Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

[bigfoot]

Trade Green and a second round pick for Jared Dudley. Our second unit gets better defensively and has a high IQ leader to help them out.

We would never have to include a 2nd rounder for Dudley. Like it or not, Green, who got some 6th man of the year recognition as a candidate last year, is worth way more than Dudley.

Green and Dudley are basically the same age. Now take a look at this link.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

Dudley has better shooting percentages for 2pt and 3pt, way, way fewer turnovers, more assists, more rebounds, more steals, better offensive and defensive rating. In the past, Dudley has received votes for both sixth man of the year and NBA all-defensive team. Finally, Jared's BBIQ is Einsteinian compared to Green. Green needs to go, period. He's hurting our team.

[letsgosuns]

Okay here is my idea of a trade that I believe:
A) makes the Suns better
B) opens up time to develop Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis
C) works under the realgm trade checker

The Suns trade G. Dragic, Thomas, Green, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic for Joe Johnson. I would have liked to keep Green but his salary is needed for financial reasons. The new Suns lineup would be:

Bledsoe/Ennis/Goodwin
Johnson/Goodwin/Bullock
Tucker/Warren/Bullock
Markieff/Marcus/Tucker
Len/Wright/Markieff

Goodbye dual and three point guard lineup (which I think is the dumbest idea possible). No longer are the Suns undersized at the wings getting destroyed by the opponent by being so undersized. No real center other than Len but it is not like Plumlee is so great.

Would the Suns bench scoring take a major hit? Probably, until the young guys develop and then most likely become awesome. Would the Suns gain a veteran presence that has taken big shots his entire career and would drastically help down the stretch of games and provide leadership? Absolutely.

I think Dragic is going to leave the Suns without a doubt. Plus no way in hell would I give him the contract Bledsoe got and he is probably going to get offered more than that from someone. Secondly I would love to get rid of Thomas' me first, ball hogging, ball stopping attitude. I still love watching Green when he is on but like I said before his salary needs to be included to make the deal work. Z. Dragic and Plumlee? So long.

Why do I make this trade if I am the Suns? The Suns are desperate to make the playoffs and everyone knows they are not going to. Replacing low IQ players with Joe Johnson makes a dramatic improvement. Just imagine if the Suns had Johnson on the team to take all those shots at the end of games like against the Clippers, Thunder, or Grizzlies. Those are games that Jonson can win for you. He has done it his entire career. Johnson can also provide leadership to all the young players on the team. I think having him instead of the other guys on this team gives the Suns a much better chance to make the playoffs. He is also only signed for one year after this.

Why does Brooklyn make the trade? Pure salary dump. The only long term salary they keep after this trade is Thomas' decreasing salary. Everyone else they can let walk at the end of the season if they want to. Saves them about 18 million dollars off of next years cap. It is well known they want to trade everyone on their team and this is a good trade for them to save a lot of money on. Then if they want they can actually try to re-sign any of those guys as well.

Seems to make sense to me. Gives the Suns a better chance to make the playoffs while at the same time opening up lots of playing time for the young guys. Why not? Bledsoe, Johnson, and Tucker would be great defensively too. Suns have to make a change if they want to be a playoff team and this could be it.

[AtheJ415]

Trade Green and a second round pick for Jared Dudley. Our second unit gets better defensively and has a high IQ leader to help them out.

We would never have to include a 2nd rounder for Dudley. Like it or not, Green, who got some 6th man of the year recognition as a candidate last year, is worth way more than Dudley.

Green and Dudley are basically the same age. Now take a look at this link.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

Dudley has better shooting percentages for 2pt and 3pt, way, way fewer turnovers, more assists, more rebounds, more steals, better offensive and defensive rating. In the past, Dudley has received votes for both sixth man of the year and NBA all-defensive team. Finally, Jared's BBIQ is Einsteinian compared to Green. Green needs to go, period. He's hurting our team.

Yes, advanced stats favor Dudley, but it's not really fare to look at those when the volumes are so different. Dudley was traded WITH A FIRST to Milwaukee for nothing. He was dumped. He has then proceeded to average a whopping 7 ppg, 3 rpg, and 1 apg. That's not awful for a bench player, but that's not lighting the world on fire. Green's role is to come in and score. Dudley's isn't. People who take fewer shots are frequently more efficient (see Deandre Jordan minus the FT numbers relative to a Blake Griffin). That's expected. Dudley used to be an awesome bench player, but his production is nowhere near where it was when he was getting votes for any awards and hasn't been for a number of years. If we were trading for the 25-27 year old version of Dudley, then yeah I'd agree, but we aren't. And Green got votes just last year and probably will get a couple this year despite what our fans think. And Green isn't a net negative. Not even close. He takes some stupid shots, but his overall contribution to this team isn't the negative our fans think.

Dudley makes more money, is older, and is on the hook for longer, while also carrying a more easily-replaced skillset than Green provides. I'm not opposed to trading Green, but I'm very opposed to throwing in picks to get rid of an expiring who is literally a few months from expiring in exchange for a 7 and 3 bench SF. Period. I'd rather just bench Green and play Warren or Morris or Goodwin more than throw away future picks and take on more salary for a guy who would at best be an average backup.

[nevetsov]

^ was thinking about JJ on this team yesterday actually. His ridiculous contract expires at the end of next year I believe so it's not all that unpalatable. His size, strength, shooting and playmaking seem like a natural fit beside Bledsoe... But does he have anything left in the tank?

I'd also like to retain an experienced PG in the deal though, need a stopgap until Ennis is ready to assume the full time backup minutes.

[letsgosuns]

^ was thinking about JJ on this team yesterday actually. His ridiculous contract expires at the end of next year I believe so it's not all that unpalatable. His size, strength, shooting and playmaking seem like a natural fit beside Bledsoe... But does he have anything left in the tank?

I'd also like to retain an experienced PG in the deal though, need a stopgap until Ennis is ready to assume the full time backup minutes.

Yeah I also think the Suns would need an extra big man and they could maybe sign Jermaine O'neal as a backup just so they are not so thin up front.

[AtheJ415]

Okay here is my idea of a trade that I believe:
A) makes the Suns better
B) opens up time to develop Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis
C) works under the realgm trade checker

The Suns trade G. Dragic, Thomas, Green, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic for Joe Johnson. I would have liked to keep Green but his salary is needed for financial reasons. The new Suns lineup would be:

Bledsoe/Ennis/Goodwin
Johnson/Goodwin/Bullock
Tucker/Warren/Bullock
Markieff/Marcus/Tucker
Len/Wright/Markieff

Goodbye dual and three point guard lineup (which I think is the dumbest idea possible). No longer are the Suns undersized at the wings getting destroyed by the opponent by being so undersized. No real center other than Len but it is not like Plumlee is so great.

Would the Suns bench scoring take a major hit? Probably, until the young guys develop and then most likely become awesome. Would the Suns gain a veteran presence that has taken big shots his entire career and would drastically help down the stretch of games and provide leadership? Absolutely.

I think Dragic is going to leave the Suns without a doubt. Plus no way in hell would I give him the contract Bledsoe got and he is probably going to get offered more than that from someone. Secondly I would love to get rid of Thomas' me first, ball hogging, ball stopping attitude. I still love watching Green when he is on but like I said before his salary needs to be included to make the deal work. Z. Dragic and Plumlee? So long.

Why do I make this trade if I am the Suns? The Suns are desperate to make the playoffs and everyone knows they are not going to. Replacing low IQ players with Joe Johnson makes a dramatic improvement. Just imagine if the Suns had Johnson on the team to take all those shots at the end of games like against the Clippers, Thunder, or Grizzlies. Those are games that Jonson can win for you. He has done it his entire career. Johnson can also provide leadership to all the young players on the team. I think having him instead of the other guys on this team gives the Suns a much better chance to make the playoffs. He is also only signed for one year after this.

Why does Brooklyn make the trade? Pure salary dump. The only long term salary they keep after this trade is Thomas' decreasing salary. Everyone else they can let walk at the end of the season if they want to. Saves them about 18 million dollars off of next years cap. It is well known they want to trade everyone on their team and this is a good trade for them to save a lot of money on. Then if they want they can actually try to re-sign any of those guys as well.

Seems to make sense to me. Gives the Suns a better chance to make the playoffs while at the same time opening up lots of playing time for the young guys. Why not? Bledsoe, Johnson, and Tucker would be great defensively too. Suns have to make a change if they want to be a playoff team and this could be it.

No. The dumbest idea possible is including Dragic in any trade for Joe Johnson, a player the Nets have been trying to give away, is 5 years older than Dragic with a ton more mileage, and is worse than him presently and in the future due to that age/mileage.

[letsgosuns]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

[Flying Colors]

Is Joe Johnson really a name being thrown around here?

[oldjeezy]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

1.5 years of joe johnson is no great haul. just because the depth chart is more straight forward to fill out doesn't mean the team would be better

[AtheJ415]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

If you think Johnson is still a better player then you're wrong. Even if he was, dumping IT, Green (another expiring, so even if you think he's a negative simply don't re-sign him), Plumlee is moronic.

IT isn't a fan favorite here, but his advanced stats are awesome and he has value. He makes $6 million going forward, 1/11 of the CURRENT cap, which is expected to go up and make him even more valuable. Negatives aside, he's a 6th man of the year finalist for the next 5 years or so, and his contract is miniscule.

Plumlee is a quality, proven backup big in a league without many good big men (resulting in guys like Mozgov getting 2 1sts in exchange) on a rookie deal for a few more years. He also has value even if his PT on this particular team is declining.

You pay what the market dictates. Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, and Brooke Lopez have all been shopped all season long, with the 1st 2 being given away with no takers. The Nets want to rid themselves of bad contracts. With Lopez they want some type of return, but with the others they are happy to dump them. You don't trade an All-NBA player from last year in his prime, even if you think he's leaving, for a guy the other team is trying to give away and who is also expiring.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Phoenix could get a first for IT and a first for Plumlee and a 2nd for Green. So essentially you're trading Dragic, 2 1sts, a 2nd, and Zoran for an expiring (in 1.5 years) 33 year old.

So even if you think Joe is better, this only makes sense if the only thing you care about is this season, and even then our bench is going to take a step back without IT and Green and Plumlee. Hell, between Dragic, IT, and Green all out the door, you've traded arguably 2 of our top 3 current players and 3 of our top 7 overall.

[letsgosuns]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

1.5 years of joe johnson is no great haul. just because the depth chart is more straight forward to fill out doesn't mean the team would be better

It is very difficult to get anything good in return for a player that is about to become a free agent unless he is a true superstar. Plus it is not just getting back Joe Johnson. The Suns also rid themselves of Thomas and his contract.

[AtheJ415]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

1.5 years of joe johnson is no great haul. just because the depth chart is more straight forward to fill out doesn't mean the team would be better

It is very difficult to get anything good in return for a player that is about to become a free agent unless he is a true superstar. Plus it is not just getting back Joe Johnson. The Suns also rid themselves of Thomas and his contract.

What makes you think Thomas' deal is bad? Joe makes as much as Goran and Bledsoe COMBINED. Thomas' deal is front-loaded. He makes $6.9 next year, then 6.5, then 6.2. That's an asset not a hinderance.

[oldjeezy]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

1.5 years of joe johnson is no great haul. just because the depth chart is more straight forward to fill out doesn't mean the team would be better

It is very difficult to get anything good in return for a player that is about to become a free agent unless he is a true superstar. Plus it is not just getting back Joe Johnson. The Suns also rid themselves of Thomas and his contract.

I get that Thomas can be frustrating at times, but at the level he's producing on that contract he's an asset, not someone you throw into a bad deal to rid yourself of

[AtheJ415]

1.5 years of joe johnson is no great haul. just because the depth chart is more straight forward to fill out doesn't mean the team would be better

It is very difficult to get anything good in return for a player that is about to become a free agent unless he is a true superstar. Plus it is not just getting back Joe Johnson. The Suns also rid themselves of Thomas and his contract.

I get that Thomas can be frustrating at times, but at the level he's producing on that contract he's an asset, not someone you throw into a bad deal to rid yourself of

4 players in the league averaged 20 and 8 with his shooting last year. All of the others are on max or near max deals. I get that people hate the way IT plays, but he is no question an asset.

[letsgosuns]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

If you think Johnson is still a better player then you're wrong. Even if he was, dumping IT, Green (another expiring, so even if you think he's a negative simply don't re-sign him), Plumlee is moronic.

IT isn't a fan favorite here, but his advanced stats are awesome and he has value. He makes $6 million going forward, 1/11 of the CURRENT cap, which is expected to go up and make him even more valuable. Negatives aside, he's a 6th man of the year finalist for the next 5 years or so, and his contract is miniscule.

Plumlee is a quality, proven backup big in a league without many good big men (resulting in guys like Mozgov getting 2 1sts in exchange) on a rookie deal for a few more years. He also has value even if his PT on this particular team is declining.

You pay what the market dictates. Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, and Brooke Lopez have all been shopped all season long, with the 1st 2 being given away with no takers. The Nets want to rid themselves of bad contracts. With Lopez they want some type of return, but with the others they are happy to dump them. You don't trade an All-NBA player from last year in his prime, even if you think he's leaving, for a guy the other team is trying to give away and who is also expiring.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Phoenix could get a first for IT and a first for Plumlee and a 2nd for Green. So essentially you're trading Dragic, 2 1sts, a 2nd, and Zoran for an expiring 33 year old.

So even if you think Joe is better, this only makes sense if the only thing you care about is this season, and even then our bench is going to take a step back without IT and Green and Plumlee.

Maybe you and I just think differently about the Suns and what they are. This team will never go anywhere with a dual point guard lineup and especially not a three point guard lineup. Joe Johnson allows to team to match up so much better on defense it is not even close. I put Plumlee and Green in the trade because I had to in order to make it work financially. However, If you want to keep a player like Plumlee who went from being the starter, to the backup, to playing so terrible the Suns had to trade to get a replacement for him then I do not know what you are watching. And Thomas' contract might be miniscule, but his impact is not. I 100% despise his game and everything he does. Go ahead and tell me one team in the history of the NBA that won a championship with a 5'9" point guard as a major part of the team. It is impossible for him to play defense because players shoot over him like he is not even there.

[letsgosuns]

This is all I am saying. Dragic imo is leaving at the end of the year. I think the Thomas signing was a huge mistake and only made because the Suns believed that they were trading Bledsoe. Green is going to be a free agent. Z. Dragic never even plays. Plumlee has been horrible since the second half of last season. (I was a huge Plumlee supporter but I finally could not defend him anymore because he regressed so dramatically). If you can think of a trade to get more than Joe Johnson and what he would bring to this team for Dragic and Thomas then let me know. This is a trade that does multiple things. Provides a closer and veteran leadership for the team allowing them to still compete for a playoff spot. Opens up time for the young guys. Does not hurt the Suns financially in the long run. I want the Suns to make the playoffs this year. Joe Johnson and Dragic are completely different players. Dragic is redundant because of Bledsoe. He just stands in the corner now half the time. That is not his game. He wants to run the team and he is not going to anymore. He is going to leave. Joe Johnson can stand in the corner and shoot threes all day long. It is perfect for him. And he will be able to play defense on the bigger guards like Dragic cannot do. Johnson can handle the ball in crunch time. Make those game winning shots. That is what the Suns truly need.

[AtheJ415]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

If you think Johnson is still a better player then you're wrong. Even if he was, dumping IT, Green (another expiring, so even if you think he's a negative simply don't re-sign him), Plumlee is moronic.

IT isn't a fan favorite here, but his advanced stats are awesome and he has value. He makes $6 million going forward, 1/11 of the CURRENT cap, which is expected to go up and make him even more valuable. Negatives aside, he's a 6th man of the year finalist for the next 5 years or so, and his contract is miniscule.

Plumlee is a quality, proven backup big in a league without many good big men (resulting in guys like Mozgov getting 2 1sts in exchange) on a rookie deal for a few more years. He also has value even if his PT on this particular team is declining.

You pay what the market dictates. Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, and Brooke Lopez have all been shopped all season long, with the 1st 2 being given away with no takers. The Nets want to rid themselves of bad contracts. With Lopez they want some type of return, but with the others they are happy to dump them. You don't trade an All-NBA player from last year in his prime, even if you think he's leaving, for a guy the other team is trying to give away and who is also expiring.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Phoenix could get a first for IT and a first for Plumlee and a 2nd for Green. So essentially you're trading Dragic, 2 1sts, a 2nd, and Zoran for an expiring 33 year old.

So even if you think Joe is better, this only makes sense if the only thing you care about is this season, and even then our bench is going to take a step back without IT and Green and Plumlee.

Maybe you and I just think differently about the Suns and what they are. This team will never go anywhere with a dual point guard lineup and especially not a three point guard lineup. Joe Johnson allows to team to match up so much better on defense it is not even close. I put Plumlee and Green in the trade because I had to in order to make it work financially. However, If you want to keep a player like Plumlee who went from being the starter, to the backup, to playing so terrible the Suns had to trade to get a replacement for him then I do not know what you are watching. And Thomas' contract might be miniscule, but his impact is not. I 100% despise his game and everything he does. Go ahead and tell me one team in the history of the NBA that won a championship with a 5'9" point guard as a major part of the team. It is impossible for him to play defense because players shoot over him like he is not even there.

Even if that was true, you don't throw away our best or 2nd best player for a guy on the brink of retirement. This trade is one that cripples our future in exchange for an 8 seed.

And the Suns didn't "have to trade to get a replacement for (Plumlee)". They saw a player who fit what they do and need as well as anyone in the entire league, can play both C and backup PF (so not just to replace Plumlee, in fact he plays PF a LOT for us) and picked him up to get his bird rights. Plumlee's miniscule salary allows us to add more players who compete at his positions without crippling us. And watch other teams besides the Suns. There are countless teams in this league who could use a backup as good as him. Backup bigs in this league all, for the most part, suck. Wright is the best there is in that department. Plumlee's still probably a top 5-10 backup center. Our problem is our starters aren't as good as many teams' stars at 3 of the 5 positions on the court.

And hate to break it to you, but Isaiah has proven to be good enough to be a bench player on a title team. Just because it hasn't happened before is quite frankly irrelevant. There was a time when nobody could travel faster than a horse. Times change. Just like Joe Johnson used to be better than Goran Dragic, but isn't anymore. Isaiah's advanced stats capture his defensive weaknesses, and he's still better than any other bench PG out there despite that. Most backup PGs from title teams aren't capable of putting up 20 and 8 on the offensive end efficiently. He takes bad shots, but he hits more of them than other PGs hit good shots. I get the frustration with him, but he's actually one of the reasons we're good and not the problem.

Also, Goran is 6'4". There are plenty of NBA teams that have won titles with 6'4" shooting guards.

The reason this team isn't going anywhere isn't because of our point guards. Our point guards are our best players. The reason is that we lack developed skill at other positions, namely SF-C. Instead of dumping our current, very good guards for an over-the-hill, traditional 2 guard, we should be trying to use pieces (including one of those guards if need be) to acquire SFs, PFs, and Cs as good as our point guards. If our 3-5 spots were as good as our 1 and 2 spots we'd no question be contending.

[AtheJ415]

This is all I am saying. Dragic imo is leaving at the end of the year. I think the Thomas signing was a huge mistake and only made because the Suns believed that they were trading Bledsoe. Green is going to be a free agent. Z. Dragic never even plays. Plumlee has been horrible since the second half of last season. (I was a huge Plumlee supporter but I finally could not defend him anymore because he regressed so dramatically). If you can think of a trade to get more than Joe Johnson and what he would bring to this team for Dragic and Thomas then let me know. This is a trade that does multiple things. Provides a closer and veteran leadership for the team allowing them to still compete for a playoff spot. Opens up time for the young guys. Does not hurt the Suns financially in the long run. I want the Suns to make the playoffs this year. Joe Johnson and Dragic are completely different players. Dragic is redundant because of Bledsoe. He just stands in the corner now half the time. That is not his game. He wants to run the team and he is not going to anymore. He is going to leave. Joe Johnson can stand in the corner and shoot threes all day long. It is perfect for him. And he will be able to play defense on the bigger guards like Dragic cannot do. Johnson can handle the ball in crunch time. Make those game winning shots. That is what the Suns truly need.

I'd rather actually take one of Houston's ridiculous trade offers and get the NOP pick than take Joe. Then we'd still have Plumlee, Green, and Thomas as trade chips, can draft a guy at one of our actual need positions, and would avoid Joe's $20+ million dollar cap hit next year.

I agree Zoran has pretty much no value right now. There's just a huge opportunity cost associated with the trade you proposed that you aren't seeing because you hate the way IT plays and think Plumlee just sucks.

[suns91fan]

^Besides the fact that I think Johnson is still a better player than Dragic right now anyway, and this trade gets rid of the logjam at point guard, you want Dragic to walk at the end of the season without getting anything in return?

If you think Johnson is still a better player then you're wrong. Even if he was, dumping IT, Green (another expiring, so even if you think he's a negative simply don't re-sign him), Plumlee is moronic.

IT isn't a fan favorite here, but his advanced stats are awesome and he has value. He makes $6 million going forward, 1/11 of the CURRENT cap, which is expected to go up and make him even more valuable. Negatives aside, he's a 6th man of the year finalist for the next 5 years or so, and his contract is miniscule.

Plumlee is a quality, proven backup big in a league without many good big men (resulting in guys like Mozgov getting 2 1sts in exchange) on a rookie deal for a few more years. He also has value even if his PT on this particular team is declining.

You pay what the market dictates. Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, and Brooke Lopez have all been shopped all season long, with the 1st 2 being given away with no takers. The Nets want to rid themselves of bad contracts. With Lopez they want some type of return, but with the others they are happy to dump them. You don't trade an All-NBA player from last year in his prime, even if you think he's leaving, for a guy the other team is trying to give away and who is also expiring.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Phoenix could get a first for IT and a first for Plumlee and a 2nd for Green. So essentially you're trading Dragic, 2 1sts, a 2nd, and Zoran for an expiring 33 year old.

So even if you think Joe is better, this only makes sense if the only thing you care about is this season, and even then our bench is going to take a step back without IT and Green and Plumlee.

Maybe you and I just think differently about the Suns and what they are. This team will never go anywhere with a dual point guard lineup and especially not a three point guard lineup. Joe Johnson allows to team to match up so much better on defense it is not even close. I put Plumlee and Green in the trade because I had to in order to make it work financially. However, If you want to keep a player like Plumlee who went from being the starter, to the backup, to playing so terrible the Suns had to trade to get a replacement for him then I do not know what you are watching. And Thomas' contract might be miniscule, but his impact is not. I 100% despise his game and everything he does. Go ahead and tell me one team in the history of the NBA that won a championship with a 5'9" point guard as a major part of the team. It is impossible for him to play defense because players shoot over him like he is not even there.

And Green is 6'8'' and his defense is atrocious. Height is not the only factor when you play defense. There is also brains, effort etc. I think IT is a pretty decent defender for a 5'9'' player. And IT is not playing a major role for the Suns. He plays a 6th man role with an emphasis on scoring. The same thing Crawford is doing for the Clippers, Williams for the Raptors etc. Those guys are scorers, same as IT. In addition, IT can also play a PG role if needed (which he does at the moment along with Bledsoe and Dragic). I can see that only as a positive thing, not negative. He also plays a lot better team ball this month than before. I think he'll be just fine as the season progresses and chemistry improves further.

[AtheJ415]

If you think Johnson is still a better player then you're wrong. Even if he was, dumping IT, Green (another expiring, so even if you think he's a negative simply don't re-sign him), Plumlee is moronic.

IT isn't a fan favorite here, but his advanced stats are awesome and he has value. He makes $6 million going forward, 1/11 of the CURRENT cap, which is expected to go up and make him even more valuable. Negatives aside, he's a 6th man of the year finalist for the next 5 years or so, and his contract is miniscule.

Plumlee is a quality, proven backup big in a league without many good big men (resulting in guys like Mozgov getting 2 1sts in exchange) on a rookie deal for a few more years. He also has value even if his PT on this particular team is declining.

You pay what the market dictates. Joe Johnson, Deron Williams, and Brooke Lopez have all been shopped all season long, with the 1st 2 being given away with no takers. The Nets want to rid themselves of bad contracts. With Lopez they want some type of return, but with the others they are happy to dump them. You don't trade an All-NBA player from last year in his prime, even if you think he's leaving, for a guy the other team is trying to give away and who is also expiring.

I don't think it's a stretch to say Phoenix could get a first for IT and a first for Plumlee and a 2nd for Green. So essentially you're trading Dragic, 2 1sts, a 2nd, and Zoran for an expiring 33 year old.

So even if you think Joe is better, this only makes sense if the only thing you care about is this season, and even then our bench is going to take a step back without IT and Green and Plumlee.

Maybe you and I just think differently about the Suns and what they are. This team will never go anywhere with a dual point guard lineup and especially not a three point guard lineup. Joe Johnson allows to team to match up so much better on defense it is not even close. I put Plumlee and Green in the trade because I had to in order to make it work financially. However, If you want to keep a player like Plumlee who went from being the starter, to the backup, to playing so terrible the Suns had to trade to get a replacement for him then I do not know what you are watching. And Thomas' contract might be miniscule, but his impact is not. I 100% despise his game and everything he does. Go ahead and tell me one team in the history of the NBA that won a championship with a 5'9" point guard as a major part of the team. It is impossible for him to play defense because players shoot over him like he is not even there.

And Green is 6'8'' and his defense is atrocious. Height is not the only factor when you play defense. There is also brains, effort etc. I think IT is a pretty decent defender for a 5'9'' player. And IT is not playing a major role for the Suns. He plays a 6th man role with an emphasis on scoring. The same thing Crawford is doing for the Clippers, Williams for the Raptors etc. Those guys are scorers, same as IT. In addition, IT can also play a PG role if needed (which he does at the moment along with Bledsoe and Dragic). I can see that only as a positive thing, not negative. He also plays a lot better team ball this month than before. I think he'll be just fine as the season progresses and chemistry improves further.

Exactly, and you always have to come back to his contract too. IT's height is the reason we have him for the bargain $6.5 mill remaining on average over the next 3 years instead of costing $16 million per season. Guys who are 24 and drop 20 and 8 on good shooting get maxes in this league. If IT is taller he's getting max (see Kyrie, who put up nearly identical numbers last season).

IT can't contest shots, but he's also not as awful a defender as people think. He's great at avoiding picks and getting to the right spots. Also, to get rid of the 3 PG lineup doesn't mean we have to trade him. Goran is a combo guard (always has been frankly--even in the Nash days he played plenty of 2), so it's also a bit of a misnomer to call it a 2 or 3 PG lineup. It's more that we have 1 PG in IT and 2 combo guards who are both capable of playing either position. If we had better SFs, PFs, and Cs, then you simply keep IT as the backup PG and Goran and Bledsoe as the 2 starting combo guards. You don't play all 3 at the same time anymore though. A traditional lineup can appease having a good 6th man at PG and a starting lineup that features a combo guard who isn't really undersized (again, Goran at 6'4" isn't really an undersized 2).