Ryan Wolstat: If Valanciunas can

[ontnut]

You mean the one who single-handedly carried us to a 29-15 record thus far? ^

What does Lowry have to do with this?

Lowry is huge, of course. But on the flip side, what record did Lowry carry his team to in his 3 years Houston? Three 9th place finishes, and a 51% win record? Casey had a big part in his coming out party, so even though Lowry is probably the biggest reason for our success, you have to give Casey part of that credit too, no?

[ontnut]

The biggest issue I have with this team is that Casey and Masai both talk about how this is a developing team and that the focus is on the future. At the same time, they choose to limit the true learning opportunities in favour of getting wins. I think it is a half-hearted approach to player development especially when we have a historically poor division which removes the need to win absolutely every game.

Do we need Amir Johnson to play most of the fourth quarter to secure a win against a bottom feeder when we are 10 games up on Brooklyn? Especially when Johnson was a gametime decision to begin with and JV was having an impressive game.

The positive was that Ross got an opportunity to play in the fourth, which shows some willingness to play through the tough parts. JV also had some run in the fourth against Philly but they will need to build up his minutes. He has been playing much better over January both on defense and offense.

Casey has a tough love approach I guess. We should be more like Milwaukee who is playing their young guys in crunch-time situations so that they can experience it and hopefully gain some confidence.

It does annoy me sometimes when I hear so much about development and evaluation, but we don't see JV that much in crunch time. It makes it seem like Casey is running a meritocracy. BUT simultaneously, I think it's unfair to blame him for not playing JV in the 4th, meaning he's not developing him, when he's given a starting spot to Ross, undeseverdly so, for so long. From what I can see, Casey is doing his best to win and trying to put his players in positions where they are most needed, and where they can work on their game in the early quarters. Once they show they are consistent enough to be trusted to play each possession 100% properly, then I'm sure we'll see both Ross and JV more in the 4th. So far, neither has really shown enough consistency for me to want to play them outright in the 4th. Especially during the playoffs when each possession matters, a quick ticky tack foul from JV, or a soft contact-avoiding floater from Ross is not what we want either. A lot of this is in the players hands. If JV was a 22 year old Hakeem, I bet you Casey would play him in the 4th.

[Tacoma]

He also didn't trust Lowry and had his hand forced to play him. Just because you question certain aspects of the coaching, it doesn't mean you want the coach fired or don't like everything he is doing. You can give a guy credit and talk about areas for growth.

This, people forget how badly he wanted to play Jose who was clearly an inferior player over Lowry and eventually started him. Casey isn't perfect but there's a fine line between wanting him fired and wanting him to make adjustments for the betterment of the team, not saying this is directly related to Jonas but I'm sick of reading arguments between groups of people who represent two extremes.

It's not just "certain aspect" of Casey's coaching, it's many aspects.

Benching certain young players in the 4th despite good games, relying on some vets "come hell or high water," letting players freewheel (e.g., giving ball to Lowry or Lou) and holding some players accountable but not others, etc., is hallmark Casey. Recent complaints are nothing new, it's been simmering for a long time and now beginning to overflow.

Casey is not going to change. He's not going to adjust as you hope. He's easily predictable. If your expectations are for Casey to "make adjustments," it's simply not going to happen. Therefore the pragmatic choices are to either accept Casey as he is or find a new coach without these issues or at least one who is more apt to adjust.

[elmer_yuck]

I don't think we'll lose anything by playing JV in the 4th.
I think we'll do better.

[mcgrady_1]

I think thats the point here though. There is no Bargs or Jose here. We have one of the better back courts in the league and a good supporting staff. We have a more talented roster that is winning because we are better than most teams, not because of coaching.

Put Budenholzer on this team and it would be significantly different in a good way. I bet no head coach except for the really dumb ones like Byron Scott would run this team like Casey.

Are you saying the Hawks have a 37-8 record because of Budenholzer and that no average coach could've done that? Do you really think we would have a 37-8 record if we had Budenholzer coaching us? Or maybe, it's possibly because the Hawks also have a very talented roster that is winning because they are better than most teams, not just because of coaching? They are arguably better than us at every single starting position, and their bench is very good, but no - it must be all Budenholzer

Look at the list of head coaches, and tell us, who are the really dumb ones, and who are the ones who would run this team objectively better than Casey. I bet you the ones you say who can run it objectively better than Casey, are also the top 5-10 coaches in the league, the type of coach that you can't just sign up after you fire your own.

Here I'll do it for you.

Definitely better based on career success or prior coaching history or current team performance:
Budenholzer (rookie head coach, possibly a product of his team)
Thibs
Carlisle
SVG (if he stayed retired, that's one less coach up here)
Mchale
Rivers
Joerger
Popovich


Not clearly better, based on team construction, team performance, career success:
Stevens
Hollins
Clifford
Blatt
Shaw
Kerr (rookie coach, GSW success mostly due to the quality of their players)
Vogel (Everyone was riding him, but look at Indy. They lost George and Lance, but to go from 1st to a 16-30 record?)
Scott
Spoelstra
Kidd
Saunders
Williams
Fisher
Brooks
Vaughn
Brown
Hornacek (maybe better)
Stotts
Corbin
Snyder
Wittman

And here's the thing. A lot of the coaches in the "definitely better" category are there partly because of team performance. Spoelstra was a unanimous top 5 coach the past few years for coaching the Heat. Now, minus Lebron, but still with Bosh, Wade, Deng etc., they have a 20-24 record. Is he still a top 5 coach that would immediately make our team better?

Given this, it's not too hard to argue that Casey is candidate to be a top 10-15 coach in this league. That's average to above average. If you're willing to part with 2 1st pics to get a Doc Rivers, then by all means...go for it. But it's not like these top level coaches are just growing on trees.

Bang your head all you want. Casey is a below average coach in all aspects of the game. He's slow, predictable and doesnt get the best out of his team. I'm not saying he can't improve but this team does not have the time to wait for Casey to catch up. He is at the bottom of the league with Scott, Corbin & Fisher.

I did not say we would have the same record as ATL but we would be a significantly better team through and through. And If Casey had the arguably better at every position ATL team, they would be worse off by a mile.

Open your eyes bro. He's not the coach this team needs.

[Hue Durant]

I think thats the point here though. There is no Bargs or Jose here. We have one of the better back courts in the league and a good supporting staff. We have a more talented roster that is winning because we are better than most teams, not because of coaching.

Put Budenholzer on this team and it would be significantly different in a good way. I bet no head coach except for the really dumb ones like Byron Scott would run this team like Casey.

Are you saying the Hawks have a 37-8 record because of Budenholzer and that no average coach could've done that? Do you really think we would have a 37-8 record if we had Budenholzer coaching us? Or maybe, it's possibly because the Hawks also have a very talented roster that is winning because they are better than most teams, not just because of coaching? They are arguably better than us at every single starting position, and their bench is very good, but no - it must be all Budenholzer

Look at the list of head coaches, and tell us, who are the really dumb ones, and who are the ones who would run this team objectively better than Casey. I bet you the ones you say who can run it objectively better than Casey, are also the top 5-10 coaches in the league, the type of coach that you can't just sign up after you fire your own.

Here I'll do it for you.

Definitely better based on career success or prior coaching history or current team performance:
Budenholzer (rookie head coach, possibly a product of his team)
Thibs
Carlisle
SVG (if he stayed retired, that's one less coach up here)
Mchale
Rivers
Joerger
Popovich


Not clearly better, based on team construction, team performance, career success:
Stevens
Hollins
Clifford
Blatt
Shaw
Kerr (rookie coach, GSW success mostly due to the quality of their players)
Vogel (Everyone was riding him, but look at Indy. They lost George and Lance, but to go from 1st to a 16-30 record?)
Scott
Spoelstra
Kidd
Saunders
Williams
Fisher
Brooks
Vaughn
Brown
Hornacek (maybe better)
Stotts
Corbin
Snyder
Wittman

And here's the thing. A lot of the coaches in the "definitely better" category are there partly because of team performance. Spoelstra was a unanimous top 5 coach the past few years for coaching the Heat. Now, minus Lebron, but still with Bosh, Wade, Deng etc., they have a 20-24 record. Is he still a top 5 coach that would immediately make our team better?

Given this, it's not too hard to argue that Casey is candidate to be a top 10-15 coach in this league. That's average to above average. If you're willing to part with 2 1st pics to get a Doc Rivers, then by all means...go for it. But it's not like these top level coaches are just growing on trees.

Bang your head all you want. Casey is a below average coach in all aspects of the game. He's slow, predictable and doesnt get the best out of his team. I'm not saying he can't improve but this team does not have the time to wait for Casey to catch up. He is at the bottom of the league with Scott, Corbin & Fisher.

I did not say we would have the same record as ATL but we would be a significantly better team through and through. And If Casey had the arguably better at every position ATL team, they would be worse off by a mile.

Open your eyes bro. He's not the coach this team needs.

The casey revolt is gaining traction

[GooniesNeverDie]

JVs been playing much better as of late and vs. detroit was the perfect chance to give JV the opportunity to prove himself in the 4th. Sometimes you need to shorten the leash to see how the player responds.

[Undefeated]

Not clearly better, based on team construction, team performance, career success:
Stevens
Hollins
Clifford
Blatt
Shaw
Kerr (rookie coach, GSW success mostly due to the quality of their players)
Vogel (Everyone was riding him, but look at Indy. They lost George and Lance, but to go from 1st to a 16-30 record?)
Scott
Spoelstra
Kidd
Saunders
Williams
Fisher
Brooks
Vaughn
Brown
Hornacek (maybe better)
Stotts
Corbin
Snyder
Wittman

In terms of X's and O's, Spo, Stotts, and Kerr are all better than Casey.

Kerr did benefit by inheriting great roster, but his ability to tweak the offense running a more motion based offense adding sets from the Triangle and etc has made the Warriors offense nearly unstoppable. They're the only team along with the Hawks that mirrors what the Spurs run.

[DG88]

RR has made an entry on the JV 4th quarter minutes issue.

I brings up all the the for and against arguments in playing him in the 4th quarter

For: Valanciunas is a strong rebounder
This should come as a surprise to no one, but the Raptors are susceptible to offensive rebounds when Valanciunas sits. Both Patterson and Johnson are undersized to effectively battle centers, and Patterson especially tends to get carried out to the perimeter executing aggressive traps. The result is that the Raptors allow the 2nd-highest proportion of offensive rebounds in the clutch at a whooping 32.9 percent.

Valanciunas helps significantly in that regard. He’s the team’s best rebounder by leaps and bounds (unless you want to count the 20 minutes in which Bebe Nogueira has played). Valanciunas is particularly adept at grabbing defensive rebounds. He snags 26 percent of available defensive rebounds, which is easily bests Patterson (16.9 percent) and Johnson (15.2 percent). Valanciunas even tops Pelicans superstar Anthony Davis (24.6 percent).

Against: Valanciunas is a poor help defender
Casey prefers his bigs to be smart, mobile and reliable defensively, none of which particularly suits Valanciunas. Defense is the hardest skill to develop, especially when it comes to 22-year-old centers, but it’s become a problem with Valanciunas in particular.

According to 82games.com, the Raptors are 6.3 points per 100 possessions better with Valanciunas on the bench, which simply cannot be ignored. Now, the Raptors defense has been pretty terrible regardless of lineup construction, but playing Patterson (+1.1) or Amir Johnson (-2.2) is far more palatable than Valanciunas’ slow-footed help defense.

Valanciunas is fine as a rim protector in post-up scenarios, but he’s somewhat clueless when it comes to help schemes. He’s far too slow to hedge, or to step outside to the perimeter, so his value only comes in staying at home in the paint. However, teams have begun to exploit his weakness by seeking him out on pick-and-rolls, especially if Valanciunas is guarding a jumpshooting big. And even if he is at home, there’s no guarantee that he’s able to rotate in time.

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/01/ ... unch-time/

[Hackett]

I think Casey is doing the right thing. He played for the win. Val will get his burn when he gets better defensively, it doesn't all have to happen in one giant leap. Bball knowledge is low in this one and the controversy is high.


It's easy to check realgm for a controversy and write an article that has legs on the internet.

[HiMyNameIsTrey]

Casey needs to be fired yesterday.

[Hackett]

Why because wolstat know little about basketball and does not see how badly val performs in the 4th quarter? Hacks write these sorts of pieces.

The stats back Casey up. Let the coaches do their jobs, and ambulance chasers do theirs.

[2pat]

Jonas isn't a rookie and he needs the experience of playing in crunch time. When the guards go cold in the playoffs, he might be the only one keeping us in games.

[Inevitable]

Val's going to leave in FA as soon as he can if this keeps up and I don't blame him. Even when he is playing like an elite big man he gets treated like he is Bruno.

[Hackett]

JV is getting plenty of time to develop his stamina and acumen. Every once in a while CAsey leaves him out for the 4th and further direction is resolved by how he handles those minutes. From where I sat, Casey played the 4th quarter perfectly, and SVG was getting more and more irate as the game closed. We need wins for confidence now more than we need to push things with JV.

There is nothing to be angry about here, other than the fact that Wolstat is trying to hack an article out of Jv's 4th quarter struggles. Coaching is handling the situation just fine.

[team edward]

In short, Amir is better in the 4th than Val on Val's best day, and Patterson can shoot the three. The end.

[DG88]

Val's going to leave in FA as soon as he can if this keeps up and I don't blame him. Even when he is playing like an elite big man he gets treated like he is Bruno.

Sorry but JV is not playing like an "elite" big man. If he were elite he'd be sound defensively and a force on offense. He'd be able to make proper rotations and reads. In the post he'd be patience and be able to survey and find his teammates if he got double teamed instead of turning it over.

JV still has a ways to go in his development. He's just not there yet and we'll have to be patient on him. I don't understand why some here think he's already elite when he's no where close.

[Steelo Green]

Val's going to leave in FA as soon as he can if this keeps up and I don't blame him. Even when he is playing like an elite big man he gets treated like he is Bruno.

Sorry but JV is not playing like an "elite" big man. If he were elite he'd be sound defensively and a force on offense. He'd be able to make proper rotations and reads. In the post he'd be patience and be able to survey and find his teammates if he got double teamed instead of turning it over.

JV still has a ways to go in his development. He's just not there yet and we'll have to be patient on him. I don't understand why some here think he's already elite when he's no where close.

Welcome to RealGM, where hyperbole's reign free and logic dictates nothing.

[RealRapsFan]

Val's going to leave in FA as soon as he can if this keeps up and I don't blame him. Even when he is playing like an elite big man he gets treated like he is Bruno.

Sorry but JV is not playing like an "elite" big man. If he were elite he'd be sound defensively and a force on offense. He'd be able to make proper rotations and reads. In the post he'd be patience and be able to survey and find his teammates if he got double teamed instead of turning it over.

JV still has a ways to go in his development. He's just not there yet and we'll have to be patient on him. I don't understand why some here think he's already elite when he's no where close.

I don't think inevitable is saying JV IS an elite big man, but rather WHEN he is playing like an elite big man (ie. favorable match up) he's still ends up on the pine.

Crazy stat of the day.... since Demar's return (7 games), JV = best drtg on the team. Minutes down 10% from season average over that time as well......

We sure its only defense thats an issue?

[timdunkit]

In general, I don't have a problem with benching JV in the fourth quarter in a regular game. Patterson/Amir are more mobile and quick and allow us to play good defense.

But he had 20/11 heading into the 4th quarter. It's the type of game where he's earned the right to play the 4th quarter and should have been rewarded for it. These are the type of games you want to reward him. Casey should have sat him out to start the 4th quarter (he was clearly tired and may have factored into him picking up 2 fouls) and brought him back in between 8-4 minute mark and gauged his play.

People can talk about Detroit's strategy of having Monroe with floor spacers but with the way JV was playing, we should have forced Detroit to play big and play Drummond/Monroe together.

Also, the team was playing much more efficiently offensively/defensively in that game with JV on the floor then Patterson. Take what you will about comparing in game effiency but JV was a +23 (ORTG-DRTG diffenential, also had a 109 DRTG, which was second best in the game to Lou WIlliams on the team) compared to Pattersons -21.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 50TOR.html