Ryan Wolstat: If Valanciunas can

[Korr]

Casey doesn't trust him in the 4th. However you feel, he's coaching the team and there's nothing else to discuss.

I too think Casey isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, and a smarter coach would give his young developing big more burn in the 4th. But this topic has been beaten to death, and he's not changing his approach anytime soon.

[Raps in 4]

JV is pretty much guaranteed to get ~30min per game

No he's not. He's averaging 26 MPG.

This is not team like 76ers who don't care about wins.

JV contributes to wins. He's our most efficient scorer.

He can gain the trust and confidence of coaching staff by playing well the 24min he gets in q1/q3.

That tactic doesn't seem to work with Casey. JV was by far our best offensive and defensive player against Detroit and yet still got benched in the fourth.

[Death Knight]

JV ain't guaranteed 30min. What are you smoking? There's no one on the team that has fluctuating minutes like JV. He'll play anywhere from 10min to 30min. The only 2 players with guaranteed big minutes REGARDLESS of how well or bad they play are Lowry and DeRozan. JV's minutes have actually gone down from last season. At this point JV is being used as a plug in starter, not a true starter. True starters easily played 30+ mins every single game unless they get in foul trouble or the game becomes a blowout.

I continue to say, if this team ain't gonna use JV then just trade him. Trade him for player(s) that Casey will actually use. Just trade him. TRADEEEEEEEE him! Isn't his trade value projected to be higher than DeMar?

This is straight up BS. He's played under 20 minutes 4 games this season so far out 44 games. He's played over 25 minutes in 24 games and over 30 minutes 13 times.

He's pretty much guaranteed between 25-28 minutes on average.

This is not to say he doesn't deserve more minutes but let's not act like his minutes actually fluctuate that much.

13 games over 30min.....ooh la la. What happen to the other 31 games? His minutes have gone down from last season, FACT! 24 games over 25min, That's half the time he plays in the low 20s with only 13 games over 30. That's pretty damn inconsistent minutes right there.

Casey ain't gonna make use of his 7 footers, then trade them. Trade JV. Trade Steimsma. Trade James Johnson too. When playoff comes, don't be crying for size alright? You like your chucking tweeners. You like your undersized bigs. Good luck.

[knickerbocker2k2]

For the last month or so JV pretty much plays most if not all the 1st/3rd quarters. He also gets minutes in 2nd quarter to close out half. Barring foul trouble that is 25 guaranteed minutes. If he is having good game he gets another 2-3min even without clutch minutes.

As others pointed out his man against Pistons was Drummond. He was also having good game with 16/11. Given SVG went small, JV would have had to cover Monroe. He struggled against him as he picked fouls + couple baskets earlier in the game.

Remember 4th quarter come back Pistons just less than month ago? Casey stayed big even when SVG went small and we couldn't get stops and lost. Suns also went small in the epic 4th quarter comeback and when staying big with JV was not turning the tide he went small with success.

[dacrusha]

RR has made an entry on the JV 4th quarter minutes issue.

Against: Valanciunas is a poor help defender
Casey prefers his bigs to be smart, mobile and reliable defensively, none of which particularly suits Valanciunas. Defense is the hardest skill to develop, especially when it comes to 22-year-old centers, but it’s become a problem with Valanciunas in particular.

According to 82games.com, the Raptors are 6.3 points per 100 possessions better with Valanciunas on the bench, which simply cannot be ignored. Now, the Raptors defense has been pretty terrible regardless of lineup construction, but playing Patterson (+1.1) or Amir Johnson (-2.2) is far more palatable than Valanciunas’ slow-footed help defense.

Valanciunas is fine as a rim protector in post-up scenarios, but he’s somewhat clueless when it comes to help schemes. He’s far too slow to hedge, or to step outside to the perimeter, so his value only comes in staying at home in the paint. However, teams have begun to exploit his weakness by seeking him out on pick-and-rolls, especially if Valanciunas is guarding a jumpshooting big. And even if he is at home, there’s no guarantee that he’s able to rotate in time.

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2015/01/ ... unch-time/

Wow, this sounds like Bargs MO on defense.

Difference is, JV is only 22 and he has plenty of time and, seemingly, the aptitude to learn the nuances of help defense.

[DG88]

Val's going to leave in FA as soon as he can if this keeps up and I don't blame him. Even when he is playing like an elite big man he gets treated like he is Bruno.

Sorry but JV is not playing like an "elite" big man. If he were elite he'd be sound defensively and a force on offense. He'd be able to make proper rotations and reads. In the post he'd be patience and be able to survey and find his teammates if he got double teamed instead of turning it over.

JV still has a ways to go in his development. He's just not there yet and we'll have to be patient on him. I don't understand why some here think he's already elite when he's no where close.

20/10 on offense and second best DRTG going to the 4th, your post is irrelevant to the game at hand.

I'm talking in general Jonas is not playing like an elite big man. He's good a ways to go before he'd be considered elite. A good big man? Ya I can agree with that.

[Death Knight]

Sorry but JV is not playing like an "elite" big man. If he were elite he'd be sound defensively and a force on offense. He'd be able to make proper rotations and reads. In the post he'd be patience and be able to survey and find his teammates if he got double teamed instead of turning it over.

JV still has a ways to go in his development. He's just not there yet and we'll have to be patient on him. I don't understand why some here think he's already elite when he's no where close.

20/10 on offense and second best DRTG going to the 4th, your post is irrelevant to the game at hand.

I'm talking in general Jonas is not playing like an elite big man. He's good a ways to go before he'd be considered elite. A good big man? Ya I can agree with that.

He's the only big we have! Is Steimsma even on the team anymore? You wonder why Amir has broken down so fast. Always forced to guard guys much bigger than him. Keep going down that path.

[UnderdogRaptors]

Hope we extend him again

[whysoserious]

13 games over 30min.....ooh la la. What happen to the other 31 games? His minutes have gone down from last season, FACT! 24 games over 25min, That's half the time he plays in the low 20s with only 13 games over 30. That's pretty damn inconsistent minutes right there.

Casey ain't gonna make use of his 7 footers, then trade them. Trade JV. Trade Steimsma. Trade James Johnson too. When playoff comes, don't be crying for size alright? You like your chucking tweeners. You like your undersized bigs. Good luck.

I'm not the one that said his minutes fluctuate the most and that it's between 10-30 minutes.

He's mostly between 25-28 minutes. He's only had 4 games under 20 minutes so not sure where you get this huge fluctuation in minutes which is what I called you out on.

His average is down overall compared to what he finished last season by a whole 2 minutes and theres still 30+ games left to go.

I never said I preferred chucking tweeners or anything, you're taking this argument all over the place and making up stuff. Why trade these guys? It's like it's one extreme or the other with some of you. If he's not playing trade him. JV is valuable now and long-term and he's developing at a solid pace.

I've stated many times that he should get some more minutes but you're the one claiming his minutes are all over the place when in fact that just isn't true.

[knickerbocker2k2]

I'm talking in general Jonas is not playing like an elite big man. He's good a ways to go before he'd be considered elite. A good big man? Ya I can agree with that.

This is the fundamental problem that JV's fail to understand. He is putting great 36per numbers but he is far from elite big man. He is good rotational big at this point. He is not going to get 35min per game like established bigs like Gasol/Bosh.

Casey should be getting credit instead of hate re JV. He is putting him in good situation to succeed. At this point JV main strengths are finishing in the paint and his touch around basket. He is also great offensive rebounder. We occasional post him up with success but he is not consistent in his moves or getting post position so it is not a go to move yet.

So when Casey says he should focus on his defense and rebounding + energy he is avoiding things that would harm the team and his offensive statistics. How many great looks does he get because DD/Lowry get the attention of defenses? If we were to force feed like people are suggesting his efficiency would dramatically fall off.

[djsunyc]

all we can hope for is Casey adjusting some off his strategies as the season continues or jonas dominates like shaq so Casey can't take him out.

[Death Knight]

13 games over 30min.....ooh la la. What happen to the other 31 games? His minutes have gone down from last season, FACT! 24 games over 25min, That's half the time he plays in the low 20s with only 13 games over 30. That's pretty damn inconsistent minutes right there.

Casey ain't gonna make use of his 7 footers, then trade them. Trade JV. Trade Steimsma. Trade James Johnson too. When playoff comes, don't be crying for size alright? You like your chucking tweeners. You like your undersized bigs. Good luck.

I'm not the one that said his minutes fluctuate the most and that it's between 10-30 minutes.

He's mostly between 25-28 minutes. He's only had 4 games under 20 minutes so not sure where you get this huge fluctuation in minutes which is what I called you out on.

His average is down overall compared to what he finished last season by a whole 2 minutes and theres still 30+ games left to go.

I never said I preferred chucking tweeners or anything, you're taking this argument all over the place and making up stuff. Why trade these guys? It's like it's one extreme or the other with some of you. If he's not playing trade him. JV is valuable now and long-term and he's developing at a solid pace.

I've stated many times that he should get some more minutes but you're the one claiming his minutes are all over the place when in fact that just isn't true.

There's 30+ games left, but Casey has given 0 indications that JV's minutes are going to increase.

If this league is still guard driven, then why not trade JV? Who needs a freakin 7 foot C anyways? The coach doesn't use em. Throw em away! Garbage!

[blitz41]

Masai probably won't make any changes in regards to Val or Casey until the offseason, and rightly so, anything quicker than that isnt actually giving you time to evaluate the team. Especially since we havent gotten to actual measuring stick yet (playoff performance).

That being said, if this current trend continues its course over the rest of the season and playoffs, we will see either:

1) Coaching strategy change: Coaching staff+Front Office collaborate over the off-season to create and modify the defence in order to integrate JV and his skillset more effectively

2) Coaching Change: Remove casey and bring in a coach that (hopefully) can get more out of all our positions and players defensively/offensively

3) Player Change: Deal val for someone that can play the defensive scheme demanded from the C position.

If trends continue, #1 would be my preferred option. Im not willing to give up on casey or val yet.

Finally (and im hoping some people on here more knowledgeable and expert can comment on this) would applying a more hibbert-esque role along with an organic IQ growth from val be the best solution to his defensive problem?

As i understand it, the pacers hedge hard with all matchups but hibberts and have him sag instead (which stats indicate val does), would this be what we are looking for?

Finally would adding elite rebounding to the 3 spot help val to commit more to playing away from the basket? Maybe its just the eye test but teams with big-men who tend to hedge,trap or play aggressive help defence have had excellent rebounding from the 3 spot as well, is what im seeing generally true?

[DG88]

I'm talking in general Jonas is not playing like an elite big man. He's good a ways to go before he'd be considered elite. A good big man? Ya I can agree with that.

He's the only big we have! Is Steimsma even on the team anymore? You wonder why Amir has broken down so fast. Always forced to guard guys much bigger than him. Keep going down that path.

Now you're all over the place. What my post have anything to with what you just typed? Seriously you're unbearable sometimes.

[Jstock12]

13 games over 30min.....ooh la la. What happen to the other 31 games? His minutes have gone down from last season, FACT! 24 games over 25min, That's half the time he plays in the low 20s with only 13 games over 30. That's pretty damn inconsistent minutes right there.

Casey ain't gonna make use of his 7 footers, then trade them. Trade JV. Trade Steimsma. Trade James Johnson too. When playoff comes, don't be crying for size alright? You like your chucking tweeners. You like your undersized bigs. Good luck.

I'm not the one that said his minutes fluctuate the most and that it's between 10-30 minutes.

He's mostly between 25-28 minutes. He's only had 4 games under 20 minutes so not sure where you get this huge fluctuation in minutes which is what I called you out on.

His average is down overall compared to what he finished last season by a whole 2 minutes and theres still 30+ games left to go.

I never said I preferred chucking tweeners or anything, you're taking this argument all over the place and making up stuff. Why trade these guys? It's like it's one extreme or the other with some of you. If he's not playing trade him. JV is valuable now and long-term and he's developing at a solid pace.

I've stated many times that he should get some more minutes but you're the one claiming his minutes are all over the place when in fact that just isn't true.

There's 30+ games left, but Casey has given 0 indications that JV's minutes are going to increase.

If this league is still guard driven, then why not trade JV? Who needs a freakin 7 foot C anyways? The coach doesn't use em. Throw em away! Garbage!

If we are really in a win-now mode, why not go All-In and trade JV for some defensive C who can rebound and isn't a liability in 4th quarters. Who knows, you might also get another valuable piece in return if JV is valued enough by other teams around the league. That way Raptors could really maximize this season and hope to get into ECF. Then get swept in the Finals anyway.

Hibbert anyone?
Asik?
Jordan?

[Thespianoid]

I'm talking in general Jonas is not playing like an elite big man. He's good a ways to go before he'd be considered elite. A good big man? Ya I can agree with that.

This is the fundamental problem that JV's [fans] fail to understand... If we were to force feed like people are suggesting his efficiency would dramatically fall off.

I wouldn't recommend generalizing all JV supporters into one category. Weakens the point.

Also, I don't think anyone wants to force feed him. That hasn't been mentioned in a general sense in a very long time.

[whysoserious]

If we are really in a win-now mode, why not go All-In and trade JV for some rebounding defensive C who can rebound and isn't a liability in 4th quarters. Who knows, you might also get another valuable piece in return if JV is valued enough by other teams around the league. That way Raptors could really maximize this season and hope to get into ECF. Then get swept in the Finals anyway.

The thing is we're not in win-now mode to an extent. People assume that on the basis of the hot start but Masai still has a long-term plan. Right now we're competitive and that's good to hold on while we develop these guys. All our guys in their prime are good enough to keep us at this level and when some of these younger guys come along hopefully they take us up another level and we still a ton of assets to keep adding.

Getting to the ECF one year is not the goal and making a rash decision now with the hopes of securing that one appearance is not Masai or the teams goal. It's long-term sustained success and winning a title.

[djsunyc]

If we are really in a win-now mode, why not go All-In and trade JV for some rebounding defensive C who can rebound and isn't a liability in 4th quarters. Who knows, you might also get another valuable piece in return if JV is valued enough by other teams around the league. That way Raptors could really maximize this season and hope to get into ECF. Then get swept in the Finals anyway.

i think the person to replace is amir or 2pat since jv doesn't play the 4th anyway. right now casey uses him as a in between scorer but not one to close it out. that is still valuable. but if he sits the 4th, then we need to upgrade the big that does play the 4th.

[Jstock12]

If we are really in a win-now mode, why not go All-In and trade JV for some rebounding defensive C who can rebound and isn't a liability in 4th quarters. Who knows, you might also get another valuable piece in return if JV is valued enough by other teams around the league. That way Raptors could really maximize this season and hope to get into ECF. Then get swept in the Finals anyway.

i think the person to replace is amir or 2pat since jv doesn't play the 4th anyway. right now casey uses him as a in between scorer but not one to close it out. that is still valuable. but if he sits the 4th, then we need to upgrade the big that does play the 4th.

While that may be true, I don't think that Amir or 2Pat are nearly as valuable as JV (mainly because of the size and upside). So you probably won't get too much in return.

[Death Knight]

I'm not the one that said his minutes fluctuate the most and that it's between 10-30 minutes.

He's mostly between 25-28 minutes. He's only had 4 games under 20 minutes so not sure where you get this huge fluctuation in minutes which is what I called you out on.

His average is down overall compared to what he finished last season by a whole 2 minutes and theres still 30+ games left to go.

I never said I preferred chucking tweeners or anything, you're taking this argument all over the place and making up stuff. Why trade these guys? It's like it's one extreme or the other with some of you. If he's not playing trade him. JV is valuable now and long-term and he's developing at a solid pace.

I've stated many times that he should get some more minutes but you're the one claiming his minutes are all over the place when in fact that just isn't true.

There's 30+ games left, but Casey has given 0 indications that JV's minutes are going to increase.

If this league is still guard driven, then why not trade JV? Who needs a freakin 7 foot C anyways? The coach doesn't use em. Throw em away! Garbage!

If we are really in a win-now mode, why not go All-In and trade JV for some defensive C who can rebound and isn't a liability in 4th quarters. Who knows, you might also get another valuable piece in return if JV is valued enough by other teams around the league. That way Raptors could really maximize this season and hope to get into ECF. Then get swept in the Finals anyway.

Hibbert anyone?
Asik?

Problem with bringing in a defensive C is there's no guarantee that Casey will use him. Amir will still be getting the nod over every other big on the team. The line up that we use to finish most games up to this point, Amir iiissssssssssssssssssss supposed to be that defensive C.