Is there a scenario emerging where the Bulls lose Butler?

[ATRAIN53]

Remember like 6 years ago when Larry Hughes was making like 13 million a year?

http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/3/12/4 ... rry-hughes

For the Cavs, Hughes gives them a great scorer and defender to put at the two alongside LeBron James. Hughes is a fantastic ball handler and rebounder for a two-guard making him -- like LeBron -- a very versatile piece in the puzzle. However, he's not a perfect fit in Cleveland. Hughes is not a good 3-point shooter (a big need for the Cavs), has a history of injuries and has been inconsistent throughout his career.

I don't think Jimmy is the next Larry Hughes, but 1 year ago today if you told me Jimmy was in line for a max deal I'd have called that crazy. The Cavs overpaid for Hughes back then, they failed to win a title and Larrys' production dropped but he kept getting paid. The Bulls traded for him to rectify overpaying for Ben Wallace themselves.

He's a really good young player but guys making MAX deals are supposed to be superstars that fans from other cities come out to see, have high jersey sales and should be capable of closing out a game themself.

It's hard to listen to these salaries being tossed around for Jimmy when you look back at this city and think of how guys like Jordan & Pippen had to fight to earn their deals. We showed Pippen the door instead of 11 million after he helped us win 6 titles.

Does Utah and their 14-27 record think the MAX deal for Heyward was a smart move still?

[AirP.]

It is a random thought thread. Jimmy is not so bad as he is right now and may be he was not as good as he showed in November.

He will improve and everyone goes through slumps. The contract might not be a max from any team if his game goes bad. But, it is like asking if Love will leave Cleveland if they don't go to the finals.

He was basically putting up the same numbers in December.
21.5 pts, 6.5 reb, 3.2 ast, 47% FG%, 35% 3PT%.

The difference has been his usage rate...
Nov - 22.7
Dec - 21.9
Jan - 20.1

and his midrange jumper has been off for a few games

Also remember, this all seemed to start up around the time he took off for bereavement leave.

[AirP.]

Double post

[Stratmaster]

So was the overreaction to the 25 great games, or is it overreacting because we expect he will return to what he has been all his career (and that ain't bad, is it?).

Maybe some posters were right when saying he is perfectly suited to be the best 6th man in the league, because he doesn't fit as a starting SG or as a starting SF? Maybe? I mean I changed my mind to some extent in that he showed the capability this season to do some things offensively we had never seen him do before. But maybe i was wrong to think I was wrong? Or, put differently, "I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken". I'm so confused.

[Stratmaster]

I still think the Bulls plan for 2 years from now is to have a starting lineup of Rose, Butler, McD, Mirotic and (if he can still run) Noah. Personally, we will have to see a hell of a lot more from McD...and from Mirotic as well...for that to be something that I see as very appealing. However, that should be a reasonably priced (well, as reasonable as you can get with the current DRose making 20 mil) starting lineup at that point in time, depending on the contract Jimmy gets. it should also, by that time, be a good mix of veterans and youth.

[musiqsoulchild]

I still think the Bulls plan for 2 years from now is to have a starting lineup of Rose, Butler, McD, Mirotic and (if he can still run) Noah. Personally, we will have to see a hell of a lot more from McD...and from Mirotic as well...for that to be something that I see as very appealing. However, that should be a reasonably priced (well, as reasonable as you can get with the current DRose making 20 mil) starting lineup at that point in time, depending on the contract Jimmy gets. it should also, by that time, be a good mix of veterans and youth.

Agree.

Its easier to build a FORMIDABLE bench when 2 of your starters are making 8 Million together. Especially, in a cap inflated environment as is supposed to occur 2 years from now.

[AirP.]

I don't think Jimmy is the next Larry Hughes, but 1 year ago today if you told me Jimmy was in line for a max deal I'd have called that crazy. The Cavs overpaid for Hughes back then, they failed to win a title and Larrys' production dropped but he kept getting paid. The Bulls traded for him to rectify overpaying for Ben Wallace themselves.

He's a really good young player but guys making MAX deals are supposed to be superstars that fans from other cities come out to see, have high jersey sales and should be capable of closing out a game themself.

Well before the season Sham tweeted this....

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/status/484183185690198017[/tweet]

So there were people out there already projecting him as a max player before seeing him perform better on the offensive side.

[youOK]

Even if he regresses, I think the level of play he showed he was capable of is going to warrant a max from someone. Good wings are impossible to find. There are probably 4 wings who are for sure better than Jimmy Butler.

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Paul George
4. Carmelo Anthony

They are all on some sort of supermax contract. Rudy Gay is also at this level in pay but I would take Butler over gay 100/100 times.

After that you have the next tier which includes Chandler Parsons, Klay Thompson, Gordon Hayward, Kawhi Leonard etc. I think Butler is clearly in this tier (if not at the top of it) from a player value perspective.

Hayward/Thompson/Parsons all received what basically amounted to a max contract. I expect Leonard and Butler to receive the same. Butler is way more valuable than a Batum or an Iggy who currently make ~12.

Bulls have $62 million committed next year between Rose,Noah,Gasol,Gibson,Mirotic,Hinrich,McDermott,Snell. The salary cap this year was $63 million. Assuming it increases 10%,(Last year was an all time high at 7.5%), we would expect the salary cap to be around ~$69 million.

Even if the Bulls don't resign butler they would only have $7 million in room to actually sign a player in free agency. This means the bulls would probably end up with a player in between Jodie Meeks(signed last year at an average value of 6.3)/Trevor Ariza(signed last year at an average value of 8). To me even if it means overpaying Butler by ~2 million I would much rather have Butler than those two if I'm trying to win a championship in the next couple of years.

It's only going to matter if the Bulls want max cap space in the future to attract a big free agent. However they risk massively downgrading their current roster if they go that way.

[Krazy!!!]

A month ago....Rose was history and Butler was the face of the franchise. ...and now this thread.

[League Circles]

Remember like 6 years ago when Larry Hughes was making like 13 million a year?

http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/3/12/4 ... rry-hughes

For the Cavs, Hughes gives them a great scorer and defender to put at the two alongside LeBron James. Hughes is a fantastic ball handler and rebounder for a two-guard making him -- like LeBron -- a very versatile piece in the puzzle. However, he's not a perfect fit in Cleveland. Hughes is not a good 3-point shooter (a big need for the Cavs), has a history of injuries and has been inconsistent throughout his career.

I don't think Jimmy is the next Larry Hughes, but 1 year ago today if you told me Jimmy was in line for a max deal I'd have called that crazy. The Cavs overpaid for Hughes back then, they failed to win a title and Larrys' production dropped but he kept getting paid. The Bulls traded for him to rectify overpaying for Ben Wallace themselves.

He's a really good young player but guys making MAX deals are supposed to be superstars that fans from other cities come out to see, have high jersey sales and should be capable of closing out a game themself.

It's hard to listen to these salaries being tossed around for Jimmy when you look back at this city and think of how guys like Jordan & Pippen had to fight to earn their deals. We showed Pippen the door instead of 11 million after he helped us win 6 titles.

Does Utah and their 14-27 record think the MAX deal for Heyward was a smart move still?

Pippen left because he wanted to. Obviously.

[kodo]

We’re over cap even if Butler makes nothing, so I don’t see any scenario where we don’t sign Butler even if we don’t think he’s worth the money. Butler walking is just a loss, we can’t sign anyone to replace him other than exception level guys.

If for some reason the FO absolutely will not pay that kind of money, he’s going to be traded before he walks for nothing. His current contract makes him very easy to fit into any trade scenario.

But if the FO doesn’t want to spend that kind of money, why would they have offered him $12M before the season. The difference between the $12M they offered and $14.7M for a max isn’t significant short term. Long term, the increased NBA revenue will increase the cap & lux tax lines.

If another team thinks he’s worth max, we should also think he’s worth max because sans Butler, we have one of the worst perimeters of any non-tanking team in the league.

[blastman]

Jimmy also rolled his ankle the first trip down the floor against the Hawks. He played on it, but I know that thing had to swell up some. I'm sure he's going to feel it tonight against the Spurs. I think after the All Star break Jimmy will be back on track.

[dmk08]

A month ago....Rose was history and Butler was the face of the franchise. ...and now this thread.

I wonder if this was a source of contention in the locker room. Rose probably didn't like it no matter what he says.

[Stratmaster]

A month ago....Rose was history and Butler was the face of the franchise. ...and now this thread.

I wonder if this was a source of contention in the locker room. Rose probably didn't like it no matter what he says.

I don't think the locker room worries too much about who RealGM thinks the face of the franchise is. I never read any comment from Jimmy or anyone else on the team insinuating they though Jimmy is the new franchise player or the new team leader. That was all kind of "fan stuff".

[dmk08]

A month ago....Rose was history and Butler was the face of the franchise. ...and now this thread.

I wonder if this was a source of contention in the locker room. Rose probably didn't like it no matter what he says.

I don't think the locker room worries too much about who RealGM thinks the face of the franchise is. I never read any comment from Jimmy or anyone else on the team insinuating they though Jimmy is the new franchise player or the new team leader. That was all kind of "fan stuff".

Yeah but it wasn't just realGM. It was the media and reporters every day. I'm sure Rose heard about it.

[Stratmaster]

I wonder if this was a source of contention in the locker room. Rose probably didn't like it no matter what he says.

I don't think the locker room worries too much about who RealGM thinks the face of the franchise is. I never read any comment from Jimmy or anyone else on the team insinuating they though Jimmy is the new franchise player or the new team leader. That was all kind of "fan stuff".

Yeah but it wasn't just realGM. It was the media and reporters every day. I'm sure Rose heard about it.

I never heard anyone outside of a message board poster say that Butler was the new franchise player or that he was the new face of the Bulls. I must have missed all those quotes.

[ingvald]

I don't think Jimmy is the next Larry Hughes, but 1 year ago today if you told me Jimmy was in line for a max deal I'd have called that crazy. The Cavs overpaid for Hughes back then, they failed to win a title and Larrys' production dropped but he kept getting paid. The Bulls traded for him to rectify overpaying for Ben Wallace themselves.

He's a really good young player but guys making MAX deals are supposed to be superstars that fans from other cities come out to see, have high jersey sales and should be capable of closing out a game themself.

Well before the season Sham tweeted this....

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/status/484183185690198017[/tweet]

So there were people out there already projecting him as a max player before seeing him perform better on the offensive side.

All it takes is one other team to offer a max deal and it forces the Bulls to match or let him walk. So while you or I may not think Butler is a "max player", the market is going to dictate that he is one. If anyone doesn't think the Knicks (for example) wouldn't gladly sign Jimmy as a part of their offseason reboot, they need a reality check to the FA market. Would it be an overpay? Probably. But at the same time, crazy money gets thrown at free agents in any sport and basketball is no different.

[drbg43]

If Gordon Hayward got a max contract Jimmy is getting a max contract. Discussion over.