The Tobias Harris Situation

[BadWolf]

I take it back, you don't value harris low. Cousins and Iblocka is a nice return

quit sniping from the shadows and throw out some other suggestions then. where would you value him?

Ibaka isn't a superstar by any stretch of the imagination. you see how good OKC were this season without Durant and Westbrook? They were 4-11, which is worse than us. Ibaka is a glorified role player. He's certainly valuable to a team, but he's not the kind of difference maker you want as your 3rd option.

i don't know who said DMC but that's unrealistic unless the guy is demanding a trade.

but if someone suggested any less than that you're just gonna say we're undervaluing him. so you set the standard then. tell us what Tobias is worth?

Not sure what you expect when you want to trade Tobias for DMC and Ibaka.

Tobias doesn't have much value as most teams can go after him in the off-season. An extended Tobias is a different option entirely. What was the best return in any s&t?

I also think he fits the team well next to Gordon as two hybrid forwards and shouldn't be traded or let go.

Problem with defensively challenged centers us that is hard to get the perfect fit next to them. Ibaka, Brow.... West and maybe Duncan. Our you go for someone with only defensive qualities.

Gordon, when he puts on some weight is a great fit at PF. So he'd struggle against a few guys, like Zbo. But very few teams have a guy that matches up well with everyone. We come back to AD and Ibaka.

[KingRobb02]

I take it back, you don't value harris low. Cousins and Iblocka is a nice return

quit sniping from the shadows and throw out some other suggestions then. where would you value him?

Ibaka isn't a superstar by any stretch of the imagination. you see how good OKC were this season without Durant and Westbrook? They were 4-11, which is worse than us. Ibaka is a glorified role player. He's certainly valuable to a team, but he's not the kind of difference maker you want as your 3rd option.

i don't know who said DMC but that's unrealistic unless the guy is demanding a trade.

but if someone suggested any less than that you're just gonna say we're undervaluing him. so you set the standard then. tell us what Tobias is worth?

Not sure what you expect when you want to trade Tobias for DMC and Ibaka.

Tobias doesn't have much value as most teams can go after him in the off-season. An extended Tobias is a different option entirely. What was the best return in any s&t?

I also think he fits the team well next to Gordon as two hybrid forwards and shouldn't be traded or let go.

Problem with defensively challenged centers us that is hard to get the perfect fit next to them. Ibaka, Brow.... West and maybe Duncan. Our you go for someone with only defensive qualities.

Gordon, when he puts on some weight is a great fit at PF. So he'd struggle against a few guys, like Zbo. But very few teams have a guy that matches up well with everyone. We come back to AD and Ibaka.

Doc Rivers once gave up Ben Wallace unnecessarily to get Grant Hill. Wallace went on to become a top 10 player and win a championship.

[MJallday59]

I think our best bet is to trade him for players that have potential, maintain our draft position this season, and maintain our cap flexibility.

The fact is with or without Tobias, we do not necessarily have an identity. And that says something right there.

In my opinion, if we are going to max out a player he has to have a tremendous impact on the game. So much so, that the team is completely different when he is on the floor and leads to success.

We had maybe our best two wins of the season against Chicago and Houston without Tobias.

I know i'm going to get bashed for this, but I wouldn't mind a Tobias Harris for Noah Vonleh/Gerald Henderson deal.

[cedric76]

I think our best bet is to trade him for players that have potential, maintain our draft position this season, and maintain our cap flexibility.

The fact is with or without Tobias, we do not necessarily have an identity. And that says something right there.

In my opinion, if we are going to max out a player he has to have a tremendous impact on the game. So much so, that the team is completely different when he is on the floor and leads to success.

We had maybe our best two wins of the season against Chicago and Houston without Tobias.

I know i'm going to get bashed for this, but I wouldn't mind a Tobias Harris for Noah Vonleh/Gerald Henderson deal.

Henderson s contract isnt expiering

noah+pick for harris is good

[ChiefWiggumz]

Well what do you guys think about making an offer on DeAndre Jordan in the offseason?

If the Clips don't make a big playoff push, then I can see them not wanting to offer a lot to Jordan, and wanting to re-tool their roster a bit.

I think he would be fine playing next to Vuc. He guards the opponents best big man. He would fit great in an uptempo styled offense. He would also be able to play in line-ups with KOQ and Frye. His FT% is terrible, and as a team, we would have to greatly improve our FT% or we would lose a lot of close games.

All in all, our biggest need is not re-signing Tobias IMO. It is an athletic, defensive, shot blocking big man. Jordan does all of that very well, and he will be available in the off-season.

In the draft, we would have a lot of flexibility, we could address the back-up PG role. Or look for a dynamic scorer off the bench.

[thelead]

Well what do you guys think about making an offer on DeAndre Jordan in the offseason?

If the Clips don't make a big playoff push, then I can see them not wanting to offer a lot to Jordan, and wanting to re-tool their roster a bit.

I think he would be fine playing next to Vuc. He guards the opponents best big man. He would fit great in an uptempo styled offense. He would also be able to play in line-ups with KOQ and Frye. His FT% is terrible, and as a team, we would have to greatly improve our FT% or we would lose a lot of close games.

All in all, our biggest need is not re-signing Tobias IMO. It is an athletic, defensive, shot blocking big man. Jordan does all of that very well, and he will be available in the off-season.

In the draft, we would have a lot of flexibility, we could address the back-up PG role. Or look for a dynamic scorer off the bench.

I wouldn't mind going after DJ and pairing him with Vuc. Doubtful but I would look into it.

[tiderulz]

Well what do you guys think about making an offer on DeAndre Jordan in the offseason?

If the Clips don't make a big playoff push, then I can see them not wanting to offer a lot to Jordan, and wanting to re-tool their roster a bit.

I think he would be fine playing next to Vuc. He guards the opponents best big man. He would fit great in an uptempo styled offense. He would also be able to play in line-ups with KOQ and Frye. His FT% is terrible, and as a team, we would have to greatly improve our FT% or we would lose a lot of close games.

All in all, our biggest need is not re-signing Tobias IMO. It is an athletic, defensive, shot blocking big man. Jordan does all of that very well, and he will be available in the off-season.

In the draft, we would have a lot of flexibility, we could address the back-up PG role. Or look for a dynamic scorer off the bench.

not for the price tag Jordan will demand.

[Orlwillbeback]

Well what do you guys think about making an offer on DeAndre Jordan in the offseason?

If the Clips don't make a big playoff push, then I can see them not wanting to offer a lot to Jordan, and wanting to re-tool their roster a bit.

I think he would be fine playing next to Vuc. He guards the opponents best big man. He would fit great in an uptempo styled offense. He would also be able to play in line-ups with KOQ and Frye. His FT% is terrible, and as a team, we would have to greatly improve our FT% or we would lose a lot of close games.

All in all, our biggest need is not re-signing Tobias IMO. It is an athletic, defensive, shot blocking big man. Jordan does all of that very well, and he will be available in the off-season.

In the draft, we would have a lot of flexibility, we could address the back-up PG role. Or look for a dynamic scorer off the bench.

Im gonna get flamed for this but i think vuc is perhaps the biggest problem with this team. Its hard to be good with guards that cant shoot and a center that doesnt defend the rim.

[Skin]

Well what do you guys think about making an offer on DeAndre Jordan in the offseason?

If the Clips don't make a big playoff push, then I can see them not wanting to offer a lot to Jordan, and wanting to re-tool their roster a bit.

I think he would be fine playing next to Vuc. He guards the opponents best big man. He would fit great in an uptempo styled offense. He would also be able to play in line-ups with KOQ and Frye. His FT% is terrible, and as a team, we would have to greatly improve our FT% or we would lose a lot of close games.

All in all, our biggest need is not re-signing Tobias IMO. It is an athletic, defensive, shot blocking big man. Jordan does all of that very well, and he will be available in the off-season.

In the draft, we would have a lot of flexibility, we could address the back-up PG role. Or look for a dynamic scorer off the bench.

Hmm...

Clippers who are contenders out West are bought out for $2 BILLION dollars and their owner wants to keep DeAndre. Ya'll think we should really spend time thinking about him coming here?

[Skin]

Well what do you guys think about making an offer on DeAndre Jordan in the offseason?

If the Clips don't make a big playoff push, then I can see them not wanting to offer a lot to Jordan, and wanting to re-tool their roster a bit.

I think he would be fine playing next to Vuc. He guards the opponents best big man. He would fit great in an uptempo styled offense. He would also be able to play in line-ups with KOQ and Frye. His FT% is terrible, and as a team, we would have to greatly improve our FT% or we would lose a lot of close games.

All in all, our biggest need is not re-signing Tobias IMO. It is an athletic, defensive, shot blocking big man. Jordan does all of that very well, and he will be available in the off-season.

In the draft, we would have a lot of flexibility, we could address the back-up PG role. Or look for a dynamic scorer off the bench.

Im gonna get flamed for this but i think vuc is perhaps the biggest problem with this team. Its hard to be good with guards that cant shoot and a center that doesnt defend the rim.

Our starting guards are a rookie and 2nd year player. Gimme a break.

Our future SF has been injured all year and is playing behind a guy in a big contract year who loves to hog the ball.

Maybe you should factor in how young the core of this team is before you start proclaiming about how the whole thing is broken.

[tiderulz]

Well what do you guys think about making an offer on DeAndre Jordan in the offseason?

If the Clips don't make a big playoff push, then I can see them not wanting to offer a lot to Jordan, and wanting to re-tool their roster a bit.

I think he would be fine playing next to Vuc. He guards the opponents best big man. He would fit great in an uptempo styled offense. He would also be able to play in line-ups with KOQ and Frye. His FT% is terrible, and as a team, we would have to greatly improve our FT% or we would lose a lot of close games.

All in all, our biggest need is not re-signing Tobias IMO. It is an athletic, defensive, shot blocking big man. Jordan does all of that very well, and he will be available in the off-season.

In the draft, we would have a lot of flexibility, we could address the back-up PG role. Or look for a dynamic scorer off the bench.

Im gonna get flamed for this but i think vuc is perhaps the biggest problem with this team. Its hard to be good with guards that cant shoot and a center that doesnt defend the rim.

guards that cant shoot? Dipo is shooting pretty darn well

[tiderulz]

Our future SF has been injured all year and is playing behind a guy in a big contract year who loves to hog the ball.

so Harris is a ball hog? he shot 5 times the other night. And on a night when he does shoot badly, Dipo shoots even worse, but Dipo isnt a ball hog is he?

oh thats right, Orlando didnt draft Harris, so he sucks.

[magicfan217]

Most Elite teams have an elite defensive big. It can be a 4 or 5 man, but they have one elite big who can block shots and rebound at a good clip. We don't have that. KOQ is a decent backup big, but not one capable of playing 35 minutes on a good team.

While Vuc is an outstanding offensive player, he doesn't provide rim protection and unless we pair an elite rim protecting 4 next to him we are going to struggle on that end of the floor. Those guys are SUPER hard to find. We aren't getting Ibaka or AD so just move on. Maybe a guy like Nerlens Noel is someone we could target? Not sure what, if anything, philly would take for him but that's the kind of guy we need to find...whether its via trade, FA, or next years draft.

[magicfan217]

for the record, I would trade Tobias for Noel Straight up....doubt philly would do that though.

[magicfan217]

Start Noel next to Vuc...use Frye to backup both positions (and KOQ would get some burn in their too).

[Blue_and_Whte]

I take it back, you don't value harris low. Cousins and Iblocka is a nice return

quit sniping from the shadows and throw out some other suggestions then....

Good luck with that.

[Skin]

Our future SF has been injured all year and is playing behind a guy in a big contract year who loves to hog the ball.

so Harris is a ball hog? he shot 5 times the other night. And on a night when he does shoot badly, Dipo shoots even worse, but Dipo isnt a ball hog is he?

oh thats right, Orlando didnt draft Harris, so he sucks.

This has nothing to do with Dipo vs Harris or who ORL drafted vs traded for. I don't even think Harris sucks. You're grasping at air with your connections again. It's almost like you can't stand a single criticism against Harris. I don't really have a big issue with Harris' ball hogging. It seems to be periodic than constant and it stands out more when he is trying to shoot out of his slump and it's not working. The bigger problem with Harris is that his transition to SF has not been smooth defensively. He has struggled to be a good defender there. If he could, then he would be our Superstar...easy. He just isn't capable. I really did think SF would be his best position as a pro, but I'm starting to see that's probably not the case. It's the whole tweener effect. Too slow for the 3, too small for the 4.

However, I'm in the same boat as others who want to see Harris spending more time at PF with Gordon at SF. The wait is for JV to implement that rotation.

I need to know if what we saw in Harris in his first year here is still effective with our new roster. When he first got here we all loved him... I LOVED him... but he played a lot of PF back then. THAT'S what I want to see from him now. He averaged 1.4 blocks per game that season. Since the move to SF, that has gone down to .4 and .6 BPG. I know that's not the "tell all" sign for defense, but he did do a better job there than what he's doing now.

For all we know, maybe Harris is our magical 3-D guy we want at the 4 spot. He's not going to be an elite rim protector or a win a ton of individual defensive match ups against big PFs... so maybe not THAT magical, but he can defend quicker 4s and come up with some surprising blocks when he's in the post. I can see shades of a poor man's Ibaka. Scoring inside/out... rebounding... a lesser shot blocker, but similar when it comes to defending big PFs as they don't have the size to hold their ground or bang back... and conversely they can both keep up with smaller/quicker 4s. I'm fine with him as our 4 in small ball line ups. It wouldn't stop me from continuing to look for an elite rim protector or better all around PF, so that's why you also find me disagreeing with you on how much to pay Harris. I still think how Henny handled him last summer was the right move.

[Bensational]

I take it back, you don't value harris low. Cousins and Iblocka is a nice return

quit sniping from the shadows and throw out some other suggestions then. where would you value him?

Ibaka isn't a superstar by any stretch of the imagination. you see how good OKC were this season without Durant and Westbrook? They were 4-11, which is worse than us. Ibaka is a glorified role player. He's certainly valuable to a team, but he's not the kind of difference maker you want as your 3rd option.

i don't know who said DMC but that's unrealistic unless the guy is demanding a trade.

but if someone suggested any less than that you're just gonna say we're undervaluing him. so you set the standard then. tell us what Tobias is worth?

Not sure what you expect when you want to trade Tobias for DMC and Ibaka.

I literally just told you what I expect (that you offer suggestions rather than cheap shots) and that I didn't suggest trading for DMC.

So now what I also expect is some reading comprehension.

Tobias doesn't have much value as most teams can go after him in the off-season. An extended Tobias is a different option entirely. What was the best return in any s&t?

For someone who likes to take pot shots, you don't really understand what you're talking about, do you? Tobias is an RFA, so any team trading for him has a near guarantee of extending him, as long as they're prepared to pay.

I also think he fits the team well next to Gordon as two hybrid forwards and shouldn't be traded or let go.

Problem with defensively challenged centers us that is hard to get the perfect fit next to them. Ibaka, Brow.... West and maybe Duncan. Our you go for someone with only defensive qualities.

Gordon, when he puts on some weight is a great fit at PF. So he'd struggle against a few guys, like Zbo. But very few teams have a guy that matches up well with everyone. We come back to AD and Ibaka.

This is a little more constructive.

The Gordon-Harris combo will need to be explored this season before we make any assumptions. I'm not a fan of turning AG into a PF at this point. He's got much more upside maximizing his athleticism and other skills and being capable of guarding 3 positions, rather than bulking and being limited to 1-2.

And then, yeah, we're back to looking for deals for guys like Ibaka and AD. Ibaka, though, isn't a difference maker on his own at this point.

[BadWolf]

Tobias is an Rfa. Many teams, Lakers and Knicks most importantly, maybe even Pistons, will be far under the salary cap, and can throw a big offer at Harris. If they're convinced Magic won't match, then they won't be prepared to give anything of value now. You can understand free agency any way you want, that's still true.

If Magic drafted Gordon as Harris replacement at SF, then that's just bad assett management. Why draft a player that might be or not better at the same position you have no need? When there was a glaring hole at pf with plenty of guys that could fill it in the draft.

If they wanted to trade Harris for value, they should do it before the season started. Now... Best you could do is another Jj for Tobes deal.

[tiderulz]

Our future SF has been injured all year and is playing behind a guy in a big contract year who loves to hog the ball.

so Harris is a ball hog? he shot 5 times the other night. And on a night when he does shoot badly, Dipo shoots even worse, but Dipo isnt a ball hog is he?

oh thats right, Orlando didnt draft Harris, so he sucks.

This has nothing to do with Dipo vs Harris or who ORL drafted vs traded for. I don't even think Harris sucks. You're grasping at air with your connections again. It's almost like you can't stand a single criticism against Harris. I don't really have a big issue with Harris' ball hogging. It seems to be periodic than constant and it stands out more when he is trying to shoot out of his slump and it's not working. The bigger problem with Harris is that his transition to SF has not been smooth defensively. He has struggled to be a good defender there. If he could, then he would be our Superstar...easy. He just isn't capable. I really did think SF would be his best position as a pro, but I'm starting to see that's probably not the case. It's the whole tweener effect. Too slow for the 3, too small for the 4.

However, I'm in the same boat as others who want to see Harris spending more time at PF with Gordon at SF. The wait is for JV to implement that rotation.

I need to know if what we saw in Harris in his first year here is still effective with our new roster. When he first got here we all loved him... I LOVED him... but he played a lot of PF back then. THAT'S what I want to see from him now. He averaged 1.4 blocks per game that season. Since the move to SF, that has gone down to .4 and .6 BPG. I know that's not the "tell all" sign for defense, but he did do a better job there than what he's doing now.

For all we know, maybe Harris is our magical 3-D guy we want at the 4 spot. He's not going to be an elite rim protector or a win a ton of individual defensive match ups against big PFs... so maybe not THAT magical, but he can defend quicker 4s and come up with some surprising blocks when he's in the post. I can see shades of a poor man's Ibaka. Scoring inside/out... rebounding... a lesser shot blocker, but similar when it comes to defending big PFs as they don't have the size to hold their ground or bang back... and conversely they can both keep up with smaller/quicker 4s. I'm fine with him as our 4 in small ball line ups. It wouldn't stop me from continuing to look for an elite rim protector or better all around PF, so that's why you also find me disagreeing with you on how much to pay Harris. I still think how Henny handled him last summer was the right move.

i just hate 1-sided criticism when we have other players on the team doing the exact same things, but we almost never hear criticism of them. And he has actually defended SF's at at least an average level. We also keep seeing guards blow us up, yet we dont hear criticism of Payton/Dipo and their defense. Yes, Elf is a good defender, but he also takes a lot of chances and gets burned an awful lot too. And I have yet to see this great defense from Dipo, all that we were hearing about him coming out of college was his defense, but i dont see a great defender out there from him

im also not opposed to moving him for a rim protecting PF, if there is one out there, if it helps the team.