getting to the rim but basketball is more than just that. So the only thing the team can do is send him down to the d-league.

Archie needs to stop worrying about making highlight reel dunks and focus on fundamentals.

Yep. Agree. Archie needs to earn it. Archie's offense is not gonna get him playing time. He simply is not as good as Dragic, IT, Bledsoe, or Green. If Archie wants to get some court time he should figure out how to play spectacular defense. Not sure if his BBIQ is going to allow him to become an outstanding defender. It's sad because his ability to draw fouls could be a big benefit. But with Bledose, Dragic, and IT getting a lions share of the ball handling duties that strength is diminished.

[thamadkant]

Archie Goodwin hasnt done anything, probably never will, and Miles Plumlee is the best 3rd string center in the league. who cares about either.

several of you have an obsession with archie, and i really dont know why.

Because he has potential.

I bet you were similar about Len last year.... actually let me search for that.

I totally agree with Scubetrolis here and I have been high on and defending Len all last season when most everyone was hating on him iirc.

Dleague means NOTHING. AT. ALL. Here is a list of the former dleague MVPs: http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbd ... s/mvp.html Ummm yeah. Goudelock had a few minutes with the tanking Lakers iirc.
****, Earl effing Barron is tearing it up there. And he's been in and out, more of the latter, of the league since he entered.

I have never seen a player looking less like an actual NBA player than Goodwin last season. Minus the Sacramento game. Yeah his attacks on the basket look flashy, but really he's like a chicken without a head. Running into 3 players without a plan and then just hoisting up a wild shot or turning it over somehow else. And 20 is not thaaaat young either anymore considering where his game is at. People comparing him and his potential to WADE (his 2009 - iirc - season was one of the single best seasons of all time) and DeRozan, seriously? U could have taken 20-year-old Wade's other meniscus out, bound one arm to his back, blindfolded him and he would still school Goodwin. You get the point

It was a nice gamble by McD, worth a late first but let's just remember his dunk on Valanciunas and ship him off for a 2nd.

Thats your opinion and entitled to it.

[thamadkant]

I'm in the mindframe athletes say things with an agenda. Archie is no different even if he is an immature kid. He spoke now he needs to own his words. Let's be honest here Archie isn't playing because he isn't better than the players playing in front of him. Even his college coach had issues with him. Sure the kid has skills but so do hundreds of other basketball players that don't make it in the NBA because their head isn't in the right place. I would rather move him a package deal for someone special. His BBIQ is at a high school level and I haven't seen much change in that regard. My opinion is he is about 2-3 more years away from contributing. I could be wrong. But it's up to him to grow up and play the right way.

I'm agree with hornack right now. He should not be a rotational player. On top of everything he doesn't real have a set position because of his weaknesses. He can't be a shooting guard because his shooting is horrendous and can't be a point guard because he doesn't have the skill set of a PG. The only thing he is good at now is getting to the rim but basketball is more than just that. So the only thing the team can do is send him down to the d-league.

Archie needs to stop worrying about making highlight reel dunks and focus on fundamentals.

The games he got minutes (Archie) he was trying to prove a point that he can score, judging his defense is very difficult during garbage time when the other 4 players on his team arent focus any more, lanes are open, intensity isnt as high etc.


Regarding Archie not being better than the players ahead of him... well considering Dragic is a 3rd team ALL NBA guard, Bledsoe nick named mini-Lebron and a 20/6 20 PER dynamo Thomas... can you blame him? And again Hornacek will play the better players... hence this falls on McD.


Would an 18-19 year old Kobe Bryant even lick a minute on the court if he was playing behind Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Ron Harper on a championship contending team?
I'm not saying Archie = Kobe, but my point is, the coach WILL ALWAYS play the better players, he wants WINS against his resume.

Now, development... thats a GENERAL MANAGER thing, and McD DRAFTED Archie, traded 1 spot for him because he had a feeling he would be gone. McD was right with Len and I believe given consistent minutes on the court Archie can become be a Lance Stephenson V2.0 that gets to the free throw line twice as much as Lance.



by the way, Wade was 22 years old when he entered the league...

from 20-22 .... thats PLENTY of time to develop an NBA-mind which Archie lacks at the moment... his SHOT will come down the line but its his I.Q that needs to improve.

Hornacek's comments about Goodwin's bakersjam performance seems to be like they are indeed bringing him slowly, teaching him speed of the game adaptation etc.

[asubennett]

Rosterbation Time - The Paul George proposal above triggered this -

Could you imagine a defensive team like this -

Bledsoe - PG
P. George - SG
Tucker - SF
Ibaka - PF
Len - C

If we flipped various assests inclusive of Dragic, IT, newbs and picks to obtain them. Yikes! That team could lock down anyone.

[RunDogGun]

I'm in the mindframe athletes say things with an agenda. Archie is no different even if he is an immature kid. He spoke now he needs to own his words. Let's be honest here Archie isn't playing because he isn't better than the players playing in front of him. Even his college coach had issues with him. Sure the kid has skills but so do hundreds of other basketball players that don't make it in the NBA because their head isn't in the right place. I would rather move him a package deal for someone special. His BBIQ is at a high school level and I haven't seen much change in that regard. My opinion is he is about 2-3 more years away from contributing. I could be wrong. But it's up to him to grow up and play the right way.

I'm agree with hornack right now. He should not be a rotational player. On top of everything he doesn't real have a set position because of his weaknesses. He can't be a shooting guard because his shooting is horrendous and can't be a point guard because he doesn't have the skill set of a PG. The only thing he is good at now is getting to the rim but basketball is more than just that. So the only thing the team can do is send him down to the d-league.

Archie needs to stop worrying about making highlight reel dunks and focus on fundamentals.

Yep. Agree. Archie needs to earn it. Archie's offense is not gonna get him playing time. He simply is not as good as Dragic, IT, Bledsoe, or Green. If Archie wants to get some court time he should figure out how to play spectacular defense. Not sure if his BBIQ is going to allow him to become an outstanding defender. It's sad because his ability to draw fouls could be a big benefit. But with Bledose, Dragic, and IT getting a lions share of the ball handling duties that strength is diminished.

I said something similar to this a month ago. If he could turn himself into lockdown defender, there would be a place for him on this roster, regardless of his poor shooting, and questionable driving decisions. After his latest comments, he might never get playing time other than the Jam.

[Revived]

Why isn't Tolliver getting the same hate that Goodwin got for Tolliver's comments?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1358136&start=60#p42412960

[bigfoot]

Why isn't Tolliver getting the same hate that Goodwin got for Tolliver's comments?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1358136&start=60#p42412960

Because he is gone. Tolliver was hot garbage when he was here. Didn't rebound or defend well for us. To top it off he was missing his threes at the beginning of the season when he got time. Again his problem. Step up and play or get the F out of the way for the next guy.

[NTB]

Actually Detroit fans liked Tolliver and he is playing well there with SVG.

[Saberestar]

Not smart coments by Goodwin. I think he will have a chance next year with Green gone...but if he doesn't progress enough Warren or Ennis can play that Gerald's minutes, so he has to shoot the ball better and understand the game way better than now.

[AtheJ415]

Archie Goodwin hasnt done anything, probably never will, and Miles Plumlee is the best 3rd string center in the league. who cares about either.

several of you have an obsession with archie, and i really dont know why.

Because he has potential.

I bet you were similar about Len last year.... actually let me search for that.

I totally agree with Scubetrolis here and I have been high on and defending Len all last season when most everyone was hating on him iirc.

Dleague means NOTHING. AT. ALL. Here is a list of the former dleague MVPs: http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbd ... s/mvp.html Ummm yeah. Goudelock had a few minutes with the tanking Lakers iirc.
****, Earl effing Barron is tearing it up there. And he's been in and out, more of the latter, of the league since he entered.

I have never seen a player looking less like an actual NBA player than Goodwin last season. Minus the Sacramento game. Yeah his attacks on the basket look flashy, but really he's like a chicken without a head. Running into 3 players without a plan and then just hoisting up a wild shot or turning it over somehow else. And 20 is not thaaaat young either anymore considering where his game is at. People comparing him and his potential to WADE (his 2009 - iirc - season was one of the single best seasons of all time) and DeRozan, seriously? U could have taken 20-year-old Wade's other meniscus out, bound one arm to his back, blindfolded him and he would still school Goodwin. You get the point

It was a nice gamble by McD, worth a late first but let's just remember his dunk on Valanciunas and ship him off for a 2nd.

Lol. So we should give up on a guy the GM drafted as a long-term project for a 2nd just 1.5 years in, particularly when he's just 20? Some fans man.