Athlete: Lebron vs Bo Jackson vs Wilt

[SkyHookFTW]

Wilt was "seriously into weight lifting" since he was a young teenager.




Ben Wallace was said to bench a huge amount and yet Shaq would easily overpower him.
Weight room numbers don't always translate to basketball strength especially upper body ones which are less relevant for overpowering guys which relies more on having big strong legs and a big strong core/base.

Wilt had that base. It didn't look as big as Shaq's but that doesn't mean he was weaker. Again, don't people understand how powerful of a core top level track and field athletes have?

It's simple: Wilt did those things on the court and as a track and field athlete, and Shaq didn't. That is not a made-up story, it is fact verified in the NCAA record books.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Wilt had that base. It didn't look as big as Shaq's but that doesn't mean he was weaker. Again, don't people understand how powerful of a core top level track and field athletes have?

I am pretty sure Wilt had a very strong base especially in his older years when he visibly bulked up his lower/overall body. He also always had strong legs.

Shaq however had a wider and bigger base with bigger legs.
This is probably represented to some degree by his weight advantage.

Prime Shaq was usually in the 300-325 range. Peak Shaq was probably around 335-350.
Prime Wilt was usually in the 270-290 range. Old Wilt was probably around 300-315.

We can see in the pictures Cavs posted that Rookie Shaq was basically the same size as LAL Wilt which helps supports my weight figures.

Wilt also had a higher center of gravity (long legs) which probably made it harder for him to leverage his strength while making it easier for others to leverage against him.
There is a reason why some very tall power players tend to struggle most when posting up against short, stocky, heavy guys with very strong bases.

I don't want to put down Wilt and I don't mind those who believe he was equal in strength or stronger and I am not familiar enough with the 60's yet to say that any of my opinions are concrete but I think my perspective on the matter is reasonable and that I used good information.

Shaq at his Peak was like the NBA Hulk.
Dude may have been the most physically feared player in NBA history.
He'd go flying into a group of 2-3 big defenders and send them down like bowling pins while he himself would barely get shook off balance.
There was no one who could equal Shaq in terms of raw power. No one.
Power was Shaq's unique GOAT intangible and he deserves recognition for it.

Wilt might be #2 and he potentially/clearly has some athletic advantages over Shaq like endurance, max vert, top end speed (in his youth) so you can still probably argue him for GOAT athlete but in terms of raw power Shaq takes the cake.

[SkyHookFTW]

Wilt had that base. It didn't look as big as Shaq's but that doesn't mean he was weaker. Again, don't people understand how powerful of a core top level track and field athletes have?

I am pretty sure Wilt had a very strong base especially in his older years when he visibly bulked up his lower/overall body. He also always had strong legs.

Shaq however had a wider and bigger base with bigger legs.
This is probably represented to some degree by his weight advantage.

Prime Shaq was usually in the 300-325 range. Peak Shaq was probably around 335-350.
Prime Wilt was usually in the 270-290 range. Old Wilt was probably around 300-315.

We can see in the pictures Cavs posted that Rookie Shaq was basically the same size as LAL Wilt which helps supports my weight figures.

Wilt also had a higher center of gravity (long legs) which probably made it harder for him to leverage his strength while making it easier for others to leverage against him.
There is a reason why some very tall power players tend to struggle most when posting up against short, stocky, heavy guys with very strong bases.

I don't want to put down Wilt and I don't mind those who believe he was equal in strength or stronger and I am not familiar enough with the 60's yet to say that any of my opinions are concrete but I think my perspective on the matter is reasonable and that I used good information.

Shaq at his Peak was like the NBA Hulk.
Dude may have been the most physically feared player in NBA history.
He'd go flying into a group of 2-3 big defenders and send them down like bowling pins while he himself would barely get shook off balance.
There was no one who could equal Shaq in terms of raw power. No one.
Power was Shaq's unique GOAT intangible and he deserves recognition for it.

Wilt might be #2 and he potentially/clearly has some athletic advantages over Shaq like endurance, max vert, top end speed (in his youth) so you can still probably argue him for GOAT athlete but in terms of raw power Shaq takes the cake.

I think you and many others are under the misunderstanding that size always equals power. And how you can say Wilt has a top end speed advantage over Shaq only in his youth is laughable. Are you honestly telling me that fat old Shaq could outrun old Wilt? The same Wilt that still played over 42 minutes a game at age 36? Wilt peaked weight wise at 315, whereas I understand Shaq peaked at 355. Wilt was still physically trim and fit and moving up the court without sucking air; Shaq was clearly carrying quite a few extra pounds on his frame and looked like he needed an oxygen tank at the end of some games. Near the end of his career Wilt was still keeping up with younger smaller players; near the end of his career Shaq was the slowest man on the court sometimes.

What you are saying about the lower body base is true. It was easier for Shaq to leverage his strength, as Wilt was top heavy. But Wilt seemed to be an exception. He didn't have many problems going up against short, stocky players, as his strength was so extreme that he could overcome that disadvantage. Sure there were times that Wilt was pushed aside by Russell (another powerful track star BTW), but there were also times that I saw Shaq shoved aside by Dream and a few others. That doesn't mean that they were stronger that Shaq or Wilt, but it does mean that no player gets perfect positioning and has perfect footwork and motion on every play.

[RayBan-Sematra]

I think you and many others are under the misunderstanding that size always equals power.

You are correct but I am sure it factors in.
Lebron who is widely considered one of if not the strongest SF ever was also one of the heaviest.
Magic and Oscar the strongest PG's were bigger, heavier and stronger then every PG they faced.
Wilt at his strongest was 300+ which is heavier then most NBA C's including Star C's.

And how you can say Wilt has a top end speed advantage over Shaq only in his youth is laughable. Are you honestly telling me that fat old Shaq could outrun old Wilt?

I wasn't trying to imply that directly or indirectly.
If anything the gap may have increased when comparing their older years.

He didn't have many problems going up against short, stocky players, as his strength was so extreme that he could overcome that disadvantage.

I believe you. I was just trying to highlight the point that having a lower center of gravity is ideal when one is trying to leverage his own weight on the ball court. Doesn't mean Wilt had troubles with shorter guys (sans Russell).

Sure there were times that Wilt was pushed aside by Russell (another powerful track star BTW), but there were also times that I saw Shaq shoved aside by Dream and a few others. That doesn't mean that they were stronger that Shaq or Wilt, but it does mean that no player gets perfect positioning and has perfect footwork and motion on every play.

Fair enough.

[KyletheDingbat]

The problem with taking Wilt as an athlete over Shaq is that you have to convince yourself of it. If you take all the most impressive Wilt footage, and 2% of the most impressive Shaq footage, and show folks in Indonesia who've never seen the NBA, they will almost surely say Shaq is the better athlete. So to get on board with Wilt you need anecdotal evidence, stories, stats etc...

[CavaliersFTW]

The problem with taking Wilt as an athlete over Shaq is that you have to convince yourself of it. If you take all the most impressive Wilt footage, and 2% of the most impressive Shaq footage, and show folks in Indonesia who've never seen the NBA, they will almost surely say Shaq is the better athlete. So to get on board with Wilt you need anecdotal evidence, stories, stats etc...

Taking the most impressive 2% of shaq is taking the cream that has risen to the top

Wilt's 2% is a random 2% not the cream that has risen to the top.

Huge. HUGE difference.

[KyletheDingbat]

The problem with taking Wilt as an athlete over Shaq is that you have to convince yourself of it. If you take all the most impressive Wilt footage, and 2% of the most impressive Shaq footage, and show folks in Indonesia who've never seen the NBA, they will almost surely say Shaq is the better athlete. So to get on board with Wilt you need anecdotal evidence, stories, stats etc...

Taking the most impressive 2% of shaq is taking the cream that has risen to the top

Wilt's 2% is a random 2% not the cream that has risen to the top.

Huge. HUGE difference.

Not the top 2% most impressive, just 2% of the most impressive. However you're right that still is a disparity. Just choose any 2% really.

BTW I'm not saying that convincing yourself Wilt was more athletic is wrong. With all the stories, legends etc... I'm half convinced myself. It's just that you'd likely never come to that conclusion just by watching them.

[SkyHookFTW]

The problem with taking Wilt as an athlete over Shaq is that you have to convince yourself of it. If you take all the most impressive Wilt footage, and 2% of the most impressive Shaq footage, and show folks in Indonesia who've never seen the NBA, they will almost surely say Shaq is the better athlete. So to get on board with Wilt you need anecdotal evidence, stories, stats etc...

Taking the most impressive 2% of shaq is taking the cream that has risen to the top

Wilt's 2% is a random 2% not the cream that has risen to the top.

Huge. HUGE difference.

Not the top 2% most impressive, just 2% of the most impressive. However you're right that still is a disparity. Just choose any 2% really.

BTW I'm not saying that convincing yourself Wilt was more athletic is wrong. With all the stories, legends etc... I'm half convinced myself. It's just that you'd likely never come to that conclusion just by watching them.

The man excelled in two sports, and that's fact. It's in the record books, not anecdotal. I don't get how people don't understand that. And I'll add my "anecdotal" two cents in: I saw both of them play up close and personal. Both were great, but Wilt is the more athletic. Faster, quicker, jumps higher, better endurance, probably stronger.....that is what I saw. When someone proves to me that Shaq was a 3-time NCAA high jump champion, that Shaq could triple jump over 22 feet, that Shaq would have placed fifth in the Olympics on some running events based on known times (440 meters, the longest and hardest sprint event), that Shaq was invited to represent the U.S. in the decathalon by the USOC, that Shaq could put the shot over 53 feet or toss a javelin over 200 feet....then I'll put him up there with Wilt.

[KyletheDingbat]

Taking the most impressive 2% of shaq is taking the cream that has risen to the top

Wilt's 2% is a random 2% not the cream that has risen to the top.

Huge. HUGE difference.

Not the top 2% most impressive, just 2% of the most impressive. However you're right that still is a disparity. Just choose any 2% really.

BTW I'm not saying that convincing yourself Wilt was more athletic is wrong. With all the stories, legends etc... I'm half convinced myself. It's just that you'd likely never come to that conclusion just by watching them.

The man excelled in two sports, and that's fact. It's in the record books, not anecdotal. I don't get how people don't understand that. And I'll add my "anecdotal" two cents in: I saw both of them play up close and personal. Both were great, but Wilt is the more athletic. Faster, quicker, jumps higher, better endurance, probably stronger.....that is what I saw. When someone proves to me that Shaq was a 3-time NCAA high jump champion, that Shaq could triple jump over 22 feet, that Shaq would have placed fifth in the Olympics on some running events based on known times (440 meters, the longest and hardest sprint event), that Shaq was invited to represent the U.S. in the decathalon by the USOC, that Shaq could put the shot over 53 feet or toss a javelin over 200 feet....then I'll put him up there with Wilt.

I didn't just cite anecdotal evidence, I mentioned stories and stats too. His track stats count.

You saw them both so you're way more qualified to judge than me. No doubt Wilt is a more accomplished athlete. I'm just saying that by watching them I'd never come to the conclusion that Wilt was more athletic, and I probably speak for a majority. Shaq could dive for a loose ball full speed, leap over the front row, bring backboards down, toss guys around like rag dolls and catch lobs above the square. My friend is 6'2", 240 and Shaq picked up by his feet and jiggled him like a toddler, so there's my Shaq anecdote. He also held the record for highest ever reach on the backboard till Dwight barely broke it on sports science.

There might be an Ali/Tyson parallel here. Ali was first, and the best, and he had all the tools in the book. But then you see Tyson and you're like "oh good gracious that guy's an animal" and it just seems like Tyson would beat him. Same effect may be in play here.

Also are you sure about the 2% thing? I trust that you've documented it yourself so don't want to challenge that, but I'd think the NBA would have game reels stored away. They were still filming a lot of games back then. Is it just 2% that's available to the public?

[SkyHookFTW]

If CavsFTW says 2%, I believe him. He is the GOAT of basketball film!