Official Trade Thread: The Block Is Hot!!

[Revived]

Len for Nate Robinson and DEN 1st rounder. Nuggets are trying to land Brook Lopez, we can give them Len instead and get a pick in the process.

Hornacek would coach for free if we did this deal.

[JJ13]

Len for Nate Robinson and DEN 1st rounder. Nuggets are trying to land Brook Lopez, we can give them Len instead and get a pick in the process.

Hornacek would coach for free if we did this deal.

Can't tell if serious. Hoping this is a joke.

[Revived]

Len for Nate Robinson and DEN 1st rounder. Nuggets are trying to land Brook Lopez, we can give them Len instead and get a pick in the process.

Hornacek would coach for free if we did this deal.

Can't tell if serious. Hoping this is a joke.

I thought the last line would give it away but apparently not.

[Kerrsed]

My idea for a "Celtic Big 3 Like" rebuild.

Step 1. Trade Thomas/Plumlee to the Bucks for Mayo/Henson. According to a Bucks insider, they are looking to make some major moves. With Kidd now GM/Coach, he is looking to rebuild the entire roster (with the 3 exceptions being Parker/Antetokounmpo/Pachulia). They like Knight, but are too far apart with a contract extension, and are currently looking for a new starting PG. Thats where Thomas comes into play. Plumlee gives them a back-up C on the cheap for Zaza. They also are able to dump Mayo's remaining salary. Mayo gives us a REAL SG that can penetrate and hit the open 3. Unlike Thomas, Mayo has stated that he is fine coming off the bench and playing that 6th man role. But lets not get it wrong, this trade is not all about us getting Mayo, its about us getting Henson first and foremost. Henson gives us a nice young PF/C in what i see as a Kevin Garnett mold. If you compare both of their 3rd season stats, they are very similar. Henson's long, wiry, defensive, can rebound at a great pace, and is excellent at blocking shots. His PER36 stats (on a horrible team) are:
14.5 points (58%FG), 9.2 rebounds, 2.1 assists, and an AMAZING 3.7 BLOCKS!

From there we just finish up the season. Make the play-offs or not, its on to the next step!

Step 2. Sign Matthews to a max contract in FA. Yeah, i said it. Sign him the F up! He is a great defender and a great shooter. He already has a great relationship with Hornasek, whom he credits with making him the player that he is today. Matthews gives us a Ray Allen type shooter/scorer. He might not be as great of a shooter as Allen, but he is definitely twice the defender, and that makes up for it.

2. In the offseason, Sign-and-trade Dragicx2/Morrisx2/future 1st or Goodwin or Warren ($26M) to NY for Melo ($26M). This might seem a bit crazy to some of you, but its something i feel needs to be done. We buy ourselves a superstar. Melo provides great scoring and decent defense at the SF spot 'ala Paul Pierce. He gives every game his all. Look at his current situation, he is stuck on a horrible horrible horrible Knicks team that has crumbled and imploded. Because of teammates injuries, he is stuck playing with a bunch of D-League/Euro-League players, many of whom have no business even being in the NBA. The FO wants to shut him down for the rest of the season, but he said, "Nope! It aint gonna happen!". Thats what i like to see! When others want him to quit, he doesnt. 24PPG/6.7RPG/3APG is numbers i could learn to love from my starting SF.

The Knicks assure themselves getting Dragic this way. Otherwise there could be many other teams that make a play for him and the Knicks could lose out. They get themselves the Twins on excellent contracts while unloading Melo's salary, thus giving them max space to completely start their rebuild (STAT and Bargnani also expire). They can also have their choice of either a future 1st, Goodwin, or Warren. I believe they would take the future 1st.

Step 4. Re-sign Wright. Dont know what size contract, but start him around $6M for the 1st season.

AND THERE YOU GO!





Bledsoe = Rondo : Defensive PG. Triple Double threat. Bledsoe has much better Offense than Rondo did.
Matthews = Allen : Great Shooter/Scorer. Allen was a better shooter, but Wes is a much better defender.
Melo = Pierce : I believe Melo is the same type SF as PP was, but Melo has better offense and defense.
Henson = KG : Its a bit of a stretch, and Henson isnt nearly as good as KG, but is the same type of PF. DEFENSE!
Len = Perkins : Big defensive C in the paint to rebound. Len has much much better offense.

Bledsoe/Ennis
Matthews/Mayo/Goodwin
Melo/Bullock/Warren
Henson/Tucker/DRAFT!
Len/Wright

That line-up comes out to roughly $79M. The Cap is projected to be:

The numbers for 2015-16 are now projected to be $66.5 million, and the tax level is projected to be $81.0 million, respectively.

So that puts us over the cap, but just under the tax.

The following year, Mayo's $8M comes off the books and the cap is expected to jump super high due to the new TV money coming in. That allows us to make adjustments if need be, without disrupting our core players who are locked in long term (Bledsoe/Matthews/Melo/Len)

[Kjdills13]

I think everyone forgets this team is not in win TODAY mode. This is part of building for the future. We have

Morris
Morris
Len
Bledsoe
Thomas
Tucker

6 of our core players locked up under great contracts with the new cba

Then we have guys like
Ennis
Goodwin
Warren
Dragic 2

Under contracts also


All we need to do is wait let so,es of these guys develop and make one trade or signing of a player who fits us and do to the cap situation we are in we can overpay for that player with the new cba.


IMO our 2 spots of weakness are the SF position and a center who can post up.

[MathiasPW]

My idea for a "Celtic Big 3 Like" rebuild.


AND THERE YOU GO!

Can see you are very excited about this idea. I also like it. Biggest potential flaw is assuming Henson can play a Garnett role.

Here is some investigation:

1) Outside Shooting/Spacing
- Garnett has a great mid-range shot (45.6% this season)
- Henson plays strictly in the paint, mostly in restricted area. Has only 9 shots from Mid-Range this year, and with 33% FG
>> Garnett opens lanes for slashing guards such as Bledsoe or Rondo. Henson would not be able to do that.

2) Defending the Paint
- Both are pretty good at rim protection, very comparable stats at Opp FG% Average vs Them (between 2% to 3% less FG% when playing against any of them).Unfortunately I don't have defensive stats for Garnett back in the days he was a champ with the Celtics to compare his current self to his former self.

3) Rebounding
- Henson seems to be a much better rebounder, as nearly half of his rebounds are contested (vs 30% for Garnett). Garnetts rebounding has been declining for the past 8 seasons, though, so can't really tell how good he was during his Big 3 campaign.

4) Intangibles

The Real Plus Minus for both is still way better for Garnett (+2,33 DRPM, + 1,39 Total RPM) than for Henson (+0.86 DRPM, -1.13 Total RPM). Don't know much about the stat, but Garnett plays 4 more mpg than Henson, so that could be biased. But if sustains the overall impression that Garnett impacts the game much more than Henson.
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I think spacing and overall impact (he seems to be a really easy-going guy) are areas where Henson would really be lagging. I also think Henson is pretty much the same kind of player we already have in Wright.

[Frank Lee]

Dr Jack.... is that you ???

Seems logical Kerrsed, and I don't think you'd have much boohooing from the fan base..... could work, except for the opening salvo.... I think Thomas , with all his high octane scoring, has a negative value with his contract and one man band style. Would you commit to 20 million over the next 3 for him ? I think many would just take Nate Rob for a deuce for a yr and see if having a half pint works. Signing Thomas is beginning to remind me of Dumars and Gordan. Lets hope the comparison ends there. Hindsight says, no way we load up on IT given the same chance again.

We have also inked up Tucker, Bled, and the MOBros long term. The MoBros might be hard to move as a pair. That was a 'feel good' moment to get Keif locked in, but Bro2 brings any bargain with Bro1 back to even. CusMo at 5 perX4 ... thats another 20 million to choke down for a marginal one dimensional role playing tweener. Weee... we save a few bucks on Keif... to get stuck overpaying his share a brain brother. And now the dynamic duo is turning into a PR gruesome twosome.

At least Tucker's deal only goes for the next two, and he bought his own lunchpail.

Long and short of it....The Bled signing was played marvelously, but they panicked and pooch screwed up with IT. The MoBros and their sketchy one-ness make them difficult to move. Certainly, NOBODY is going to come calling for Marcus by himself. Any GM laughs at the dysfunctional 'they play better when they are together' routine.

Its going to take some creating thinking, arm twisting, family threats, and flat out bribery to pull off something like what you outlined Kerrsed. The FO boys have painted themselves into a tight corner, locking themselves into players that just don't seem to mesh, yet difficult to move. Makes me wonder if McDo is really the FO wizard we all anointed him as ????

[Kjdills13]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=q6tausl

Suns- oladipo, vucevic

Magic- lakers 1st, Dragic, Len,

Dragic agree to max deal with magic

[Kerrsed]

Can see you are very excited about this idea. I also like it. Biggest potential flaw is assuming Henson can play a Garnett role.

Here is some investigation:

1) Outside Shooting/Spacing
- Garnett has a great mid-range shot (45.6% this season)
- Henson plays strictly in the paint, mostly in restricted area. Has only 9 shots from Mid-Range this year, and with 33% FG
>> Garnett opens lanes for slashing guards such as Bledsoe or Rondo. Henson would not be able to do that.

2) Defending the Paint
- Both are pretty good at rim protection, very comparable stats at Opp FG% Average vs Them (between 2% to 3% less FG% when playing against any of them).Unfortunately I don't have defensive stats for Garnett back in the days he was a champ with the Celtics to compare his current self to his former self.

3) Rebounding
- Henson seems to be a much better rebounder, as nearly half of his rebounds are contested (vs 30% for Garnett). Garnetts rebounding has been declining for the past 8 seasons, though, so can't really tell how good he was during his Big 3 campaign.

4) Intangibles

The Real Plus Minus for both is still way better for Garnett (+2,33 DRPM, + 1,39 Total RPM) than for Henson (+0.86 DRPM, -1.13 Total RPM). Don't know much about the stat, but Garnett plays 4 more mpg than Henson, so that could be biased. But if sustains the overall impression that Garnett impacts the game much more than Henson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think spacing and overall impact (he seems to be a really easy-going guy) are areas where Henson would really be lagging. I also think Henson is pretty much the same kind of player we already have in Wright.

I dont think the spacing would be much of an issue, as from what i have seen Len seems to hit that mid-range jumper at a great rate when he has the opportunity. The thing is, currently we almost never give him that opportunity. When he does shoot it, it surprises me, as i never think its going to go in, but it contently does.

So if it came down to it, you could actually swap the Garnett/Perkins roles Len/Henson.

As for the stats, i was using the PER36 for both of them, and this is for Henson's 3rd season (2014) and Garnett's 3rd season as well (1997). http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

[Frank Lee]

You are going to need an abracadabra with that one Kjd

[Kerrsed]

Dr Jack.... is that you ???

Seems logical Kerrsed, and I don't think you'd have much boohooing from the fan base..... could work, except for the opening salvo.... I think Thomas , with all his high octane scoring, has a negative value with his contract and one man band style. Would you commit to 20 million over the next 3 for him ? I think many would just take Nate Rob for a deuce for a yr and see if having a half pint works. Signing Thomas is beginning to remind me of Dumars and Gordan. Lets hope the comparison ends there. Hindsight says, no way we load up on IT given the same chance again.

I dont think that his contract is bad at all. $7M for a great 6th man is pretty good! $7M for a starting PG is even better! You also have to remember that his contract is structured to go DOWN each year, with the final year being only $6.2M. When given the opportunity, Thomas can provide, whether its points or assists. He also has had a rather high PER (Currently 20!) for the past few years, so there is something there. The Bucks are looking for someone to start at PG for them. Word from their insider is they were talking to Denver about Lawson, but Denver is adamant on tacking McGee's contract with him, and the Bucks aint having that. Lawson himself is only 5'11", so i dont think that size is an issue for them. Reports were that Brandon Knight was looking for $14M a season and the Bucks wernt down with that. So instead of taking their offer he decided to go the Monroe route and just take the QO ($4.8M)

So Knight @ $14M or Lawson @ $12.M (and McGee's $12M) or Thomas @ $6.9M?

We have also inked up Tucker, Bled, and the MOBros long term. The MoBros might be hard to move as a pair. That was a 'feel good' moment to get Keif locked in, but Bro2 brings any bargain with Bro1 back to even. CusMo at 5 perX4 ... thats another 20 million to choke down for a marginal one dimensional role playing tweener. Weee... we save a few bucks on Keif... to get stuck overpaying his share a brain brother. And now the dynamic duo is turning into a PR gruesome twosome.

As long as there is no Jailtime, i dont think it would be hard to move them (Specially pairing them with the Dragic Bros.). Half of NY's roster is complete crap, and the other half is expiring crap. They really dont have much to start a rebuild around. The Dragic Bros. and Morris Bros. give them that youth to rebuild around and on decent contracts, leaving them plenty of cash to throw at FA's. They can either have $26M tied up in one great (yet older) player, or in 4 good to decent (much younger) players. Hell, they could even split up the twins if they really wanted to and just keep Keiff. Im just saying, its a decent package for them to start anew and Dragic would be GUARANTEED theirs for years to come.

[Frank Lee]

Come on Kerrsed... keep the horse in front.

You really think that Pass-master Kidd would want a chuck first PG running his show ? He was happy with cheap Kendall Marshal as a back up, and they were winning with Knight. I just don't see how the Bucks, or any team at this moment would want to commit 6 1/2 mill per to perhaps the one trick-est pony from the herd. Especially the Bucks.

You want to move Thomas, be content with losing that deal to win long term. No F-n way would I trade off 'the next KG' for him
Now you could always try for gimpy Ersan straight up

[Kerrsed]

Come on Kerrsed... keep the horse in front.

You really think that Pass-master Kidd would want a chuck first PG running his show ? He was happy with cheap Kendall Marshal as a back up, and they were winning with Knight. I just don't see how the Bucks, or any team at this moment would want to commit 6 1/2 mill per perhaps the one trick-est pony from the herd. Especially the Bucks.

Im just saying, they were happy with what Knight provided and were interested in keeping him, but not at $14M.

When Thomas was starting last season, he was putting up better numbers across the board than Knight.

Thomas- 20 points (45%FG 85%FT)/ 6.3 assists / 2.9 rebounds / 1.3 steals / 3 TO / 21 PER
Knight- 17.7 points (43%FG 89%FT)/ 5.3 assists / 4.2 rebounds / 1.7 steals / 3.3 TO /18.4 PER
Lawson - 16.5 points (43%FG 72%FT)/ 9.9 assists / 3.2 rebounds / 1.3 steals / 2.7 TO / 18.97 PER

I added Lawson in there as well to show what his extra $5M a year gives ya.

If you think taking IT's stats from last season (when he was a starter) and comparing them to Knight/Lawson stats for this season is unfair, then check out the Per36 comparison for this season: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=" target="_blank

So for being a "Shoot first PG", he sure has nicer assists and shooting numbers than the guy that they were just trying to ink to a new contract @ about $4M more!

I can argue this point all day long! The numbers dont lie!

[Frank Lee]

......$7M for a great 6th man is pretty good! $7M for a starting PG is even better!.....

There is where we differ. Thomas brings one thing to the game ... when he checks in, you can count on him shooting, and shooting, and shooting. He'll make the occasional pass, but if he has the ball in his hands, his first priority is to create a shot for him self. Period.

That type of 6th man requires an adjustment and acceptance from 4 other guys/spectators. IT is way too much of a ball hog and liability on D to ever be a successful starting PG.

His success last night came largely at the expense of slow footed Udrih, who had no prayer in keeping IT in front of him. That is where IT excels... when he has the match up edge. Unfortunately, he never has the edge on defense.

Just be happy with the Melo part of that trade. Find your next KG in the draft or free agency.

[Sunsdeuce]

My idea for a "Celtic Big 3 Like" rebuild.

Step 1. Trade Thomas/Plumlee to the Bucks for Mayo/Henson. According to a Bucks insider, they are looking to make some major moves. With Kidd now GM/Coach, he is looking to rebuild the entire roster (with the 3 exceptions being Parker/Antetokounmpo/Pachulia). They like Knight, but are too far apart with a contract extension, and are currently looking for a new starting PG. Thats where Thomas comes into play. Plumlee gives them a back-up C on the cheap for Zaza. They also are able to dump Mayo's remaining salary. Mayo gives us a REAL SG that can penetrate and hit the open 3. Unlike Thomas, Mayo has stated that he is fine coming off the bench and playing that 6th man role. But lets not get it wrong, this trade is not all about us getting Mayo, its about us getting Henson first and foremost. Henson gives us a nice young PF/C in what i see as a Kevin Garnett mold. If you compare both of their 3rd season stats, they are very similar. Henson's long, wiry, defensive, can rebound at a great pace, and is excellent at blocking shots. His PER36 stats (on a horrible team) are:
14.5 points (58%FG), 9.2 rebounds, 2.1 assists, and an AMAZING 3.7 BLOCKS!

From there we just finish up the season. Make the play-offs or not, its on to the next step!

Step 2. Sign Matthews to a max contract in FA. Yeah, i said it. Sign him the F up! He is a great defender and a great shooter. He already has a great relationship with Hornasek, whom he credits with making him the player that he is today. Matthews gives us a Ray Allen type shooter/scorer. He might not be as great of a shooter as Allen, but he is definitely twice the defender, and that makes up for it.

2. In the offseason, Sign-and-trade Dragicx2/Morrisx2/future 1st or Goodwin or Warren ($26M) to NY for Melo ($26M). This might seem a bit crazy to some of you, but its something i feel needs to be done. We buy ourselves a superstar. Melo provides great scoring and decent defense at the SF spot 'ala Paul Pierce. He gives every game his all. Look at his current situation, he is stuck on a horrible horrible horrible Knicks team that has crumbled and imploded. Because of teammates injuries, he is stuck playing with a bunch of D-League/Euro-League players, many of whom have no business even being in the NBA. The FO wants to shut him down for the rest of the season, but he said, "Nope! It aint gonna happen!". Thats what i like to see! When others want him to quit, he doesnt. 24PPG/6.7RPG/3APG is numbers i could learn to love from my starting SF.

The Knicks assure themselves getting Dragic this way. Otherwise there could be many other teams that make a play for him and the Knicks could lose out. They get themselves the Twins on excellent contracts while unloading Melo's salary, thus giving them max space to completely start their rebuild (STAT and Bargnani also expire). They can also have their choice of either a future 1st, Goodwin, or Warren. I believe they would take the future 1st.

Step 4. Re-sign Wright. Dont know what size contract, but start him around $6M for the 1st season.

AND THERE YOU GO!





Bledsoe = Rondo : Defensive PG. Triple Double threat. Bledsoe has much better Offense than Rondo did.
Matthews = Allen : Great Shooter/Scorer. Allen was a better shooter, but Wes is a much better defender.
Melo = Pierce : I believe Melo is the same type SF as PP was, but Melo has better offense and defense.
Henson = KG : Its a bit of a stretch, and Henson isnt nearly as good as KG, but is the same type of PF. DEFENSE!
Len = Perkins : Big defensive C in the paint to rebound. Len has much much better offense.

Bledsoe/Ennis
Matthews/Mayo/Goodwin
Melo/Bullock/Warren
Henson/Tucker/DRAFT!
Len/Wright

That line-up comes out to roughly $79M. The Cap is projected to be:

The numbers for 2015-16 are now projected to be $66.5 million, and the tax level is projected to be $81.0 million, respectively.

So that puts us over the cap, but just under the tax.

The following year, Mayo's $8M comes off the books and the cap is expected to jump super high due to the new TV money coming in. That allows us to make adjustments if need be, without disrupting our core players who are locked in long term (Bledsoe/Matthews/Melo/Len)

This would renew my "joy" in being a fan of the Suns. Please give ryan a call. Get it done.

[RunDogGun]

Do we have cap room to sign Matthews to a max?

[Jdiddy701]

I know we don't need another PG but I really want Oladipo with Bledsoe. I think the Suns can go far with them two and Len in the future. Orlando on a slump.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Frank Lee]

I can argue this point all day long! The numbers dont lie!

They may not lie, but they can Distort. Its the 'letters' that are important ... "W's and L's"

Look, i really think it is difficult to deal IT right now. May be come the off season when draft picks become more defined. Got to leave it at that. Odds say its Goran going anyway.

And if I was looking for offense to finish out this season, I'd be calling about GGreen. Far less risk, but yet the capabilities to flat out win you 2-3 games. Heck, I'd even run a play or two for him just to make his life easier.



On Green, every game he doesn't play, makes his price tag cheaper next yr. He can't be in a happy spot right now.

[kennydorglas]

Great idea, Kerrsed.
I was thinking about something like that yesterday.
Bring Wes Matthews in, give TJ Warren a chance at 3, trade for Gibson/O'Quinn...
but I like your idea better.
Well done, man.

[Kerrsed]

Do we have cap room to sign Matthews to a max?

If we do it in the order i listed, yes! Thats what makes it perfect. The Bucks trade shaves off about $1.5M this season, but next season we would be paying Henson/Mayo about $1M more than we would be paying Thomas/Plumlee.

With all our players (before the NY trade, so including the MoBro's salary) we would be at $52.3M. The salary cap is expected to be $66.5M, so that gives us roughly $14M to throw at Matthews for his first year. We could also structure it so he gets less his 1st year and it increases much more the following years, which would help out since the cap is supposed to be increasing a lot over the next 3 years due to the TV deal.

From there we are allowed to exceed the cap re-signing our own players (Dragic), which we would do, then package him and his brother with the MoBros and send them out to NY for Melo.

So in short, if done in the correct order, we could do all the moves i suggested in my trade post and be slightly over the cap yet under the tax for next season.