Horny's Zero Tech Tolerance

[Christine-In-AZ]

I like Jeff Hornacek plenty as a coach, but I think this self-ejecting for the remainder of a game if a player gets a tech (arguing with a ref) is a very bad call by Jeff.

Yes! The Suns were getting too many, and too many dumb technicals, but his rule will do far more damage than good.

Yep, there will be less technicals, but the damage for each can now be ten-fold. Punishes the player, the rest of the team and the fans. Any good that would result from lowering the frequency of techs is completely wiped-out by players missing 2 or 3 quarters of action. While a poorly timed tech can possibly hurt a team, benching one of your best players is self-destructive.

Technical fouls have been part of the NBA forever. Sometimes players need/want to get technicals. There are dumb techs and smart ones. Hornacek's rule doesn't distinguish good from bad.

If the rule continues, the opposition will find a way to use it to their advantage...by prodding.

When does the edict end? How much damage will be done to the W-L total? And will the players (grown men) have learned their lesson?

There has to be a better way to punish the offender than by punishing the entire team and fan base.

I don't like it. Frankly, I think it's dumb...what about you?

[Qwigglez]

If he really wants to teach our starters to not get techs he should be benching them the next game. Let Warren start over Tucker, and see how Tucker feels. Let Wright start over Kieff.

[batsmasher]

Excellent idea. The only way this team makes the playoffs is if they all mature together. They're undisciplined and young, so they're going to lose from the lack of discipline either way. Whether it be through techs or bad decisions on the court.

Sure, we might lose a couple of games because of it, but hopefully the players grow out of their whining immature ways. We simply cannot afford the culture to remain how it is. It'll cost us in the long run.

[NaturalBuns]

I don't know. Last year Tucker/Gerald/Markieff would get a T and
Sometimes it would jolt the team.

This year it's been nothing but negative.

[BVPN]

It's a good idea, it's more important for this team to learn discipline right now than pick up Ws. We aren't contenders anyway, and this will be good in the long run

[Christine-In-AZ]

Excellent idea. The only way this team makes the playoffs is if they all mature together. They're undisciplined and young, so they're going to lose from the lack of discipline either way. Whether it be through techs or bad decisions on the court.

Sure, we might lose a couple of games because of it, but hopefully the players grow out of their whining immature ways. We simply cannot afford the culture to remain how it is. It'll cost us in the long run.

Before the rule...Say if Keef or Bledsoe or Dragic gets a tech with a minute to go in a tie game arguing a call, everyone would agree, that's probably a dumb (harmful T). The call is not going to get changed by arguing, and you've given the opposition a free throw. If Jeff Hornacek gets a a technical in the same situation, it's just as dumb...just as harmful. The ref is not changing the call because Jeff screamed.

With this rule, Jeff has diminished his effectiveness in the ever present debate with the officials. Seriously. How can Jeff justify any technicals he gets from now on with this zero tolerance policy he's put in place? Does he now punish himself for his own immaturity?

Also, all technicals are not justified. If 5 minutes into next Wednesday's game John Wall clearly hacks EB and the refs miss it...Eric "loses his wits" for a split second and does something the ref doesn't like...maybe no words even spoken, gets T'd up, he's done for the game. Leaving no room to judge shades of gray is immature, over simplified and potential harmful in the long run.

You can't expect players to be both passionate and absolutely in full control of their emotions. They aren't robots. A technical here and there is not a bad thing ...well? Now it's potentially a disaster every game.

...and again, how long does Jeff keep this 1 and done rule in place?

It's funny, because I'm actually not one to worry about making the playoffs this year. I'm still focused much more on the future, but this rule seems very strange to me.

[3rdside]

It's a poor idea along the lines of 'I'm the teacher and you're the naughty students'...all it says (along with the stupidly high number of tech fouls) is Hornacek is struggling to maintain control of his team as a result of his lack of strength as an individual, combined with:

- A number of questionable personalities on the team i.e. thug attitudes.
- Poor acquisitions (too many guards) meaning pissed off attitudes for any guard that is playing out of position /not playing enough / not playing at all.
- Bad bad roster management (Goodwin / TJ / Ennis) meaning more pissed off attitudes.

A blow out loss at home to the Clips - while acknowledging it's just one game - is testament to this view.

I haven't given up on Hornacek yet but we need to do something pretty special via a trade now or in the offseason in order to see where he's at. This time next year with the same record and he's on his way out.

[MrMiyagi]

So people were bitching that we get too many techs, and now that Horny is trying to solve that problem, it's a bad idea?

I'm with Horny. Techs need to stop and the only way they will is with consequences.

[3rdside]

I should have been clearer - there should be an option on this poll that says:

"Fixing the T issue with automatic sits is the only logical thing Hornacek can do but it should never have come to this. That it has suggests Hornacek is struggling to maintain control of his team which is not entirely his fault because of points 1, 2, 3 made above"

[3rdside]

Although point 3 I made above is technically his fault..

[batsmasher]

You can't expect players to be both passionate and absolutely in full control of their emotions. They aren't robots. A technical here and there is not a bad thing ...well? Now it's potentially a disaster every game.

Being passionate has nothing to do with barking at the refs. Passion isn't just "who can scream the loudest and get the most emotional". This team has it all wrong. They'll learn that soon enough.

The end goal isn't to have this rule permanently. It's a growing up period and the players are 100% aware of that.

It's a poor idea along the lines of 'I'm the teacher and you're the naughty students'...all it says (along with the stupidly high number of tech fouls) is Hornacek is struggling to maintain control of his team as a result of his lack of strength as an individual, combined with:

- A number of questionable personalities on the team i.e. thug attitudes.
- Poor acquisitions (too many guards) meaning pissed off attitudes for any guard that is playing out of position /not playing enough / not playing at all.
- Bad bad roster management (Goodwin / TJ / Ennis) meaning more pissed off attitudes.

A blow out loss at home to the Clips - while acknowledging it's just one game - is testament to this view.

I haven't given up on Hornacek yet but we need to do something pretty special via a trade now or in the offseason in order to see where he's at. This time next year with the same record and he's on his way out.

This 100%. Heck, if you want to blame someone, blame McD. The personalities here don't match the coach. Horny shouldn't be expected to be someone he isn't. The players need to grow up.

It's the reason Pop works so well with his team. He's a similar style of coach to Horny ('one big family' coaching), but he has a bunch of players that all buy into the family. The egos on this team are preventing that.

[Revived]

Are you joking? Popovich has lit into his players many, many times. Hornacek rarely ever does that. Other than the Marcus thing, I have yet to see Hornacek ever get full on mad at a player.

Please don't ever mention Hornacek & Popovich in the same sentence ever again unless your point is to show how much better Popovich is.

[Son of Ra]

I've said it in the game thread already, we were second in technicals last season, first this season. So after 120+ games of your coaching tenure you decide you have to do something about it? Of course no one is gonna listen now. This is on you, the coach.
I thought the same when he made the comment about his player not following his carefully crafted game plan, well that is on you, the coach, as well if your players don't listen.

Obviously I do agree that something needs to be done about it- I've been complaining about it on the forum for quite a while now - and better late than never, but it should have happened after 40 games at the most and not 120.

I like Qwigglez' idea of sitting the t'd up player the next game though.

[Revived]

If the Suns had a superstar on the team, I wonder if Hornacek would still have this rule.

Like if we had LeBron, KD, Westbrook, Davis, Harden etc.

[Christine-In-AZ]

So people were bitching that we get too many techs, and now that Horny is trying to solve that problem, it's a bad idea?

I'm with Horny. Techs need to stop and the only way they will is with consequences.

For the record...not me.

The techs & the Morrii in particular getting techs was a very minor issue for me. The high occurence of techs with this Suns roster over all? Not good, but it was hardly a major concern on my radar.

This Draconian Hornacek solution to too many technicals is over-the-top...and if I was a member of the team, would find it hard not to take it as insulting to my intelligence.

If the staff can't convey the importance of keeping one's cool without the use of "corporal punishment", either the staff needs to change or management has to get rid of the children. Spanking them? Really?

[RunDogGun]

So far I think it's cost us games. Every team barks at the refs. Barnes went on and on about his foul and no tech for him. Jordan ran the full length of the court to argue with the ref, and still was arguing after the timeout. Paul and Griffin both bark at the refs constantly.

I agree that teams will take advantage of this.

Our team is frustrated, as are many fans, by the crap deal we get in calls. Teams are allowed to be over aggressive with us, and we get squat. If Jeff wants the team to feel like someone has his back, he needs to say something after the games about how we get so much contact, but don't get the calls. Take the fine Jeff, it doesn't cost us points, and the team will feel like you have their back.

I like the idea of the benching, but I think it costs us more than the points.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Excellent idea. The only way this team makes the playoffs is if they all mature together. They're undisciplined and young, so they're going to lose from the lack of discipline either way. Whether it be through techs or bad decisions on the court.

Sure, we might lose a couple of games because of it, but hopefully the players grow out of their whining immature ways. We simply cannot afford the culture to remain how it is. It'll cost us in the long run.

With this rule, Jeff has diminished his effectiveness in the ever present debate with the officials. Can Jeff justify any technicals he gets from now on with this zero tolerance policy he's put in place?

Does he now punish himself for his own immaturity when he gets his next tech? No techs are ok...right?

[batsmasher]

Are you joking? Popovich has lit into his players many, many times. Hornacek rarely ever does that. Other than the Marcus thing, I have yet to see Hornacek ever get full on mad at a player.

Please don't ever mention Hornacek & Popovich in the same sentence ever again unless your point is to show how much better Popovich is.

I'm sorry, did I tickle a nerve mentioning him? Budenholzer's another example. You don't need to be crazy disciplined to have bunch of guys buy in.

If the staff can't convey the importance of keeping one's cool without the use of "corporal punishment", either the staff needs to change or management has to get rid of the children. Spanking them? Really?

OK, let's give up on the Morrii, IT, Archie, PJ and Plum. Sounds good.

This issue hasn't been under the table all season. All the staff have been explicitly clear as to what they expect from the players. But there comes a point where the words and warnings can't get through their thick heads. If you take away their minutes, then they might start considering what's best for the team (and themselves for that matter, you're not going to get calls pissing off the refs every game).

With this rule, Jeff has diminished his effectiveness in the ever present debate with the officials. Can Jeff justify any technicals he gets from now on with this zero tolerance policy he's put in place?

Normal players actually go over to the refs during a dead ball and ask about a call. They generally don't start yelling at a ref right after an incident. It's one thing to ask "where's the foul?" or yell "and 1" once right after it happens and another altogether to bark at a ref for 5-10 seconds. It is mind numbingly stupidity.

[Christine-In-AZ]

So far I think it's cost us games. Every team barks at the refs. Barnes went on and on about his foul and no tech for him. Jordan ran the full length of the court to argue with the ref, and still was arguing after the timeout. Paul and Griffin both bark at the refs constantly.

I agree that teams will take advantage of this.

Our team is frustrated, as are many fans, by the crap deal we get in calls. Teams are allowed to be over aggressive with us, and we get squat. If Jeff wants the team to feel like someone has his back, he needs to say something after the games about how we get so much contact, but don't get the calls. Take the fine Jeff, it doesn't cost us points, and the team will feel like you have their back.

I like the idea of the benching, but I think it costs us more than the points.

Agree, that it's possible the rule may have cost us a win or two.

I completely disagree with your tin foil hat BS..."Our team is frustrated, as are many fans, by the crap deal we get in calls. Teams are allowed to be over aggressive with us, and we get squat".

The Suns don't get treated/officiated any differently then the other 29 teams. We get just as many bad calls or fortunate breaks as any other team.

[lilfishi22]

So people were bitching that we get too many techs, and now that Horny is trying to solve that problem, it's a bad idea?

I'm with Horny. Techs need to stop and the only way they will is with consequences.

I agree. In the last 3 seasons (226 games) Kieff was called for 19 T's. This season alone (45 games) he's already been called for 9. This issue with Kieff has been brought up before and it seems it's not getting through to him. T's are part of the game but when you're a league leader in T's, it gets to the point where drastic measures need to come in.