Bradley Beal - Part II

[nate33]

Yeah, I was in favor of the Harden trade.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

beal
miller
gortat
2015 1st unprotected
to the lakers for
lin
hill
2015 1st unprotected

Nope. That's not going to happen. There's no chance EG and Ted completely blow up the team and try to rebuild around some 19-year-old draft pick.

If we trade Beal, it's gotta be for someone like Cousins or Kevin Love or somebody else who is already an established star.

but then again he could've traded a 18yr unproven draft pick for a busding star in harden, maybe the best guard that fits wall offense
lakers already trade they picks to the suns anway..

but man what couldve been
wall
harden
ariza
nene
okafor

Yeah, well, Oakafor hasn't played basketball in two years.

[hands11]

I just tasted some pre burp throw up in my throat thinking about having to cheer for Harden as a Wizard.

No thanks.

I would rather follow the path they are on.

[hands11]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

Wow Miller.

You really know how to hit where it hurts.

Doesn't make sense. He is shooting a CAREER LOW in 3s this year.

Worse then his rookie year.

Last time he had a 20 pt game was Fri 1/2 and he hasn't been over 17 pts since the same time.

[miller31time]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

Wow Miller.

You really know how to hit where it hurts.

Doesn't make sense. He is shooting a CAREER LOW in 3s this year.

Worse then his rookie year.

Last time he had a 20 pt game was Fri 1/2 and he hasn't been over 17 pts since the same time.

I normally don't like to do much speculation but this seems like one instance where the coach's philosophy has a direct (and negative) impact on a player. When a coach's offensive gameplan is to generate long-two's, you can bet Wittman isn't in Bradley's ears saying "why did you pass up that 3 for a long 2?" Most other coaches who have any respect for easily understandable advanced statistics would instruct Beal to take more 3s. Randy? I think he's content.

[keynote]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

It's not just that he doesn't take 3s; he rarely takes *any* contested Js. He doesn't have faith in his ability to shoot over defenders. So, opposing teams know to play up to his chest, and to close out hard on all 3-point looks.

I know folks harp on his (lack of) ball-handling skills; I actually think he should work on quickening his release. I know his shooting form is sacred, but if it's too slow to get off against normal NBA defenses, what good is it?

[Illmatic12]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

Or the other way to look at it, he is a young player that hasn't had dramatic improvement over the last 2.5 seasons. Next season...

Well, sure. I haven't given up on him. But his current game isn't good. The dude hasn't cracked a PER of over 14.3 in his 3 years. And it's not like he's an exceptional defender to make up for this.

Klay Thompson didn't crack a 15 PER in his first three years either. He's a better defender than Beal, but Beal is a superior passer and rebounder (and as much as we complain about his handles, they're easily further ahead of Thompson's at the same age)


I'm willing to be patient with Beal because of his age and skillset. It's painful sometimes watching him out there in games, but I'm a big stats guy and someone who looks up trends and spends a lot of time on bball reference. There are just too many examples of really young players posting pedestrian numbers their first few years, and then suddenly putting it all together at a certain age (usually in the age 23-24 range). Playing SG in the NBA is a man's position and it's very rare for young players to be polished enough to succeed without experience. If Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, etc can put it all together I'm not gonna sit here and say Beal is incapable of doing the same when he is their age.


Anyways, I'm probably not gonna frequent this thread much because it's just going to be people b***ing about a kid who will probably take another season or two to really emerge. Of course we're impatient because we want to be some dominant playoff team right away lol, people forget how garbage this franchise was for years and now that we finally have some promising talent everyone wants to get greedy. Beal can't develop on his own time, he has to be Ray Allen 2.0 off the bat.

[miller31time]

Or the other way to look at it, he is a young player that hasn't had dramatic improvement over the last 2.5 seasons. Next season...

Well, sure. I haven't given up on him. But his current game isn't good. The dude hasn't cracked a PER of over 14.3 in his 3 years. And it's not like he's an exceptional defender to make up for this.

Klay Thompson didn't crack a 15 PER in his first three years either. He's a better defender than Beal, but Beal is a superior passer and rebounder (and as much as we complain about his handles, they're easily further ahead of Thompson's at the same age)


I'm willing to be patient with Beal because of his age and skillset. It's painful sometimes watching him out there in games, but I'm a big stats guy and someone who looks up trends and spends a lot of time on bball reference. There are just too many examples of really young players posting pedestrian numbers their first few years, and then suddenly putting it all together at a certain age (usually in the age 23-24 range). Playing SG in the NBA is a man's position and it's very rare for young players to be polished enough to succeed without experience. If Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, etc can put it all together I'm not gonna sit here and say Beal is incapable of doing the same when he is their age.


Anyways, I'm probably not gonna frequent this thread much because it's just going to be people b***ing about a kid who will probably take another season or two to really emerge. Of course we're impatient because we want to be some dominant playoff team right away lol, people forget how garbage this franchise was for years and now that we finally have some promising talent everyone wants to get greedy. Beal can't develop on his own time, he has to be Ray Allen 2.0 off the bat.

I think you're putting a lot of words in a lot of peoples' mouths. I am in complete agreement with you that (a) we need to give him time and (b) he should progress into a good, maybe very good player.

But I would throw out that for every Klay Thompson and Jimmy Butler, there are players who never did put it all together. Beal has the tools and work ethic but let's not act like, just because others have made the step, he's a guaranteed future stud.

And to the Ray Allen point, the kid is shooting the 3-ball like a prime Ray Allen. Which is kind of why I want him to take more of them.

[miller31time]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

It's not just that he doesn't take 3s; he rarely takes *any* contested Js. He doesn't have faith in his ability to shoot over defenders. So, opposing teams know to play up to his chest, and to close out hard on all 3-point looks.

I know folks harp on his (lack of) ball-handling skills; I actually think he should work on quickening his release. I know his shooting form is sacred, but if it's too slow to get off against normal NBA defenses, what good is it?

Eh, I feel like he takes plenty of contested two's. It's the three-ball that he only takes when he's wide open.

Either way, I find myself saying at least 3 times every game "Shoot the 3, Bradley! Why did you pass that up?"

[Illmatic12]

Well, sure. I haven't given up on him. But his current game isn't good. The dude hasn't cracked a PER of over 14.3 in his 3 years. And it's not like he's an exceptional defender to make up for this.

Klay Thompson didn't crack a 15 PER in his first three years either. He's a better defender than Beal, but Beal is a superior passer and rebounder (and as much as we complain about his handles, they're easily further ahead of Thompson's at the same age)


I'm willing to be patient with Beal because of his age and skillset. It's painful sometimes watching him out there in games, but I'm a big stats guy and someone who looks up trends and spends a lot of time on bball reference. There are just too many examples of really young players posting pedestrian numbers their first few years, and then suddenly putting it all together at a certain age (usually in the age 23-24 range). Playing SG in the NBA is a man's position and it's very rare for young players to be polished enough to succeed without experience. If Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, etc can put it all together I'm not gonna sit here and say Beal is incapable of doing the same when he is their age.


Anyways, I'm probably not gonna frequent this thread much because it's just going to be people b***ing about a kid who will probably take another season or two to really emerge. Of course we're impatient because we want to be some dominant playoff team right away lol, people forget how garbage this franchise was for years and now that we finally have some promising talent everyone wants to get greedy. Beal can't develop on his own time, he has to be Ray Allen 2.0 off the bat.

I think you're putting a lot of words in a lot of peoples' mouths. I am in complete agreement with you that (a) we need to give him time and (b) he should progress into a good, maybe very good player.

But I would throw out that for every Klay Thompson and Jimmy Butler, there are players who never did put it all together. Beal has the tools and work ethic but let's not act like, just because others have made the step, he's a guaranteed future stud.

And to the Ray Allen point, the kid is shooting the 3-ball like a prime Ray Allen. Which is kind of why I want him to take more of them.

Well, I should have clarified my post wasn't totally aimed at your post specifically.. more so a general response to some of the Beal sentiments as of late I've been seeing in the game threads.

The main thing I'm in agreement with is that Beal needs to be taking more threes. Thompson and Curry are up around 6-7 3PAs/game, there's no reason why Beal shouldn't be in that range with his outside shooting ability. Whether that's on coaching or Brad himself I hope it changes. But it's hard for me to be pessimistic about a 21yo who's making solid contributions for a 50+ win playoff team, and has shown legit flashes of very good SG play throughout his young career.

[deneem4]

Nope. That's not going to happen. There's no chance EG and Ted completely blow up the team and try to rebuild around some 19-year-old draft pick.

If we trade Beal, it's gotta be for someone like Cousins or Kevin Love or somebody else who is already an established star.

but then again he could've traded a 18yr unproven draft pick for a busding star in harden, maybe the best guard that fits wall offense
lakers already trade they picks to the suns anway..

but man what couldve been
wall
harden
ariza
nene
okafor

Yeah, well, Oakafor hasn't played basketball in two years.

when the trade proposal occured okafor was healthy

[Induveca]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

Very odd. During the game last night, Denver's broadcast team mentioned the Wizards were the best "mid range" shooting team in the league and how it was a requirement/focus of Wittman's offense. Scott Hastings was almost giddy describing how Wittman's offense was "old school".

Scott Hastings is the Denver announcer, and he played with Wittman for 5 years in Atlanta. Wittman and Hastings have owned 10+ sports bars together off and on for the past 25 years (oddly Doc Rivers and Craig Sager also are part of the ownership group).

Just to hear such a close friend describe what we've all known, that those long Beal/Wall twos are actively coached/encouraged, is beyond frustrating.

[nate33]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

Very odd. During the game last night, Denver's broadcast team mentioned the Wizards were the best "mid range" shooting team in the league and how it was a requirement/focus of Wittman's offense. Scott Hastings was almost giddy describing how Wittman's offense was "old school".

Scott Hastings is the Denver announcer, and he played with Wittman for 5 years in Atlanta. Wittman and Hastings have owned 10+ sports bars together off and on for the past 25 years (oddly Doc Rivers and Craig Sager also are part of the ownership group).

Just to hear such a close friend describe what we've all known, that those long Beal/Wall twos are actively coached/encouraged, is beyond frustrating.

In the back of my mind, I was hoping that Wittman's strategy wasn't quite as detrimental in the playoffs because I assumed that, as the game slowed down, 3-point shots were harder to come by. Unfortunately, I looked up the numbers and was proven wrong. Teams actually shoot a slightly higher percentage of shots from behind the 3-point line in the playoffs. Wittman's philosophy puts us at even more of a disadvantage in the playoffs.

[Ruzious]

While Wittman's reliance on long 2's is a problem, it's not the main problem with Beal. Beal is the main problem with Beal. He gets tons of open jumpers. I think it's either a laziness issue, lack of concentration, or he's hurrying his shot. Whichever it is, the end result is he's not getting full extension on his shots, and they hit off the front of the rim. It's frustrating to watch - especially when I watch a less talented shooter like Jimmy Butler making the effort to use perfect form. But it's a long season, so hopefully he works at it, and the light bulb goes on. Beal's a shooter - first and foremost (He's sure not a consistent creator.), so he's got to make open shots - whether they're short 2's, long 2's, or 3's. No more lazy looking shots off the front of the rim.

[hands11]

Where is this Bradley Beal
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400578755

Maybe he is just focusing on other parts of this game and its throwing him off. This is after the Chicago game.
http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... eal-1-9-15

Since that Houston game where he got up 11 freakn 3s, he has had 8 games out of 15 where he didn't even get up 4 threes.

Four 3 ball should be his bear min. His target should be 6 attempts but I'll live with 5. Hell,I would even live with the min of 4 but it has to be each and every game. That's one per quarter. Hell, Wall took 6 attempts last night in DEN and Beal only had 2

It's not just about Beal and him being efficient. The TEAM needs this from him to help open the floor.

As I mentioned in various other posts, they need him to shoot them more this year then last year because of the roster adjustments they made. There is no AH or Gooden out there taking outside shots. And Otto has yet to get it going where he lets it loose more. They have Hump and Kevin taking mid range shots. Rasual and Paul have steps in some but the team needs more. Last year, TA, Webster and Beal all got up 3s and TA shot a ton. And AH and Gooden.

That means Beal, Wall and Webster have to get it going from three and with Webby not getting it going yet, it falls on Wall and Beal.

Until they do this, we are going to watch these close games that look ugly. Its just the way the game is today. Even more so this year then before. Can't say I am a huge fan of the 3 ball playing such a big part in todays game but it does.

As someone mentioned. Right now they play a style that can beat the Bulls and SAS sometimes. What they need is to also have a style that can beat ATL,TOR, DEN, GS, POR etc.

[Darko Miliminutes]

You guys are all nuts. Beal's just taking a little longer then you hoped. Pierce takin big shots, Rasual was making all those early on, Wall's stepped it up a bit, he missed first 9 games (not too relevant anymore). Do not bring in R. Allen, unless there's a true chance to win a 'ship this year (there's not), or if you instant gratification junkies have actually given up on Beal.

You impatient people, just remember that every time Beal screws up, that's actually progress. Age of a college junior/senior...

[tontoz]

You guys are all nuts. Beal's just taking a little longer then you hoped. Pierce takin big shots, Rasual was making all those early on, Wall's stepped it up a bit, he missed first 9 games (not too relevant anymore). Do not bring in R. Allen, unless there's a true chance to win a 'ship this year (there's not), or if you instant gratification junkies have actually given up on Beal.

You impatient people, just remember that every time Beal screws up, that's actually progress. Age of a college junior/senior...

Just because people criticize Beal doesn't mean they are giving up on him. He has obvious flaws in his game and has shown minimal improvement after 3 seasons.

[Ruzious]

You guys are all nuts. Beal's just taking a little longer then you hoped. Pierce takin big shots, Rasual was making all those early on, Wall's stepped it up a bit, he missed first 9 games (not too relevant anymore). Do not bring in R. Allen, unless there's a true chance to win a 'ship this year (there's not), or if you instant gratification junkies have actually given up on Beal.

You impatient people, just remember that every time Beal screws up, that's actually progress. Age of a college junior/senior...

LOL, if that's the case, he's making the same progress over and over.

We all know he has the talent to become an outstanding player. It's the part about just assuming he's going to get there that we disagree with. He may get there, but we shouldn't ignore that there's a legit possibility he won't. It's logical to be concerned about it - the longer it takes for him to make some progress.

[Dat2U]

Beal is essentially a 3pt specialist who doesn't take 3s. That's the best way I can sum his current game up as.

Very odd. During the game last night, Denver's broadcast team mentioned the Wizards were the best "mid range" shooting team in the league and how it was a requirement/focus of Wittman's offense. Scott Hastings was almost giddy describing how Wittman's offense was "old school".

Scott Hastings is the Denver announcer, and he played with Wittman for 5 years in Atlanta. Wittman and Hastings have owned 10+ sports bars together off and on for the past 25 years (oddly Doc Rivers and Craig Sager also are part of the ownership group).

Just to hear such a close friend describe what we've all known, that those long Beal/Wall twos are actively coached/encouraged, is beyond frustrating.

Much like Wall is a mid-range specialist despite not excelling at the mid-range... for some reason though it's become his go-to shot.

It's not even Witt's offense... It's a re-calibrated version of Flip's offense. So the guy we fired almost a half-a-decade ago, were still using the framework of his offense.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/286038041.html

What other franchise does that? Fire the coach but keep the offense which never actually worked well.

[nate33]

You guys are all nuts. Beal's just taking a little longer then you hoped. Pierce takin big shots, Rasual was making all those early on, Wall's stepped it up a bit, he missed first 9 games (not too relevant anymore). Do not bring in R. Allen, unless there's a true chance to win a 'ship this year (there's not), or if you instant gratification junkies have actually given up on Beal.

You impatient people, just remember that every time Beal screws up, that's actually progress. Age of a college junior/senior...

It would be much easier to buy into that optimism if we were seeing a gradual, tangible improvement from Beal year over year. But so far we haven't. He is pretty much the same exact player in each of his 3 seasons:


Granted, he is probably doing some subtle, intangible things better, like play man-to-man defense; but overall, there has been very little statistical evidence that he is improving all that much. At his age, there is still a possibility that he makes a dramatic leap, but I'm growing more and more skeptical that it will happen. He just seems to lack that one special gift that makes him an unguardable player. He must either learn to break people down off the dribble like Harden or Ginobili, or he's got to quicken his shot release like Thompson or Curry. If neither happens, then he's going to be a solid but unremarkable player who is unable to get his usage rate up to a star-caliber level.