RE: Rule Change to Fix Hack-a-Shaq

[DocRI]

Hello all.

Yes, I'm biased as a Pistons fan because of Dre, but long before Drummond ever entered the NBA I've H-A-T-E-D the "Hack-a-Shaq" strategy. Hell, even coaches who deploy it have sometimes condemned doing so and called it a necessary strategic evil. It completely destroys the flow of a game and makes basketball far less enjoyable to watch, and clearly, the current rules don't do enough to discourage it. As I see it, they tried to fix the problem by changing the rules for the last two minutes, but I believe continuing to follow that paradigm will only change when teams start and stop "Hack-a-Shaq-ing." As such, there needs to be a game-wide rule change, and I think I've come up with a decent solution —

Right now, there's no difference between the 5th team foul in a quarter and the 15th; once a team is in the bonus, they get two shots and the opposing team then gets the ball. Why not follow the college template of a "double bonus?" Why not simply make it two shots AND THE BALL upon the 8th team foul in a quarter? Sure, a coach could then choose to "Hack-a-Shaq" three times, but he'd be putting his team at a serious disadvantage for the rest of the game because every subsequent foul would result in two shots and the ball for the other team. Heck, I think teams like us (with Dre) would BEG their opponents to go ahead and "Hack" away so we'd have a massive competitive advantage down the stretch! This is a solid idea even outside of the "Hack-a-Shaq" realm, as it encourages teams to play better defense and not foul throughout the entire game 'cuz they'll get hammered at the end of quarters if they've fouled too much.

Before anyone responds that "Dre / Howard / Shaq just need(ed) to learn to shoot FTs better," yeah, well, sure. But there's a rules loophole here that teams are taking advantage of that's lessening the watchability and enjoyment of basketball, and I think that's the bigger wrong that needs righting. If you appreciate and enjoy watching a team deploy the "Hack-a-Shaq," more power to you, but I'd rather actually watch a game than a free throw shooting contest.

Anyhow, what do you guys think? Am I on to something? Thanks in advance, I appreciate your feedback!

[mercury]

The National Basketball Association
645 Fifth Ave.
New York, NY 10022
Attn: Fan Relations

[Lionlifer]

If this gets implemented, it would quickly become the Harden Rule in my mind. Harden always plays to draw a whistle when he goes into the lane, give him shots AND the ball, I might cry.

No matter how hard we try to fix a certain aspect of the sport, there will always be someone else ready to exploit it. I think hack a shaq is the lesser of two evils.

[MrBigShot]

I'd be concerned about the issues this rule might cause for games where the hack a shaq does not occur but a lot of fouls occur. As Lionlifer mentioned, guys like James Harden or CP3 would just barrel into the lane, snap their heads back and put pressure on the refs to call fouls. Two FTs and the ball is just too big of an advantage...

The premise of the idea isn't bad though. I would suggest that instead of 2 FTs and the ball, that an intentional foul on someone who does not have the ball ALWAYS results in 1 FT plus the ball. This would completely get rid of the Hack-a-Shaq, but at the same time it would not take the "taking advantage of an opponent's weaknesses" out of equation because people can still foul Drummond whenever he attempts a shot at the basket to try and prevent an easy 2 points.

[Scottgaf]

Any intentional defensive foul away from the ball should be treated like a technical foul.

If the team has yet to reach the bonus, the reward should be one shot and then get the ball back. If in the bonus, the reward should be 2 shots and the ball back.

This rule is similar to the college rule I think. It would be simple to enforce, and effective against hack a shack strategy.

[Blkbrd671]

I think intentionally fouling away from the ball should be completely removed. Its a loop hole in the rules. It has nothing to do with a players ability to make FT's. It gives the coach too much influence over a game. How does it make sense to have a rule that forces one or more star bigman to sit????

Dre's going to learn to have to hit FT's regardless as teams are looking to foul him everytime he touches the ball in the paint. 60% chance he's not going to make'em is good ods.

[Manocad]

The only reason Hack-a-Whomever happens is because guys can't hit their free throws. No one is "exploiting" anything. The problem isn't the rules. The problem is players neglecting to develop a skill that plays a significant role in many, many games and the other team taking advantage of that lack of skill. What's next? Changing the rules to force a defender to always close out on an open guy who can't hit a jumper rather than staying closer to the rim to get the rebound off his likely brick?

[ComboGuardCity]

Should we take away the 3 point line when josh smith is in the game?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Laimbeer]

I think intentionally fouling away from the ball should be completely removed. Its a loop hole in the rules. It has nothing to do with a players ability to make FT's. It gives the coach too much influence over a game. How does it make sense to have a rule that forces one or more star bigman to sit????

Yep, any foul away from the ball should be a free throw plus procession the entire game. Just grabbing a guy without the ball is a mockery.

[Blkbrd671]

The only reason Hack-a-Whomever happens is because guys can't hit their free throws. No one is "exploiting" anything. The problem isn't the rules. The problem is players neglecting to develop a skill that plays a significant role in many, many games and the other team taking advantage of that lack of skill. What's next? Changing the rules to force a defender to always close out on an open guy who can't hit a jumper rather than staying closer to the rim to get the rebound off his likely brick?

that is a horrible analogy. What is the purpose of lettin another team foul a player intentionally away from the ball !? When they let decided not to penalize intentionally fouling a player who is away from the ball, what was their reason? Why has the nba singled out poor ft shooters!? should we move back the ft and 3 point line so that players who are average at the 3 are penalized for not concentrating on that skill!? Is there any other rule in the NBA in which a coach can utilize and impact the game besides that!?

[Navas]

One thing if you're in a close game and there's two minutes on the 4th. It's another when you do it in the third. Looking at you, David Blatt.

[Manocad]

The only reason Hack-a-Whomever happens is because guys can't hit their free throws. No one is "exploiting" anything. The problem isn't the rules. The problem is players neglecting to develop a skill that plays a significant role in many, many games and the other team taking advantage of that lack of skill. What's next? Changing the rules to force a defender to always close out on an open guy who can't hit a jumper rather than staying closer to the rim to get the rebound off his likely brick?

that is a horrible analogy. What is the purpose of lettin another team foul a player intentionally away from the ball !? When they let decided not to penalize intentionally fouling a player who is away from the ball, what was their reason? Why has the nba singled out poor ft shooters!? should we move back the ft and 3 point line so that players who are average at the 3 are penalized for not concentrating on that skill!? Is there any other rule in the NBA in which a coach can utilize and impact the game besides that!?

BS. No one is "letting" anyone do anything; it's not like it used to be against the rules to intentionally foul a poor FT shooter and the rules got changed to "let" teams take advantage of poor FT shooters. The rules are what they are and teams are playing within the rules that have never changed other than actually to the advantage of the team getting intentionally fouled. Simply put, you're asking that the rules be changed to minimize the effect of the lack of a particular skill. If every player could hit FT's at a decent clip this conversation wouldn't be taking place, and it never did years ago. The worst FT shooters in the league could not only still hit at 50+%, but they weren't out on the floor in a tight game where FT's could decide who wins or loses. There was no such thing as Hack-a-Whomever until Shaq came along. Wilt is the only player in the top 10 worst FT shooters of all time who didn't play in the last 30 years, and his offensive and defensive impact while in the game more than made up for poor FT shooting. It's a skill that a number of players don't put a lot of time into; that's not the league's fault.

[Blkbrd671]

BS. No one is "letting" anyone do anything; it's not like it used to be against the rules to intentionally foul a poor FT shooter and the rules got changed to "let" teams take advantage of poor FT shooters.

By seeing how a rule is being utilized by a coach to single out and penalize specific players and refusing to do anything about it. They are "letting" coaches impact game by no action

The rules are what they are and teams are playing within the rules that have never changed other than actually to the advantage of the team getting intentionally fouled. Simply put, you're asking that the rules be changed to minimize the effect of the lack of a particular skill.

No i am asking the rule to be changed because there is no purpose for it. Again when the rule to allow players to intentially foul another player and not penalized was created, what was the purpose? To penalize poor FT shooters!? why did we select that?

If every player could hit FT's at a decent clip this conversation wouldn't be taking place, and it never did years ago.

Simply not true, this has been discussed multiple times since the hack a shaq days.

The worst FT shooters in the league could not only still hit at 50+%, but they weren't out on the floor in a tight game where FT's could decide who wins or loses. There was no such thing as Hack-a-Whomever until Shaq came along. Wilt is the only player in the top 10 worst FT shooters of all time who didn't play in the last 30 years, and his offensive and defensive impact while in the game more than made up for poor FT shooting. It's a skill that a number of players don't put a lot of time into; that's not the league's fault.

As you said, intentionally hacking didn't come a long until shaq, my question as i continue to repeat, is why did the NBA see this and allow it to continue. Seems the answer is, to penalize a poor FT shooter, and again why are they singling out 1 particular skill set. At that should they allow Dre to offensive goal tend so players who lack the ability to properly rebound are penalized!?

Quite frankly there is no reason for allowing a player to be foul' away from the play. It has no purpose other than to single particluar players and penalize them.

[Manocad]

Seems the answer is that the NBA doesn't want to change the rules to hide a player's lack of skill. The league isn't penalizing jack s**t; the rules have always been there. The players are the ones penalizing their team by not spending time developing decent free throw skills. It's the players' lack of skill that started Hack-a-Whomever, not anything the league did or didn't do.

While they're at it, they should make the rim diameter larger. Right now the NBA is penalizing jump shooters like KCP who shoot jumpers at a percentage below the league average, right?

[AussieAsh13]

Should we take away the 3 point line when josh smith is in the game?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

But then how would he know where to brick his long 2's from??


In all seriousness tho, I'm inclined to agree with Manocad here.
As much as I don't like when the game descends into Hack-a- strategy, the opposition team is risking a higher number of fouls on individual players, and risking them fouling out. And as we saw against the 76ers last week (I think), they fouled Drummond at 1.59 and we sent Jennings in who hit both. There is still a risk.

It's an interesting idea, however I think it would place too much of an advantage on the team being fouled. I know you are calling it an exploit, but really IMO it is a smart tactic. As an example when we had our 'big 3' teams would just pack the paint and force long jumpers (particularly from Smith), now teams know that is his weakness and they are forcing them into it.
In the game of basketball you want to take your opponents strength away from them, and if they still beat you then well done to them.


If we remove all that is going to happen is that players are going to wait till Drummond touches the ball and reach in on him and foul him that way. They will just find another way to exploit a similar rule.

[Blkbrd671]

Seems the answer is that the NBA doesn't want to change the rules to hide a player's lack of skill. The league isn't penalizing jack s**t; the rules have always been there. The players are the ones penalizing their team by not spending time developing decent free throw skills. It's the players' lack of skill that started Hack-a-Whomever, not anything the league did or didn't do.

While they're at it, they should make the rim diameter larger. Right now the NBA is penalizing jump shooters like KCP who shoot jumpers at a percentage below the league average, right?

let me break this down for you

1.) Rule has always been there
2.) no problem with intentionally fouling
3.) Shaq comes along
4.) intentionally fouling becomes a way for coaches to penalize other teams for having poor FT shooters
5.) NBA reviews the new "hack a Shaq" practice that is on going, decides to allow it depsite the fact that it singles out specific players
6.) the league didn't do anything

Your arguing exactly my point, your proposing rules that will help a player and its sounds dumbs, yet the nba is allowing for specific practices to happen to help other teams have a advantage by targeting specific players. And again my question is why are they targeting poor Ft shooters

[Blkbrd671]

Should we take away the 3 point line when josh smith is in the game?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

But then how would he know where to brick his long 2's from??


In all seriousness tho, I'm inclined to agree with Manocad here.
As much as I don't like when the game descends into Hack-a- strategy, the opposition team is risking a higher number of fouls on individual players, and risking them fouling out. And as we saw against the 76ers last week (I think), they fouled Drummond at 1.59 and we sent Jennings in who hit both. There is still a risk.

It's an interesting idea, however I think it would place too much of an advantage on the team being fouled. I know you are calling it an exploit, but really IMO it is a smart tactic. As an example when we had our 'big 3' teams would just pack the paint and force long jumpers (particularly from Smith), now teams know that is his weakness and they are forcing them into it.
In the game of basketball you want to take your opponents strength away from them, and if they still beat you then well done to them.


If we remove all that is going to happen is that players are going to wait till Drummond touches the ball and reach in on him and foul him that way. They will just find another way to exploit a similar rule.

oh damn straight its a smart tactic however what is the purpose of allowing this to happen!? to penalize poor FT shooters?

[Manocad]

Seems the answer is that the NBA doesn't want to change the rules to hide a player's lack of skill. The league isn't penalizing jack s**t; the rules have always been there. The players are the ones penalizing their team by not spending time developing decent free throw skills. It's the players' lack of skill that started Hack-a-Whomever, not anything the league did or didn't do.

While they're at it, they should make the rim diameter larger. Right now the NBA is penalizing jump shooters like KCP who shoot jumpers at a percentage below the league average, right?

let me break this down for you

1.) Rule has always been there
2.) no problem with intentionally fouling
3.) Shaq comes along
4.) intentionally fouling becomes a way for coaches to penalize other teams for having poor FT shooters
5.) NBA reviews the new "hack a Shaq" practice that is on going, decides to allow it depsite the fact that it singles out specific players
6.) the league didn't do anything

Your arguing exactly my point, your proposing rules that will help a player and its sounds dumbs, yet the nba is allowing for specific practices to happen to help other teams have a advantage by targeting specific players. And again my question is why are they targeting poor Ft shooters

I'm not arguing your point at all. Apparently your sarcasm meter is broken. I'm not proposing any rule changes whatsoever.

Let me break this down for you:
1.) Hack-a-Whomever didn't start until certain players decided to not develop basic skills that almost all the players before them developed. Until that happened it wasn't a useful strategy.
2.) The league doesn't believe players choosing not to develop a basic skill that has always been part of the game should lead to rule changes that only perpetuate the lack of development of a basic skill.

The End.

[Blkbrd671]

I'm not arguing your point at all. Apparently your sarcasm meter is broken. I'm not proposing any rule changes whatsoever.

Let me break this down for you:
1.) Hack-a-Whomever didn't start until certain players decided to not develop basic skills that almost all the players before them developed. Until that happened it wasn't a useful strategy.
2.) The league doesn't believe players choosing not to develop a basic skill that has always been part of the game should lead to rule changes that only perpetuate the lack of development of a basic skill.

The End.

You continually ignore the entire issue. The issue isn't the lack of development, the issue is the ability to penalize a player for lack of development. Why should there be a rule in place that penalizes specific players!?

Its funny how you think that Dre and Shaq and dwights type inability is due to the fact that they do not try to develop the skillset. Do you really think they don't practice and try to get better!? or coaches see that weakness!?

ever think that maybe some players can't shoot jump shots and 3 point shots.*GASP!

The league doesn't think there's a problem with singling out some players to a disadvantage and allowing coaches to impact the game as a problem, despite teh fact that it is. It serves no purpose in the game. Its one thing to hack a player to stop the clock or prevent him from gettin a rebound or steal, its another to hack him just so you don't have to defend hm

[MrBigShot]

I'm inclined to agree with blkbrd and DocRI here. At it's core NBA basketball is entertainment. Watching a team jack up a bunch of free throws is extremely boring and doesn't not resemble flowing, high quality basketball in the least bit. Nobody wants to watch Dwight Howard shoot 39 Fts in a game.

Why was zone defense illegal prior to 01-02? Shouldn't players who have difficulty being defended by a zone simply improve their games or deal with it? After all, being able to make reads and deal with different defensive looks/double teams is a skill. So why have a rule that effectively reduces a player's weakness in this area? Why was hand checking made illegal? Why adhere to perimeter players who don't have the strength or skill to get consistently get past defenders who can hand check them?

Why was the 3 seconds in the paint rule implemented? If players aren't able to finish inside against a big who can simply stay in the paint, why shouldn't they improve their strength/finishing ability rather than imposing a limit on the time that a big can stay in the lane without actively guarding somebody?

I don't believe for a second that Drummond's FT shooting is due to lack of practice. I'm sure he works on them. Every practice. But Shaq and Dwight worked on their FTs, and I bet so did Rondo as well, and DeAndre Jordan. Some guys just don't improve significantly despite the resources they have. Hack-a-shaq is bad for the NBA, it's bad for basketball in general.