Ryan Wolstat: If Valanciunas can

[FirstInkTDot]

Not every coach makes impact, Casey has a good relationship with the team. If you fire him mid-season and hire someone else, what makes you think this team would get hot? People on RealGM think this is some virtual reality when you can hire another coach midseason and the team is going to be way better. Lowry had issues with his previous coaches, he's fine with Casey, what makes you think he'll like the next guy coming in mid season? People on this board automatically jumps to stats but never think about the relationships. I'm no Casey homer, I do question his tactics like putting Vasquez in against the Pelicans or benching JV. But it'd be stupid to fire Casey at this point of the season.

[TheDoctor]

timdunkit, what if we put JV back in there and Detroit stays small (which they do for most of every game, they really don't put up great numbers with both their bigs on the floor, especially against us), and Amir has to run around after Tolliver or Jerebko, while JV continues to foul Munroe. They'd happily hit 3s against us.

Amir and JV both stepped up. Amir plays Munroe better, and is more useful when they're trying to set up a lot of 3s. If Amir was having a bad game, or didn't make big plays for us down the stretch, then I can see there being more to this.

The one spot where I think you might have brought JV in was when Detroit's run carried over from the end of Hayes' minutes through the beginning of Amir coming back in. But he didn't and then Amir made the big plays after that.

I love JV and normally would have wanted him to come back in, but honestly in this game I think it made sense with how things played out. We comfortably kept our lead until the bad Kyle sequence in the last minute, which had nothing to do with big men on the floor (and by then we probably would have subbed out JV for mobility to prevent 3s anyway).

[knickerbocker2k2]

JV is pretty much guaranteed to get ~30min per game yet people are on Casey's case like he is benching the next coming of Shaq/Hakeem. JV is getting lots of touches and PT to develop and if he doesn't make the next leap that is on him.

This is not team like 76ers who don't care about wins. When you are 2nd in your conference, a coach would be crazy to put a lineup at the end that he believes is not the best. The issues with JV is mostly on the defensive end. He can gain the trust and confidence of coaching staff by playing well the 24min he gets in q1/q3.

[Death Knight]

JV is pretty much guaranteed to get ~30min per game yet people are on Casey's case like he is benching the next coming of Shaq/Hakeem. JV is getting lots of touches and PT to develop and if he doesn't make the next leap that is on him.

This is not team like 76ers who don't care about wins. When you are 2nd in your conference, a coach would be crazy to put a lineup at the end that he believes is not the best. The issues with JV is mostly on the defensive end. He can gain the trust and confidence of coaching staff by playing well the 24min he gets in q1/q3.

JV ain't guaranteed 30min. What are you smoking? There's no one on the team that has fluctuating minutes like JV. He'll play anywhere from 10min to 30min. The only 2 players with guaranteed big minutes REGARDLESS of how well or bad they play are Lowry and DeRozan. JV's minutes have actually gone down from last season. At this point JV is being used as a plug in starter, not a true starter. True starters easily played 30+ mins every single game unless they get in foul trouble or the game becomes a blowout.

I continue to say, if this team ain't gonna use JV then just trade him. Trade him for player(s) that Casey will actually use. Just trade him. TRADEEEEEEEE him! Isn't his trade value projected to be higher than DeMar?

[kayliecee]

I dont hate Casey, I dont bash him, but I'm shocked Big Val didnt play at all in the 4th. I thought if there was a game to play him in the fourth/late in the fourth it was sunday vs the Pistons.

Why do people keep saying he didn't play in the fourth at all? Is it one of these things where if we repeat it often enough, it becomes a fact?

[Thespianoid]

I dont hate Casey, I dont bash him, but I'm shocked Big Val didnt play at all in the 4th. I thought if there was a game to play him in the fourth/late in the fourth it was sunday vs the Pistons.

Why do people keep saying he didn't play in the fourth at all? Is it one of these things where if we repeat it often enough, it becomes a fact?

Yeah he played two possessions early in the 4th, which he picked up two quick fouls covering Monroe. So to some degree I can see why Casey went with Amir afterward.

Problem is, that was after playing the entire 3rd quarter. Anyone playing a full quarter of basketball without much rest is going to be gassed. To hold his performance after that against him (as I suppose the coaching staff did) is a little misleading in my opinion.

[barrist]

JV is pretty much guaranteed to get ~30min per game yet people are on Casey's case like he is benching the next coming of Shaq/Hakeem. JV is getting lots of touches and PT to develop and if he doesn't make the next leap that is on him.
.

If by "guaranteed", you mean less than a 1/3 of the time, sure!

[Death Knight]

When we talk about playing in the 4th, we're referencing finishing the game, playing at crunch time, etc...

Beginning of 4th lol. Don't be a joke people. Bench players come in to start the 4th. Does that mean anything? NO! What matters is who closes the game out in the last 5-6 mins. When you get to close out games, you know the team sees you as a top 5 player on the team.

[Thespianoid]

JV is pretty much guaranteed to get ~30min per game yet people are on Casey's case like he is benching the next coming of Shaq/Hakeem. JV is getting lots of touches and PT to develop and if he doesn't make the next leap that is on him.

This is not team like 76ers who don't care about wins. When you are 2nd in your conference, a coach would be crazy to put a lineup at the end that he believes is not the best. The issues with JV is mostly on the defensive end. He can gain the trust and confidence of coaching staff by playing well the 24min he gets in q1/q3.

I don't mind how JV is played depending on his performance. That's how it should be. But when that same standard doesn't always apply to other players, then people have issues with it. Which is what I think we're seeing here.

Perhaps it's a designated role thing, where JV is asked to perform defensively while others' roles don't carry that same expectation. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is how it is given JV and Casey's comments. I'd think this is where a change (role and defensive scheme) should be explored, as it's not quite fair to demand something from one player while completely overlooking it for another.

I understand it's a normal part of a team concept, but when others' lack of defense is equally a problem, and there are other problems of shot selection, maybe it might be necessary to focus some accountability there instead of only on JV.

[timdunkit]

timdunkit, what if we put JV back in there and Detroit stays small (which they do for most of every game, they really don't put up great numbers with both their bigs on the floor, especially against us), and Amir has to run around after Tolliver or Jerebko, while JV continues to foul Munroe. They'd happily hit 3s against us.

Amir and JV both stepped up. Amir plays Munroe better, and is more useful when they're trying to set up a lot of 3s. If Amir was having a bad game, or didn't make big plays for us down the stretch, then I can see there being more to this.

The one spot where I think you might have brought JV in was when Detroit's run carried over from the end of Hayes' minutes through the beginning of Amir coming back in. But he didn't and then Amir made the big plays after that.

I love JV and normally would have wanted him to come back in, but honestly in this game I think it made sense with how things played out. We comfortably kept our lead until the bad Kyle sequence in the last minute, which had nothing to do with big men on the floor (and by then we probably would have subbed out JV for mobility to prevent 3s anyway).

One thing you had an advantage off is the power of hindsight (since the game is over and we already know it worked out allright in the end).

My argument lies in the fact that you had your young prospect entering the 4th quarter with 20/11. The second best DRTG in the game on your team at that point & Detroit had no answer to on the offensive end. If there was a game to reward JV for playing his mind out, it was this game. It would have been pretty easy for Casey to rest JV til the 8th minute mark and see how things were.

Also, JV had 4 fouls the entire game. Up until the begining of the 4th quarter, he had 2 fouls. Seems to me he was doing just fine and that him being tired after playing 12 minutes straight in the 3rd may have played a big factor in him picking up 2 fouls.

I'm meh on the JV. I think we maybe better off trading him now because we could snatch a nice big men that could help propel us to the next level. Part of that could be showcasing Ross/JV to increase their value. At the sametime, if we are going to keep him, and are following the tough love method in developing, then JV should have been playing that specific 4th quarter against Detroit. Til the end of the third, he was the best big man for us overall.

The other games, it's pretty easy to see why JV gets benched in the 4th, this game, even I have to say that Casey messed this one up.

[IMAN5]

I remember when Bargnani was here Casey was forced to make it work and forced to use him. I wish someone would make him do the same with Val because Val at least has the work ethic, drive, and talent to be great.

[TheDoctor]

Still, JV got 2 fouls on the guy he'd be coming back in to guard... except if he came back in those would be FTs since thr Pistons were in the bonus.

Overall I'd like to see JV get more chances, I just think this one was more nuanced than the post headline makes it. If we'd struggled more, or with the kinds of things we'd want JV in there for, then I can see the issue. But our biggest issue in the 4th was fouling (and a bad Lowry shot and TO, which wouldn't likely have been any different with JV out there)... and JV was part of that particular problem.

We actually had our best defensive FG% and vs 3... in the 4th. They scored more because there were more possessions, with the odd TO and the clock stopping on fouls.

[Thespianoid]

Still, JV got 2 fouls on the guy he'd be coming back in to guard... except if he came back in those would be FTs since thr Pistons were in the bonus.

Overall I'd like to see JV get more chances, I just think this one was more nuanced than the post headline makes it. If we'd struggled more, or with the kinds of things we'd want JV in there for, then I can see the issue. But our biggest issue in the 4th was fouling (and a bad Lowry shot and TO, which wouldn't likely have been any different with JV out there)... and JV was part of that particular problem.

yes, but how much of the fouling was due to fatigue from playing the entire quarter beforehand? That's something that surely has to be considered.

[MainEvent]

the idiot who single handedly loses games (brooklyn series, pelicans, bobcats shotclock), says bargnani hell or high water, holds MVP Lowry back in favour of Jose and puts vasquez in for clutch D needs to get fired.

The Bobcats shot clock was the biggest fail. Bobcats get a rebound and a full 24 second shot clock, we are down 2 with 26 seconds left in the game and we let them dribble for 24 seconds and shoot, horn sounds as the rebound comes down... wtf?

[whysoserious]

JV ain't guaranteed 30min. What are you smoking? There's no one on the team that has fluctuating minutes like JV. He'll play anywhere from 10min to 30min. The only 2 players with guaranteed big minutes REGARDLESS of how well or bad they play are Lowry and DeRozan. JV's minutes have actually gone down from last season. At this point JV is being used as a plug in starter, not a true starter. True starters easily played 30+ mins every single game unless they get in foul trouble or the game becomes a blowout.

I continue to say, if this team ain't gonna use JV then just trade him. Trade him for player(s) that Casey will actually use. Just trade him. TRADEEEEEEEE him! Isn't his trade value projected to be higher than DeMar?

This is straight up BS. He's played under 20 minutes 4 games this season so far out 44 games. He's played over 25 minutes in 24 games and over 30 minutes 13 times.

He's pretty much guaranteed between 25-28 minutes on average.

This is not to say he doesn't deserve more minutes but let's not act like his minutes actually fluctuate that much.

[RealRapsFan]

Still, JV got 2 fouls on the guy he'd be coming back in to guard... except if he came back in those would be FTs since thr Pistons were in the bonus.

Overall I'd like to see JV get more chances, I just think this one was more nuanced than the post headline makes it. If we'd struggled more, or with the kinds of things we'd want JV in there for, then I can see the issue. But our biggest issue in the 4th was fouling (and a bad Lowry shot and TO, which wouldn't likely have been any different with JV out there)... and JV was part of that particular problem.

We actually had our best defensive FG% and vs 3... in the 4th. They scored more because there were more possessions, with the odd TO and the clock stopping on fouls.

its hard to gauge getting 2 fouls vs a particular player in a small moment in time, than coming to the conclusion therefore he'd foul more. That sample is so small, so prone to random chance its not really solid information for predicting.

Its also worth pointing out this isn't the first time this has happened. There have been numerous occasions where JV was on and as soon as a team goes small, the Raptors react.

I'm just not a fan of that approach. I think what this team should be doing is trying to force the opposition to match up with them, rather than reacting to the opposition. Opposition goes small? Why not go big and punish them in the paint for going small? Maybe they get a series of 3s because of it, but you just return the favor by eating up the clock and going down low where you have the advantage.

Like some others here I don't mind JV's minutes being a result of his play. He's not getting it done, let someone else try to get it done. But when he is, why not do the same.

[RealRapsFan]

double post

[whysoserious]

Still, JV got 2 fouls on the guy he'd be coming back in to guard... except if he came back in those would be FTs since thr Pistons were in the bonus.

Overall I'd like to see JV get more chances, I just think this one was more nuanced than the post headline makes it. If we'd struggled more, or with the kinds of things we'd want JV in there for, then I can see the issue. But our biggest issue in the 4th was fouling (and a bad Lowry shot and TO, which wouldn't likely have been any different with JV out there)... and JV was part of that particular problem.

yes, but how much of the fouling was due to fatigue from playing the entire quarter beforehand? That's something that surely has to be considered.

I'm sure those fouls were partially due to fatigue. Then again, if he pulls him while playing so well in the third I'm sure there'd be many ripping Casey for taking JV out while he's hot. With some (and not you) it's a matter of everything Casey does negatively gets magnified a million times over and any positive is attributed to anything but Casey.

[tdotboyy]

When bargnani went 1-19 while Speshal Ed was having the game of his life both offensively and defensively, casey decided to stick with bargnani COME HELL OR HIGH WATER.. DeMar goes 0-9 and gets benched in the last 5 mins of the 4th. Casey is clueless

[Inevitable]

Val's going to leave in FA as soon as he can if this keeps up and I don't blame him. Even when he is playing like an elite big man he gets treated like he is Bruno.

Sorry but JV is not playing like an "elite" big man. If he were elite he'd be sound defensively and a force on offense. He'd be able to make proper rotations and reads. In the post he'd be patience and be able to survey and find his teammates if he got double teamed instead of turning it over.

JV still has a ways to go in his development. He's just not there yet and we'll have to be patient on him. I don't understand why some here think he's already elite when he's no where close.

20/10 on offense and second best DRTG going to the 4th, your post is irrelevant to the game at hand.