Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

[letsgosuns]

I'll just say that I'm glad you are not our GM. You are trading away 44 points per game and expecting Joe Johnson to replace that and lead us to the playoffs..........

No. I am expecting Joe Johnson to help while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis can become the new bench crew while they are developing for the future. Johnson replaces Dragic while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis replace Thomas and Green.

What makes Joe Johnson so special that he can mentor our young guys better than the guys we have now? And weren't you just saying that they aren't ready and that next season is going to be a **** without Dragic and Green because they aren't ready? None of this makes any sense.

You also said that Joe would help us make the playoffs.......

Well if I said how I really feel, people would think I am crazy but fine, I will say it. Trade everyone but Len, Bledsoe, Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis. The team is literally the ninth best team in the west as currently constructed and kinda screwed. I hate it. The Morris brothers are weak and soft. Tucker sucks offensively. Thomas is a selfish player. Dragic is going to leave. Green is probably going to leave because the Suns do not play him consistently. Plumlee sucks. Wright can stay or not.

Build a team around Alex Len. Make Alex Len the star. Hope that either Goodwin or Warren become a star as well. Build from scratch. Colangelo is not here. Players do not sign with the Suns like they used to. The Suns have not signed a marquee free agent since Steve Nash. Enough with this nonsense middle of the pack stuff.

If you want to keep Dragic, then fine. Trade Bledsoe. Please just stop having dual point guards. I hate it so much. It is not a formula for winning. A combination of Kidd, Hardaway, and KJ (all three were so much better than Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas) could not even get more than one win against the Lakers in 2000. They beat the Spurs that year but Tim Duncan did not play. Small ball will never win.

[Kerrsed]

A lot of you guys love Demarcus Cousins even though I am not a big fan of his. Well do not forget what he said about Isaiah Thomas: “It’s been incredible, it’s been incredible,” Cousins said. “It’s been a smooth transition. The ball is moving a lot better. It’s not stuck in one place. It’s not being overdribbled by anybody on the floor.” The Kings are not a good team with or without Isaiah Thomas. But their star player sure is happy that he is gone.

And Sacramento is still terrible. I don't think IT was the problem.

On top of that, IT was their STARTING PG and PRIMARY BALL-HANDLER, which he is neither on our team.

[AtheJ415]

No. I am expecting Joe Johnson to help while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis can become the new bench crew while they are developing for the future. Johnson replaces Dragic while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis replace Thomas and Green.

What makes Joe Johnson so special that he can mentor our young guys better than the guys we have now? And weren't you just saying that they aren't ready and that next season is going to be a **** without Dragic and Green because they aren't ready? None of this makes any sense.

You also said that Joe would help us make the playoffs.......

Well if I said how I really feel, people would think I am crazy but fine, I will say it. Trade everyone but Len, Bledsoe, Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis. The team is literally the ninth best team in the west as currently constructed and kinda screwed. I hate it. The Morris brothers are weak and soft. Tucker sucks offensively. Thomas is a selfish player. Dragic is going to leave. Green is probably going to leave because the Suns do not play him consistently. Plumlee sucks. Wright can stay or not.

Build a team around Alex Len. Make Alex Len the star. Hope that either Goodwin or Warren become a star as well. Build from scratch. Colangelo is not here. Players do not sign with the Suns like they used to. The Suns have not signed a marquee free agent since Steve Nash. Enough with this nonsense middle of the pack stuff.

If you want to keep Dragic, then fine. Trade Bledsoe. Please just stop having dual point guards. I hate it so much. It is not a formula for winning. A combination of Kidd, Hardaway, and KJ (all three were so much better than Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas) could not even get more than one win against the Lakers in 2000. They beat the Spurs that year but Tim Duncan did not play. Small ball will never win.

I don't agree with any of this, but even if I had your thoughts on who to build around, why go about it that way? We can keep all those players you said to build around, and still keep the guys we have who are young and all improving. You are intent on destroying the 2nd youngest (to NO) and least experienced team that is in playoff contention to build for the future (ignoring that many of those guys you hate are youngens themselves and improving), and your desired target in exchange for dumping half our team (and while I get it you think IT sucks and you'd trade him even for a second, can you not see that there are teams out there that would trade a first for him, so it would be stupid to not hold out for a first rounder?) is a 33 year old SG who hasn't been worth his contract in about a decade. I like Joe. I really do. He's overpaid, but a lot of players are overpaid, but his contract is the grand daddy of bad contracts outside of maybe Deron Williams. We would be better sitting and waiting for everyone to walk and using our cap space to get someone 10 years younger who might be good by the time those guys you want us to build around are ready to contend. You're essentially saying we should build for our future by trading half our young guys for a really old SG who is on a mega max contract. It just makes no sense.


We can keep Bledsoe and Dragic, continue to develop Len into a star and give him touches, and move Tucker or let Green walk next year to give Warren or Goodwin minutes to see if either develops. Then, we'd still have 2 borderline all stars and 2 stars (Len and one of Warren/Goodwin in your hypothetical) at the end. With your scenario, we have 2 stars and nobody else.

[AtheJ415]

I just plugged that Goran, Zoran, Plumlee, IT, Green for Johnson trade into the trade machine. Estimates 13 additional losses for Phoenix.

[letsgosuns]

What makes Joe Johnson so special that he can mentor our young guys better than the guys we have now? And weren't you just saying that they aren't ready and that next season is going to be a **** without Dragic and Green because they aren't ready? None of this makes any sense.

You also said that Joe would help us make the playoffs.......

Well if I said how I really feel, people would think I am crazy but fine, I will say it. Trade everyone but Len, Bledsoe, Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis. The team is literally the ninth best team in the west as currently constructed and kinda screwed. I hate it. The Morris brothers are weak and soft. Tucker sucks offensively. Thomas is a selfish player. Dragic is going to leave. Green is probably going to leave because the Suns do not play him consistently. Plumlee sucks. Wright can stay or not.

Build a team around Alex Len. Make Alex Len the star. Hope that either Goodwin or Warren become a star as well. Build from scratch. Colangelo is not here. Players do not sign with the Suns like they used to. The Suns have not signed a marquee free agent since Steve Nash. Enough with this nonsense middle of the pack stuff.

If you want to keep Dragic, then fine. Trade Bledsoe. Please just stop having dual point guards. I hate it so much. It is not a formula for winning. A combination of Kidd, Hardaway, and KJ (all three were so much better than Dragic, Bledsoe, and Thomas) could not even get more than one win against the Lakers in 2000. They beat the Spurs that year but Tim Duncan did not play. Small ball will never win.

I don't agree with any of this, but even if I had your thoughts on who to build around, why go about it that way? We can keep all those players you said to build around, and still keep the guys we have who are young and all improving. You are intent on destroying the 2nd youngest (to NO) and least experienced team that is in playoff contention to build for the future (ignoring that many of those guys you hate are youngens themselves and improving), and your desired target in exchange for dumping half our team (and while I get it you think IT sucks and you'd trade him even for a second, can you not see that there are teams out there that would trade a first for him, so it would be stupid to not hold out for a first rounder?) is a 33 year old SG who hasn't been worth his contract in about a decade. I like Joe. I really do. He's overpaid, but a lot of players are overpaid, but his contract is the grand daddy of bad contracts outside of maybe Deron Williams. We would be better sitting and waiting for everyone to walk and using our cap space to get someone 10 years younger who might be good by the time those guys you want us to build around are ready to contend. You're essentially saying we should build for our future by trading half our young guys for a really old SG who is on a mega max contract. It just makes no sense.


We can keep Bledsoe and Dragic, continue to develop Len into a star and give him touches, and move Tucker or let Green walk next year to give Warren or Goodwin minutes to see if either develops. Then, we'd still have 2 borderline all stars and 2 stars (Len and one of Warren/Goodwin in your hypothetical) at the end. With your scenario, we have 2 stars and nobody else.

But I do not want to keep Bledsoe and Dragic. I want one or the other. They are both point guards and I keep saying I do not believe in a dual point guard system. Having two point guards makes it difficult to give Len touches because they both want the ball. So while that happens, Len suffers. I think Dragic became a third team All NBA player when Bledsoe got hurt last season. Then I remember Bledsoe having one of his best games of the season against the Spurs when Dragic was out injured the end of last year. I was thinking at the time, wow, I wonder what Bledsoe could do if he was given full control of the team. I also see this year how much Dragic has suffered by relegating him to a faux shooting guard role. Then throwing in Isaiah Thomas has totally screwed up Gerald Green this year. But regardless, you only need one point guard.

It would be like the Clippers maxing out Bledsoe and starting him with Chris Paul. It is redundant. Paul and Bledsoe both need the ball in their hands to be effective. Just like Dragic and Bledsoe both need the ball in their hands to be effective. It is not too far off from when Barkley and Olajuwon were on the Rockets. Olajuwon said himself it did not work because they both play the same kind of role and they clashed with each other. Players need defined roles and the Suns have several players that are all playing out of position.

[MrMiyagi]

I just plugged that Goran, Zoran, Plumlee, IT, Green for Johnson trade into the trade machine. Estimates 13 additional losses for Phoenix.

Sounds like that'll push us into the playoffs!!!!

[MrMiyagi]

Maybe if we stop responding, he'll give up

[letsgosuns]

Maybe if we stop responding, he'll give up

Give up what? Change my opinion? I am not trying to convince anybody that I am right. This a basketball forum and we are discussing basketball trades in a trade thread. That is all.

[Bogyo]

Well, he is right about that IT needs to go.
Do we want to alienate our All NBA point guard, then cry a river when he signs elsewhere this offseason? Becouse this is how you alienate your All NBA point guard.... Then you can cry and b*itch about him leaving. But hey, at least we can all enjoy the ballstopping midget running the show next year.

[RaisingArizona]

I just plugged that Goran, Zoran, Plumlee, IT, Green for Johnson trade into the trade machine. Estimates 13 additional losses for Phoenix.

Sounds like that'll push us into the playoffs!!!!

That's the plan. To continually suck. Making the playoffs makes us a treadmill team with no future.

[RaisingArizona]

Okay here is my idea of a trade that I believe:
A) makes the Suns better
B) opens up time to develop Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis
C) works under the realgm trade checker

The Suns trade G. Dragic, Thomas, Green, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic for Joe Johnson. I would have liked to keep Green but his salary is needed for financial reasons. The new Suns lineup would be:

Bledsoe/Ennis/Goodwin
Johnson/Goodwin/Bullock
Tucker/Warren/Bullock
Markieff/Marcus/Tucker
Len/Wright/Markieff

Goodbye dual and three point guard lineup (which I think is the dumbest idea possible). No longer are the Suns undersized at the wings getting destroyed by the opponent by being so undersized. No real center other than Len but it is not like Plumlee is so great.

Would the Suns bench scoring take a major hit? Probably, until the young guys develop and then most likely become awesome. Would the Suns gain a veteran presence that has taken big shots his entire career and would drastically help down the stretch of games and provide leadership? Absolutely.

I think Dragic is going to leave the Suns without a doubt. Plus no way in hell would I give him the contract Bledsoe got and he is probably going to get offered more than that from someone. Secondly I would love to get rid of Thomas' me first, ball hogging, ball stopping attitude. I still love watching Green when he is on but like I said before his salary needs to be included to make the deal work. Z. Dragic and Plumlee? So long.

Why do I make this trade if I am the Suns? The Suns are desperate to make the playoffs and everyone knows they are not going to. Replacing low IQ players with Joe Johnson makes a dramatic improvement. Just imagine if the Suns had Johnson on the team to take all those shots at the end of games like against the Clippers, Thunder, or Grizzlies. Those are games that Jonson can win for you. He has done it his entire career. Johnson can also provide leadership to all the young players on the team. I think having him instead of the other guys on this team gives the Suns a much better chance to make the playoffs. He is also only signed for one year after this.

Why does Brooklyn make the trade? Pure salary dump. The only long term salary they keep after this trade is Thomas' decreasing salary. Everyone else they can let walk at the end of the season if they want to. Saves them about 18 million dollars off of next years cap. It is well known they want to trade everyone on their team and this is a good trade for them to save a lot of money on. Then if they want they can actually try to re-sign any of those guys as well.

Seems to make sense to me. Gives the Suns a better chance to make the playoffs while at the same time opening up lots of playing time for the young guys. Why not? Bledsoe, Johnson, and Tucker would be great defensively too. Suns have to make a change if they want to be a playoff team and this could be it.

[RaisingArizona]

We need to develop our youth, so let's trade half of our team for a 33 year old guard.

[letsgosuns]

We need to develop our youth, so let's trade half of our team for a 33 year old guard.

The trade opens up so much playing time for the young guys. Johnson takes Dragic's minutes while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis take Thomas' and Green's minutes. You get rid of three rotational players for one. Automatically opens up time for the young players on the team. What don't you see about that?

[Bogyo]

We need to develop our youth, so let's trade half of our team for a 33 year old guard.

The trade opens up so much playing time for the young guys. Johnson takes Dragic's minutes while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis take Thomas' and Green's minutes. You get rid of three rotational players for one. Automatically opens up time for the young players on the team. What don't you see about that?

Holy cr@p dude, let it go... Yes, the problem is there, but your solution to it bl*ws dead donkeys sweaty b@lls.
Pretty please with sugar on the top, and for the love of all things holy, let it go.

[asudevil]

We need to develop our youth, so let's trade half of our team for a 33 year old guard.

The trade opens up so much playing time for the young guys. Johnson takes Dragic's minutes while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis take Thomas' and Green's minutes. You get rid of three rotational players for one. Automatically opens up time for the young players on the team. What don't you see about that?

THATS NOT THE POINT. JJ at $10mil is a player i wouldnt mind on this team. JJ at $23mil and $25mil HURTS the suns more than helps.

Honestly, i'd at this point just rather release Dragic/Green to free up playing time, than commit almost $50mil to JJ. Financially it makes no sense......and seriously.....there a hundred other trades that make more sense than bringing in JJ for that group.

even trades that we hate make more sense, and give us more value. Dragic alone is worth more than JJ.

hell....IT/Green/Plumlee is worth more than JJ. Besides, holding onto Dragic and trading the rest for value serves the SAME purpose as trading for JJ. and the suns dont have to shell out $25mil for Dragic next year.

You are best served trying to trade IT/Green/Plumlee for some package, and keep Dragic, because you honestly cannot say that JJ helps this team more than Dragic at that price. You just cant.

Len/Wright
Markieff/Marcus
Tucker/Warren
Dragic/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Ennis

+ additional cap space AND value brought in by trading just IT/Green/Plumlee

vs

Len/Wright
Markieff/Marcus
Tucker/Warren
JJ/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Ennis

+ 25mil owed to JJ for 2015-16 season

[thamadkant]

We need to develop our youth, so let's trade half of our team for a 33 year old guard.

The trade opens up so much playing time for the young guys. Johnson takes Dragic's minutes while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis take Thomas' and Green's minutes. You get rid of three rotational players for one. Automatically opens up time for the young players on the team. What don't you see about that?

I can't stop you from posting your ideas, it is a free forum so you are entitled to your opinion.

I also won't mock you or belittle you for your ideas.

But I think you already know that idea of Joe Johnson for legit assets is not a good idea from a business point of view. Well atleast the majority here thinks so.

Joe Johnson is a negative asset... Teams can have him for a late first rounder so that Nets simply save 40 million on him.

If Suns also decide to trade Dragic, there will be much better offers than Joe Johnson.



With that said, some suns fans here can be really obnoxious. Personal insults for offering ideas bad or good is really childish.

[letsgosuns]

We need to develop our youth, so let's trade half of our team for a 33 year old guard.

The trade opens up so much playing time for the young guys. Johnson takes Dragic's minutes while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis take Thomas' and Green's minutes. You get rid of three rotational players for one. Automatically opens up time for the young players on the team. What don't you see about that?

THATS NOT THE POINT. JJ at $10mil is a player i wouldnt mind on this team. JJ at $23mil and $25mil HURTS the suns more than helps.

Honestly, i'd at this point just rather release Dragic/Green to free up playing time, than commit almost $50mil to JJ. Financially it makes no sense......and seriously.....there a hundred other trades that make more sense than bringing in JJ for that group.

even trades that we hate make more sense, and give us more value. Dragic alone is worth more than JJ.

hell....IT/Green/Plumlee is worth more than JJ. Besides, holding onto Dragic and trading the rest for value serves the SAME purpose as trading for JJ. and the suns dont have to shell out $25mil for Dragic next year.

You are best served trying to trade IT/Green/Plumlee for some package, and keep Dragic, because you honestly cannot say that JJ helps this team more than Dragic at that price. You just cant.

Len/Wright
Markieff/Marcus
Tucker/Warren
Dragic/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Ennis

+ additional cap space AND value brought in by trading just IT/Green/Plumlee

vs

Len/Wright
Markieff/Marcus
Tucker/Warren
JJ/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Ennis

+ 25mil owed to JJ for 2015-16 season

Well I have literally said at least three times now, if you guys do not like the Joe Johnson trade, then think of another trade. Johnson was just an idea to help unclog the point guard jam and give the young guys playing time. I thought of this trade because it allows the Suns to unload several players while only taking back one in return.

[thamadkant]

I still think Batum would be great for the suns.

Tucker, Green, Plumlee and a pick.

Batum is a legit borderline star, could be the Bogut effect for the Suns (Bogut makes Warriors a contender)

[carey]

Trading for Joe Johnson? Really? W. T. F.

[carey]

Well I have literally said at least three times now, if you guys do not like the Joe Johnson trade, then think of another trade. Johnson was just an idea to help unclog the point guard jam and give the young guys playing time. I thought of this trade because it allows the Suns to unload several players while only taking back one in return.

You know what else does that? Not trading anyone and just playing the young guys. You don't make a bad trade to free up room for a player unless you're moving someone out of the way for an incoming No. 1 pick or something. But the idea that we'd move guys to get Warren & Ennis time while paying Joe Johnson $20Mil+ a year is kind of ... out there.

Also, you're telling people to think of another trade but this thread has literally 1,000 posts doing exactly that. So...

When did this idea that Hornacek was beholden to playing certain guys start? If Warren, Goodwin, or Ennis were better than the people in front of them they'd be playing. Bank on that. Hornacek ain't about no egos. I get the school of thought that you don't know what a player is until they get regular minutes at the NBA lvl, well I have faith that seeing these guys every day Hornacek knows better than we do when that will be.