We Are Stuck With Him - The Lance Stephenson Thread II

[gipper08]

ONe more point about Lance before I lay off...Lance IS an elite scorer.

BUt he is a feel scorer and rhythm shooter. When he is in the zone he wills it in.

IN Summer 2011 during the lockout guys were playing competitive ball to stay in shape at the INDY pro am.Guys flew in from all over the country.

Lance repeatedly scored at will on guys like Oladipo, Eric Gordon, George Hill, Alec Burks, Gordon hawyward,Chalmers, etc.

He dropped 50 one game all on Daquan Cook and scored every which way and treated him like a rag doll. The setting somewhat favored Lance, but the comp was elite and Lance was the best scorer there.

Tell me more about this ELITE scorer that Lance is. Lol

the most scoring potential in Hornet history, is that good for you? (ex Zo's 25 year)

[yosemiteben]

The shooting is not going to turn around until he gets the freedom to find rhythm, like Kemba did. He and kemba were shooting about the same and Kemba was given the freedom to find his way. Lance has not.

Lance was elite last year at catch and shoot.Lance is really good at floaters and pull ups. All three have abandoned him this year.

Last year Lance shot 34.6% on catch and shoot threes, and 28% on catch and shoot twos. That is hardly elite.

You can whine about freedom all you want, but when a guy is shooting 14% from three after 34 games the best route does not seem to be to get him more shots. We obviously are using Lance a lot on the ball, and maybe he's better suited to just sit outside and shoot (despite his abhorrent percentages). Unfortunately for him, we need more from him on this team.

Lance takes care of the ball. he simply has bad "looking" turnovers that makes you think that he is TO prone.

You quoted my post but completely ignored it and fats' very good post. He is posting a 1:1 A:TO ratio in non-blowout games since he got back from injury. He had four TOs in 20 minutes against SAS. He had 3 TOs in 23 minutes last night. That was turning the ball over a lot.

You can say that historically he doesn't turn the ball over, but right now he does. Right now he is not a positive contributor to our team in close games.

[gipper08]

lance

yeah i was not debating this year at all as he is crap on a crap team.I am talking what he could be and should be.

[catch20two]

ONe more point about Lance before I lay off...Lance IS an elite scorer.

BUt he is a feel scorer and rhythm shooter. When he is in the zone he wills it in.

IN Summer 2011 during the lockout guys were playing competitive ball to stay in shape at the INDY pro am.Guys flew in from all over the country.

Lance repeatedly scored at will on guys like Oladipo, Eric Gordon, George Hill, Alec Burks, Gordon hawyward,Chalmers, etc.

He dropped 50 one game all on Daquan Cook and scored every which way and treated him like a rag doll. The setting somewhat favored Lance, but the comp was elite and Lance was the best scorer there.

Tell me more about this ELITE scorer that Lance is. Lol

the most scoring potential in Hornet history(except Zos best year), is that good for you?

Lol. I'll be looking forward to this historical potential. Thanks. Elite scorers don't struggle to score tho.

[yosemiteben]

lance

yeah i was not debating this year at all as he is crap on a crap team.I am talking what he could be and should be.

Then don't blame it on coaching or him not having freedom. THIS YEAR Lance turns the ball over too much, can't hit open shots, plays poor defense and is generally not reliable against good teams.

[gipper08]

lance

yeah i was not debating this year at all as he is crap on a crap team.I am talking what he could be and should be.

Then don't blame it on coaching or him not having freedom. THIS YEAR Lance turns the ball over too much, can't hit open shots, plays poor defense and is generally not reliable against good teams.

No your coach is the second worst in the league behind JV, but Lance should overcome to a degree(instead he does not care.)

I was debating his TOs this year as he is near elite in that category among 2s. He does not TO too much this year. Period. His overall game is crap this year I am not debating that but NOT his TOs and playmaking. The guy is third at his position in ratio. Period.

Give him the offense and MKG, Zeller, and BIz are better players.

[mrknowitall215]

I can't say much about Lance Stephenson but that I'm disappointed that he's regressed from the middling player with all-around talents that he already was. I never was high on his potential, but I thought that he could be better than Henderson for us, and I'll openly admit that I was very wrong

[yosemiteben]

I can't take seriously any argument that Clifford is a terrible coach because he doesn't turn the reins over to Lance to somehow run the offense and also get lots of catch and shoot opportunities.

[fatlever]

ONe more point about Lance before I lay off...Lance IS an elite scorer.

BUt he is a feel scorer and rhythm shooter. When he is in the zone he wills it in.

IN Summer 2011 during the lockout guys were playing competitive ball to stay in shape at the INDY pro am.Guys flew in from all over the country.

Lance repeatedly scored at will on guys like Oladipo, Eric Gordon, George Hill, Alec Burks, Gordon hawyward,Chalmers, etc.

He dropped 50 one game all on Daquan Cook and scored every which way and treated him like a rag doll. The setting somewhat favored Lance, but the comp was elite and Lance was the best scorer there.

Tell me more about this ELITE scorer that Lance is. Lol

the most scoring potential in Hornet history(except Zos best year), is that good for you?

Um....

Larry Johnson
Baron Davis
Jamal Mashburn
Eddie Jones
Kelly Tripucka
Kendall Gill
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Kemba Walker
Al Jefferson

those are just the obvious guys who had more "scoring potential" as a Hornet/Bobcat

you could also add guys like...

Rex Chapman
Ricky Davis
Derrick Coleman
Dell Curry

[DY_nasty]

I can't say much about Lance Stephenson but that I'm disappointed that he's regressed from the middling player with all-around talents that he already was. I never was high on his potential, but I thought that he could be better than Henderson for us, and I'll openly admit that I was very wrong

as a side note, this is probably Henderson's best year ever

[gipper08]

I can't take seriously any argument that Clifford is a terrible coach because he doesn't turn the reins over to Lance to somehow run the offense and also get lots of catch and shoot opportunities.

I did not say he is a terrible coach because he did not give Lance the offense.most coaches would not. (though Lance with the ball and Kemba off it would get you to the second round at least)

he is a horrible coach for NOT HAVING a plan for Lance then putting him on a short leash calling him out immediately.(I mean get at LEAST out what Vogel got of Lance)
He is a horrible coach for double standards.
He is a horrible coach for having a pre set rotation despite whatever adjustments need to be made.(how many blown leads?????)
He is a horrible coach for ALFENSE.
Horrible coach for running five bench players together for long stretches.
He is a Horrible coach for not running more that would feature Cody, MKG, Lance, Biz, Hendo, even Kemba.
He is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE coach to think AL/Marvin at the 4/5 would be able to defend AT ALL.
He is a horrible coach because he is a control freak and micro manager who , for example, calls plays the whole 4th quarter of a then 40 point game.

[gipper08]

Tell me more about this ELITE scorer that Lance is. Lol

the most scoring potential in Hornet history(except Zos best year), is that good for you?

Um....

Larry Johnson
Baron Davis
Jamal Mashburn
Eddie Jones
Kelly Tripucka
Kendall Gill
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Kemba Walker
Al Jefferson

those are just the obvious guys who had more "scoring potential" as a Hornet/Bobcat

you could also add guys like...

Rex Chapman
Ricky Davis
Derrick Coleman
Dell Curry

We are talking potential here right? Harold Miner had more scoring potential than Stockton but I am pretty sure stockton scored more. lol.

Ask Larry bird who has more scoring potential among your list.

[fatlever]

Considering Lance is basically our backup PG, perhaps his assist to turnover ratio should be compared vs other point guards, not other shooting guards who don't get the assist opportunities that Lance gets. He would rank #34 out of 49 qualified players in that regard.

[Bassman]

I certainly was a huge supporter of signing Lance. He was no sure thing, but appeared to have talent and skills that could be grown into a borderline star. I still think he posesses those skills. The problem seems to be in his head and his preparation.

Lance clearly got caught up in the hype and transition of his free agency courtship (to the degree there was any). I believe he created an image of himself as THE superstar of the Hornets before he ever arrived in camp. His off-season work was clearly put on the shelf while he did off-court activities and tended to his own priorities. He didn;t come into camp out of shape per se, but he did not have his game sharpened and ready to roll. Then, he hit major stumbles in meshing with his team, the groin injury, poor shooting, etc. It's a lot to deal with in a young guy who is not mature enough yet.

Trade him if the opportunity and value is good, but not to just dump the guy. Coaches and management need to work with this guy and influence his attitude, approach and habits. We talk about MJ mentoring players he wants to invest in; Lance needs mentoring and investment. If he won't accept it and change his results, move him.

For all I know this may all have already happened, or was attempted. I just know if Lance is not reachable, you'll have a tough time getting another team to kick the tires. Too much got out prior to the early trade talk, making Lance radioactive. Hopefully he's learning through this experience and (if back) will return focused and truly ready to play next season.

[gipper08]

Bird said. "When I'd go to practices, when he was on, he was by far our best player. And he worked. If you work as hard as he does, you're going to get better."

Bird this summer on Lance. Bird said several time the last three years that Lance was their "best" (no. not potentially best) but best player.

I am saying he has potential. If you don't see it then why waste your time debating Lance Stephenson? You could be getting more.

[gipper08]

Considering Lance is basically our backup PG, perhaps his assist to turnover ratio should be compared vs other point guards, not other shooting guards who don't get the assist opportunities that Lance gets. He would rank #34 out of 49 qualified players in that regard.

Well he has ONLY been back up PG since returning which according to many of you is when he has been TO prone. So lets keep him at the 2, remove his games since returning at the "one" and he is even higher on the list for ratio. Really only the DEN was he out there much without Roberts and other times w/o Roberts has not Neal been bringing it up? ...nice try.(I missed the last game)

He is a two guard and he leads the league in assist to TO among twos who average 5 asst or more.

[mrknowitall215]

I can't say much about Lance Stephenson but that I'm disappointed that he's regressed from the middling player with all-around talents that he already was. I never was high on his potential, but I thought that he could be better than Henderson for us, and I'll openly admit that I was very wrong

as a side note, this is probably Henderson's best year ever

I personally liked Henderson the previously two seasons more than this current Henderson, but the difference is that Stephenson has been so bad that it make Henderson more acceptable. I would have to check the stats, but I'm willing to bet that Henderson may have played better statistically in those seasons as well

[yosemiteben]

I did not say he is a terrible coach because he did not give Lance the offense.most coaches would not. (though Lance with the ball and Kemba off it would get you to the second round at least)...

Don't feel compelled to respond to all that, but you pretty much lost me already at the parenthetical here. You whined about Lance being a poor shooter because he did not have enough freedom, and then argued that he is an elite catch and shoot shooter. Now you want him to completely run the offense, something he's never done and would preclude him from having catch and shoot opportunities.

We are not going anywhere with Lance playing big minutes if he doesn't figure out how to shoot and defend. You yourself said he is playing like crap. Now you're saying that if we just handed him the ball we'd be assured to get past the first round of the playoffs.

Seriously, Lance...is that you?

We really don't need him to do that much to be successful. Play solid D, create opportunities without turning the ball over, play within the flow of the offense and have league average efficiency on his shooting.

[fatlever]

the most scoring potential in Hornet history(except Zos best year), is that good for you?

Um....

Larry Johnson
Baron Davis
Jamal Mashburn
Eddie Jones
Kelly Tripucka
Kendall Gill
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Kemba Walker
Al Jefferson

those are just the obvious guys who had more "scoring potential" as a Hornet/Bobcat

you could also add guys like...

Rex Chapman
Ricky Davis
Derrick Coleman
Dell Curry

We are talking potential here right? Harold Miner had more scoring potential than Stockton but I am pretty sure stockton scored more. lol.

Ask Larry bird who has more scoring potential among your list.

just so we are clear, can you specifically tell me which guys on my list you think had less scoring potential than Lance Stephenson when they were in their mid 20s?

[yosemiteben]

I am saying he has potential. If you don't see it then why waste your time debating Lance Stephenson? You could be getting more.

Speaking for myself, I do see potential. I also see a guy that is and has been pretty useless this year when we play good teams. I'm not going to say that he should get a pass based on what he did last year. He needs to prove that he can buy in to what we have going on here.