Official Trade Thread: The Block Is Hot!!

[Revived]

Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Green isn't young either.

I think the writing is on the wall for Green to not even play a minute tonight.

I wish you were right but it's one game. Let's see if that continues against GSW.

[Kerrsed]

Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Some people just cant let former players go. They are infatuated with them. You will always find a poster or two that wants us to pick up Dudly or Amundson or Frye or Amare or Marion or Nash. Its sad. For some reason they cant just move on.

[gaspar]

#IgniteThePast

[Nando88]

Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Some people just cant let former players go. They are infatuated with them. You will always find a poster or two that wants us to pick up Dudly or Amundson or Frye or Amare or Marion or Nash. Its sad. For some reason they cant just move on.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[BobbieL]

Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Green isn't young either.

I think the writing is on the wall for Green to not even a minute tonight.

After the game it was mentiond that it was about matchups against the Bulls. I am good with that

Green can be fresh tonigh

As for trading for Dudley - no. He has 4.25m coming next year and the Suns need to starting moving players off the roster -- not adding. And by that I mean getting one or two guys to replace the end of the bench of guys not playing,draft picks to come Bogdanovih.

[bigfoot]

Someone please explain to me the infatuation with Dudley? He'd be buried on the bench most nights and he doesn't exactly fit the bill as being a young guy.

Some people just cant let former players go. They are infatuated with them. You will always find a poster or two that wants us to pick up Dudly or Amundson or Frye or Amare or Marion or Nash. Its sad. For some reason they cant just move on.

Nope ... I'm not infatuated with Dudley. Just looking at realistic trade option that would improve the team. Dudley is the same age as Green. If the Suns could find another realistic 3 and D guy I would be happy with that. Right now we need some better defense than provided by Green and Marcus who have both proven to be chuckers.

For example, anybody suggesting a trade for Wes Matthews is infatuated with Wet Dreams

[bigfoot]

Green isn't young either.

I think the writing is on the wall for Green to not even a minute tonight.

After the game it was mentiond that it was about matchups against the Bulls. I am good with that

Green can be fresh tonigh

As for trading for Dudley - no. He has 4.25m coming next year and the Suns need to starting moving players off the roster -- not adding. And by that I mean getting one or two guys to replace the end of the bench of guys not playing,draft picks to come Bogdanovih.

Dudley will opt out of the last year of his contract no doubt and will get paid for another three or four year contract at $5M per year. Some team is gonna be stupid and offer Green $8M per year.

[BobbieL]

I think the writing is on the wall for Green to not even a minute tonight.

After the game it was mentiond that it was about matchups against the Bulls. I am good with that

Green can be fresh tonigh

As for trading for Dudley - no. He has 4.25m coming next year and the Suns need to starting moving players off the roster -- not adding. And by that I mean getting one or two guys to replace the end of the bench of guys not playing,draft picks to come Bogdanovih.

Dudley will opt out of the last year of his contract no doubt and will get paid for another three or four year contract at $5M per year. Some team is gonna be stupid and offer Green $8M per year.

So, regarding Green - what is better for the Suns as I don't believe it when Ryan says the team wants him back as somebody is giving him the MLE at worst - so
1) trade him at the deadline for an expiring contract or second round draft choice. if an expiring is even possible
2) keep him for the summer and do a sign and trade for the team willing to overpay. Suns probably get a draft pick and trade exception

Granted, he could also be included in a trade in three weeks or so to make the dollars work

I just know I don't see a scenario where Green is on the roster next year when guys like Zoran and Bullock and Warren and Ennis and.. draft picks - are around

[Barkley6]

ON the Green V Dudley debate:

Dudley while a good leader, hustler and locker room guy, doesn't help us at this stage. He is not a better shooter than Green and would actually hurt us at what we do best which is score at a high pace (2nd in the league) and in transition. ANYone would rather have Gerald Green streaking down the floor on a fastbreak looking for an easy dunk or a spot up 3. With the speed our PGs have, they need guys who can move running with them. Green's athleticism is what gives him a role on this team. (I'd actually be willing to bet the only person on our current roster Dudley is faster than is Len...not what you want from a wing player). Dudley's role as a 3 and D type player is already occupied by PJ Tucker, and we just added a young guy with potential to possibly fill that role in the future (Bullock). So, adding Dudley just really doesn't make much sense.

I'm also on the standpat bandwagon. Since Alex Len has become a starter, we've looked every bit a playoff team and I see no reason to change that. The goal this year was to make the playoffs, if we achieve that, the season is a win for players, coaches and management.

Also, keep in mind, depending on how everything plays out, the Suns could easily be adding a top 10 lottery pick to this team. Some moves will have to be made, but I like the way we are constructed at present.

[bigfoot]

After the game it was mentiond that it was about matchups against the Bulls. I am good with that

Green can be fresh tonigh

As for trading for Dudley - no. He has 4.25m coming next year and the Suns need to starting moving players off the roster -- not adding. And by that I mean getting one or two guys to replace the end of the bench of guys not playing,draft picks to come Bogdanovih.

Dudley will opt out of the last year of his contract no doubt and will get paid for another three or four year contract at $5M per year. Some team is gonna be stupid and offer Green $8M per year.

So, regarding Green - what is better for the Suns as I don't believe it when Ryan says the team wants him back as somebody is giving him the MLE at worst - so
1) trade him at the deadline for an expiring contract or second round draft choice. if an expiring is even possible
2) keep him for the summer and do a sign and trade for the team willing to overpay. Suns probably get a draft pick and trade exception

Granted, he could also be included in a trade in three weeks or so to make the dollars work

I just know I don't see a scenario where Green is on the roster next year when guys like Zoran and Bullock and Warren and Ennis and.. draft picks - are around

1) He is already an expiring so trading for an expiring doesn't help. A second round pick is the best we could hope for. With a bench full of young players I'm not sure this is what we need.
2) A sign and trade might be the better option. I would guess a pick would not be in the deal. Basically we would get a trade exception.

Green is so over valued on this team. We didn't miss him at all last night against the Bulls. People can hoot and holler about his dunks and crazy azz threes but he is so, so, so, so weak on defense. PJ is our wing defender for the starting unit. We don't have anyone for the second unit and that is hurting us because both Marcus and Green are poor defenders.

[RunDogGun]

ON the Green V Dudley debate:

Dudley while a good leader, hustler and locker room guy, doesn't help us at this stage. He is not a better shooter than Green and would actually hurt us at what we do best which is score at a high pace (2nd in the league) and in transition. ANYone would rather have Gerald Green streaking down the floor on a fastbreak looking for an easy dunk or a spot up 3. With the speed our PGs have, they need guys who can move running with them. Green's athleticism is what gives him a role on this team. (I'd actually be willing to bet the only person on our current roster Dudley is faster than is Len...not what you want from a wing player). Dudley's role as a 3 and D type player is already occupied by PJ Tucker, and we just added a young guy with potential to possibly fill that role in the future (Bullock). So, adding Dudley just really doesn't make much sense.

I'm also on the standpat bandwagon. Since Alex Len has become a starter, we've looked every bit a playoff team and I see no reason to change that. The goal this year was to make the playoffs, if we achieve that, the season is a win for players, coaches and management.

Also, keep in mind, depending on how everything plays out, the Suns could easily be adding a top 10 lottery pick to this team. Some moves will have to be made, but I like the way we are constructed at present.

I'm not sure if you looked at the stats before you said Dudley isn't better at shooting than Green, because Green is only better at free throws. This season, which is the only one that matters, Dudley is better at everything but fts.

I'm not infatuated with Dudley, but we are sorely lacking BBIQ. I'm growing tired of watching Green dribble the ball up, and lose it for no other reason, than he sucks at dribbling. Or the three on one fast breaks, where he doesn't give the ball up to a real guard, and takes the three instead of getting the ball in a higher percentage shot. I love his hops, but I really haven't seen it much this season. He reverted back to a stupid chucker.

I would still love to have Admunson. I would rather have him than Plumlee at this point. It isn't a matter of not moving on, it's a matter of improving the team, chemistry, defense, and overall basketball IQ of the team. Why is that bad? Why wouldn't we want to improve our team?

[Frank Lee]

just know I don't see a scenario where Green is on the roster next year when guys like Zoran and Bullock and Warren and Ennis and.. draft picks - are around

It wouldn't be right to publicly talk about signing Green, while privately trying to pawn him off. I think they tested his trade value out there and realized he wont be moved solo. You have to attach value to him to trade him. Best to say we want him, hope for a discount, or be happy for him with a chunky deal elsewhere.

Plus, there is no guarantee the listed youngsters will be here... The 'toss in rook/second yr guy' is an often requested trade chip when working on a bigger deal.



This stand pat movement.... aren't you just embracing the likeliest outcome ?

[RunDogGun]

I think it's crazy that Green isn't a better defender or rebounder. He has speed, length, and height. I still feel he could double his rebounds, just by following his shot.

[bigfoot]

ON the Green V Dudley debate:

Dudley while a good leader, hustler and locker room guy, doesn't help us at this stage. He is not a better shooter than Green and would actually hurt us at what we do best which is score at a high pace (2nd in the league) and in transition. ANYone would rather have Gerald Green streaking down the floor on a fastbreak looking for an easy dunk or a spot up 3. With the speed our PGs have, they need guys who can move running with them. Green's athleticism is what gives him a role on this team. (I'd actually be willing to bet the only person on our current roster Dudley is faster than is Len...not what you want from a wing player). Dudley's role as a 3 and D type player is already occupied by PJ Tucker, and we just added a young guy with potential to possibly fill that role in the future (Bullock). So, adding Dudley just really doesn't make much sense.

I'm also on the standpat bandwagon. Since Alex Len has become a starter, we've looked every bit a playoff team and I see no reason to change that. The goal this year was to make the playoffs, if we achieve that, the season is a win for players, coaches and management.

Also, keep in mind, depending on how everything plays out, the Suns could easily be adding a top 10 lottery pick to this team. Some moves will have to be made, but I like the way we are constructed at present.

Yep on the stand pat part. That was part of my original Dudley post where I suggested the only change would be to get better at the bench SG/SF position. Still feel we could make a much stronger push for the playoffs if we had a better wing bench player than Green or Marcus. When it comes down to the playoffs we will need the defense that these two goofballs don't provide off the bench. Now you need to look at your numbers ... Dudley is a far superior shooter than Green and the numbers show it ... 2ptrs .496 and 3ptrs .412 while Green is .416 for 2's and .371 for Suns. Green scores more points because he is a high volume shooter.

Somebody (McD) needs to find a replacement for Green ... we only have a few weeks.

[Frank Lee]

I think it's crazy that Green isn't a better defender or rebounder. He has speed, length, and height. I still feel he could double his rebounds, just by following his shot.

Yet Dudley is slow, short, and squatty ... yet he is a better defender. hmmmmm... what else could it be?

[bigfoot]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fanc ... ald-green/

“I don’t want to just shoot threes. I’m not that type of player. I need to be more of a take-what-the-defense-gives-me player and not force the issue. Last year, I was forcing it because I needed to score to help the team win. This year, my scoring really is not needed. I just need to go out there and not make a bozo play and give the other team momentum”

Bozo speaks ... unfortunately doesn't say anything about playing defense

[Cutter]

I just don't understand why more young players don't focus on defense more in their early years. Longevity in the NBA is built around defense. The ability to knowledgeably and athletically guard multiple positions will almost certainly make you a coveted player around the league. If you add a solid offensive game you can play 15 years and make over $100 million in lifetime earnings. If you play defense and have an elite offensive game you can become a billionaire by the end of your career. To me, it all starts with learning to play defense at an early age.

Most young players just seem to want to dunk or jack 3's. They come into the league lacking fundamental aspects of the game.

[Barkley6]

ON the Green V Dudley debate:

Dudley while a good leader, hustler and locker room guy, doesn't help us at this stage. He is not a better shooter than Green and would actually hurt us at what we do best which is score at a high pace (2nd in the league) and in transition. ANYone would rather have Gerald Green streaking down the floor on a fastbreak looking for an easy dunk or a spot up 3. With the speed our PGs have, they need guys who can move running with them. Green's athleticism is what gives him a role on this team. (I'd actually be willing to bet the only person on our current roster Dudley is faster than is Len...not what you want from a wing player). Dudley's role as a 3 and D type player is already occupied by PJ Tucker, and we just added a young guy with potential to possibly fill that role in the future (Bullock). So, adding Dudley just really doesn't make much sense.

I'm also on the standpat bandwagon. Since Alex Len has become a starter, we've looked every bit a playoff team and I see no reason to change that. The goal this year was to make the playoffs, if we achieve that, the season is a win for players, coaches and management.

Also, keep in mind, depending on how everything plays out, the Suns could easily be adding a top 10 lottery pick to this team. Some moves will have to be made, but I like the way we are constructed at present.

Yep on the stand pat part. That was part of my original Dudley post where I suggested the only change would be to get better at the bench SG/SF position. Still feel we could make a much stronger push for the playoffs if we had a better wing bench player than Green or Marcus. When it comes down to the playoffs we will need the defense that these two goofballs don't provide off the bench. Now you need to look at your numbers ... Dudley is a far superior shooter than Green and the numbers show it ... 2ptrs .496 and 3ptrs .412 while Green is .416 for 2's and .371 for Suns. Green scores more points because he is a high volume shooter.

Somebody (McD) needs to find a replacement for Green ... we only have a few weeks.

I do agree that our wing D needs to improve, but I don't think there is a trade out there that will help us improve that while keeping our bench offense intact. We're not a perfect team, and won't be turned into one this season. There is a reason we are the 8th seed. What I'm saying is we need to manage expectations and see that this is a team making steps for the future, making a trade with only this season in mind is short sighted and barring injury, is unlikely to happen. Part of the logic of constructing a younger team is you're planning for seasons down the road, and trading for Dudley doesn't do that. He would potentially add more salary to our cap next year which could limit our ability to re-sign Brandan Wright and Goran Dragic.

On the topic of managing expectations, how often are Gerald Green and Marcus Morris put in a position to guard a premier offensive threat at a crucial point in the game? Not often. Bench players are never going to be complete players, that's why they are bench players and not starters. If Marcus or Gerald played above average defense, making them complete two way players, they would both be making over 10m/season and starting somewhere. If you look at our bench, each of them has one thing they do above average: Green-Score
Marcus-Shoot
IT-Score
Wright-finish at the rim
Plum-Protect the rim.

Is it tilted towards the offensive side? Yes, it is. But to me then, that means the coach needs to find good combinations to play together to cover those deficiencies. So, for example, I'm not going to play IT and Green as my backcourt because they will get destroyed on D, and make too many mistakes on offense.

The point I'm making is, I don't think you can find very many complete two way bench players over the age of 26. To exemplify my point, of the top 5 in 6th man voting in 2014, only Manu Ginobili (a former starter, who only became a bench player at age 34) and Taj Gibson are truly players who have an impact on both ends of the floor. Because Jamal Crawford, Markieff and Reggie Jackson are included based on their offensive contributions.

[bigfoot]

I just don't understand why more young players don't focus on defense more in their early years. Longevity in the NBA is built around defense. The ability to knowledgeably and athletically guard multiple positions will almost certainly make you a coveted player around the league. If you add a solid offensive game you can play 15 years and make over $100 million in lifetime earnings. If you play defense and have an elite offensive game you can become a billionaire by the end of your career. To me, it all starts with learning to play defense at an early age.

Most young players just seem to want to dunk or jack 3's. They come into the league lacking fundamental aspects of the game.

Most defenses in high school and college are zone. The NBA relies mainly on man-to-man because the shooters are so good. This is why BBIQ is important ... have to be able to learn different defensive systems quickly.

[BobbieL]

Dudley will opt out of the last year of his contract no doubt and will get paid for another three or four year contract at $5M per year. Some team is gonna be stupid and offer Green $8M per year.

So, regarding Green - what is better for the Suns as I don't believe it when Ryan says the team wants him back as somebody is giving him the MLE at worst - so
1) trade him at the deadline for an expiring contract or second round draft choice. if an expiring is even possible
2) keep him for the summer and do a sign and trade for the team willing to overpay. Suns probably get a draft pick and trade exception

Granted, he could also be included in a trade in three weeks or so to make the dollars work

I just know I don't see a scenario where Green is on the roster next year when guys like Zoran and Bullock and Warren and Ennis and.. draft picks - are around

1) He is already an expiring so trading for an expiring doesn't help. A second round pick is the best we could hope for. With a bench full of young players I'm not sure this is what we need.
2) A sign and trade might be the better option. I would guess a pick would not be in the deal. Basically we would get a trade exception.

Green is so over valued on this team. We didn't miss him at all last night against the Bulls. People can hoot and holler about his dunks and crazy azz threes but he is so, so, so, so weak on defense. PJ is our wing defender for the starting unit. We don't have anyone for the second unit and that is hurting us because both Marcus and Green are poor defenders.

Just to clarify, the reason I said for an expiring is the dollars still need to match the cap. So maybe a playoff bound team, though the Suns are playoff bound right now - would want Green and to trade for him,. they need to match salaries - and I doubt there is a player out there a team will give up for Green that has more value.

But yes, his value, is pretty nominal to me right now - and if its a second rounder, that's good. If they hold for the summer and see if there is an S&T of better value, that works too

To me, the optimum is to include him in with a bigger trade in three weeks. Thomas, the Morri, Plumlee, - open for business

As to me, this team is about Dragic and Bledsoe long term. Isiah has nice moments - but I think Bledsoe and Dragic are the better players. Thomas and Green minutes just take away from EB and the Dragon