Alex Len and his future

[MrMiyagi]

If Len got more minutes, he could be putting up Hassan Whiteside type numbers. He has Whiteside type potential.

I think you're underselling Len here. His potential is much higher than Whiteside, IMO - especially offensively.

Maybe but I feel like your underrating Whiteside a little bit. Other than Davis & Cousins, not sure there's a better 25 & younger big man in the league right now than Whiteside.

According to the logic of this message board, if you're 25 years old, you've reached maximum potential (see Morrii). Also you have to have NBA game experience in order to improve playing time (see Tyler, TJ, Archie). I think it's safe to say Whiteside disproves both of those theories, so I hope everyone around he can stop with the sky is falling logic. End of tangent.

Whiteside and Len are both good young centers. I think it's fair to say they are in equal standing. I don't think the Heat or the Suns would trade them for each other. As for better 25 & under bigs than Whiteside, I'd add Drummond, Vucevic, Ibaka, Griffin. Maybe Favors. I'd put Whiteside in the Dieng/Valanciunas/Len/Noel/Gobert/etc. category. They've got potential and they're pretty good, but they've still got a ways to go.

[Revived]

I think you're underselling Len here. His potential is much higher than Whiteside, IMO - especially offensively.

Maybe but I feel like your underrating Whiteside a little bit. Other than Davis & Cousins, not sure there's a better 25 & younger big man in the league right now than Whiteside.

According to the logic of this message board, if you're 25 years old, you've reached maximum potential (see Morrii). Also you have to have NBA game experience in order to improve playing time (see Tyler, TJ, Archie). I think it's safe to say Whiteside disproves both of those theories, so I hope everyone around he can stop with the sky is falling logic. End of tangent.

Whiteside and Len are both good young centers. I think it's fair to say they are in equal standing. I don't think the Heat or the Suns would trade them for each other. As for better 25 & under bigs than Whiteside, I'd add Drummond, Vucevic, Ibaka, Griffin. Maybe Favors. I'd put White-side in the Dieng/Valanciunas/Len/Noel/Gobert/etc. category. They've got potential and they're pretty good, but they've still got a ways to go.

All those guys probably have a higher ceiling but I was talking about right now. Right now, I'll take Whiteside over all those guys. 2-4 years from now maybe not.

[MrMiyagi]

Maybe but I feel like your underrating Whiteside a little bit. Other than Davis & Cousins, not sure there's a better 25 & younger big man in the league right now than Whiteside.

According to the logic of this message board, if you're 25 years old, you've reached maximum potential (see Morrii). Also you have to have NBA game experience in order to improve playing time (see Tyler, TJ, Archie). I think it's safe to say Whiteside disproves both of those theories, so I hope everyone around he can stop with the sky is falling logic. End of tangent.

Whiteside and Len are both good young centers. I think it's fair to say they are in equal standing. I don't think the Heat or the Suns would trade them for each other. As for better 25 & under bigs than Whiteside, I'd add Drummond, Vucevic, Ibaka, Griffin. Maybe Favors. I'd put White-side in the Dieng/Valanciunas/Len/Noel/Gobert/etc. category. They've got potential and they're pretty good, but they've still got a ways to go.

All those guys probably have a higher ceiling but I was talking about right now. Right now, I'll take Whiteside over all those guys. 2-4 years from now maybe not.

Over all the underlined guys? I think you just like him way more than most people.

[Revived]

White with 12 shot attempts today...I wonder if Len is even allowed to have double digit shot attempts.

[In Len We Trust]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

[batsmasher]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

I agree with you and to be honest, it probably comes down to reputation. There are too many guys on this team with a bigger reputation that need their handful of shots every game. This team has emphasised team chemistry since day 1 so Horny probably doesn't have the cojones to risk hurting that.

[Midnight_Suns]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

I agree with you and to be honest, it probably comes down to reputation. There are too many guys on this team with a bigger reputation that need their handful of shots every game. This team has emphasised team chemistry since day 1 so Horny probably doesn't have the cojones to risk hurting that.

If Hornacek emphasized team chemistry he would make sure the ball moved and the starting big man was included on both ends of the floor.

It is his lack of "cojones" that enables the type of basketball the Suns play. We need a coach that can control their team, especially a young and hot-headed one like ours.

Also, his complete disregard for our promising young players has me all but calling for his termination as coach. It is completely contradictory of our front office's "focus on the future".

/rant

[In Len We Trust]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

I agree with you and to be honest, it probably comes down to reputation. There are too many guys on this team with a bigger reputation that need their handful of shots every game. This team has emphasised team chemistry since day 1 so Horny probably doesn't have the cojones to risk hurting that.

If Hornacek emphasized team chemistry he would make sure the ball moved and the starting big man was included on both ends of the floor.

It is his lack of "cojones" that enables the type of basketball the Suns play. We need a coach that can control their team, especially a young and hot-headed one like ours.

Mike Malone or George Karl would be awesome.

[bwgood77]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

I agree he needs to get the ball more in the post, and I bet you anything Hornacek is telling people to get him the ball. I think it takes a while for them to develop the right chemistry and feel. It's frustrating to not see him get it more, but people will play within the flow and Len has to learn to get position. Some are just a little impatient.

Hornacek isn't as stupid as you guys seem to think.

And people talking about him not having the cojones or whatever, that's pretty much BS considering he made a point by benching guys who got techs. Guys who shouldn't have been benched. Of course you didn't like him doing that either, but you want him to be tough on them. Can't have it both ways.

[In Len We Trust]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

I agree he needs to get the ball more in the post, and I bet you anything Hornacek is telling people to get him the ball. I think it takes a while for them to develop the right chemistry and feel. It's frustrating to not see him get it more, but people will play within the flow and Len has to learn to get position. Some are just a little impatient.

Hornacek isn't as stupid as you guys seem to think.

And people talking about him not having the cojones or whatever, that's pretty much BS considering he made a point by benching guys who got techs. Guys who shouldn't have been benched. Of course you didn't like him doing that either, but you want him to be tough on them. Can't have it both ways.

You make good points but I completely disagree with you thinking Hornacek tells them to feed Len.

[bwgood77]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

I agree he needs to get the ball more in the post, and I bet you anything Hornacek is telling people to get him the ball. I think it takes a while for them to develop the right chemistry and feel. It's frustrating to not see him get it more, but people will play within the flow and Len has to learn to get position. Some are just a little impatient.

Hornacek isn't as stupid as you guys seem to think.

And people talking about him not having the cojones or whatever, that's pretty much BS considering he made a point by benching guys who got techs. Guys who shouldn't have been benched. Of course you didn't like him doing that either, but you want him to be tough on them. Can't have it both ways.

You make good points but I completely disagree with you thinking Hornacek tells them to feed Len.

Well it is probably more like "I want you to focus on ball movement and to get Len more involved in the game. Don't necessarily force it to him if it's not there, but you need to get him involved. Keep moving the ball, try to get him involved, and take a shot if you are wide open on a catch and shoot, unless you see an opportunity to create a better one with another pass."

(Create a better one would be passing to a guy who is wide open for a three, or whipping it to a wide open Len under the basket.)

[Midnight_Suns]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

I agree he needs to get the ball more in the post, and I bet you anything Hornacek is telling people to get him the ball. I think it takes a while for them to develop the right chemistry and feel. It's frustrating to not see him get it more, but people will play within the flow and Len has to learn to get position. Some are just a little impatient.

Hornacek isn't as stupid as you guys seem to think.

And people talking about him not having the cojones or whatever, that's pretty much BS considering he made a point by benching guys who got techs. Guys who shouldn't have been benched. Of course you didn't like him doing that either, but you want him to be tough on them. Can't have it both ways.

Not sure if you're referring to the last few posters or In Len specifically, but you're making generalizations.

I support the no tech rule because it's the one thing he's done to show some spine. Letting players that are ice cold chuck up shots all night and play isolation ball shows lack of control of his team. Good coaches do not tolerate that type of play.

[Revived]

I agree with you and to be honest, it probably comes down to reputation. There are too many guys on this team with a bigger reputation that need their handful of shots every game. This team has emphasised team chemistry since day 1 so Horny probably doesn't have the cojones to risk hurting that.

If Hornacek emphasized team chemistry he would make sure the ball moved and the starting big man was included on both ends of the floor.

It is his lack of "cojones" that enables the type of basketball the Suns play. We need a coach that can control their team, especially a young and hot-headed one like ours.

Mike Malone or George Karl would be awesome.

Mike Malone would improve our defense soooo much. Offense would take a hit but it should still be good enough.

[Midnight_Suns]

Offense wont change because the players do whatever the **** they want anyway

[bwgood77]

Not sure if you're referring to the last few posters or In Len specifically, but you're making generalizations.

I support the no tech rule because it's the one thing he's done to show some spine. Letting players that are ice cold chuck up shots all night and play isolation ball shows lack of control of his team. Good coaches do not tolerate that type of play.

I don't know if Hornacek loves iso play or not for sure. I don't think he really does and I think we had decent ball movement last year with the team and with the pick n roll with Frye and stuff, despite the team not having a ton of assists, but there are coaches who people consider great who have liked iso ball, whether it be Phil Jackson, Larry Brown or others.

I don't think he is coaching our team like the guy who wanted more cowbell. "I gotta tell you guys, we NEED MORE ISO!"

Unfortunately, our GM signed a heavy iso guy in the offseason and let our best pick n roll guy in Frye go (not that I think we necessarily should have signed him at that price).

[Midnight_Suns]

Not sure if you're referring to the last few posters or In Len specifically, but you're making generalizations.

I support the no tech rule because it's the one thing he's done to show some spine. Letting players that are ice cold chuck up shots all night and play isolation ball shows lack of control of his team. Good coaches do not tolerate that type of play.

I don't know if Hornacek loves iso play or not for sure. I don't think he really does and I think we had decent ball movement last year with the team and with the pick n roll with Frye and stuff, despite the team not having a ton of assists, but there are coaches who people consider great who have liked iso ball, whether it be Phil Jackson, Larry Brown or others.

I don't think he is coaching our team like the guy who wanted more cowbell. "I gotta tell you guys, we NEED MORE ISO!"

Unfortunately, our GM signed a heavy iso guy in the offseason and let our best pick n roll guy in Frye go (not that I think we necessarily should have signed him at that price).

If he doesn't like iso play and allows it to continue, then he is proving that our stance on his balls is correct

[bwgood77]

Not sure if you're referring to the last few posters or In Len specifically, but you're making generalizations.

I support the no tech rule because it's the one thing he's done to show some spine. Letting players that are ice cold chuck up shots all night and play isolation ball shows lack of control of his team. Good coaches do not tolerate that type of play.

I don't know if Hornacek loves iso play or not for sure. I don't think he really does and I think we had decent ball movement last year with the team and with the pick n roll with Frye and stuff, despite the team not having a ton of assists, but there are coaches who people consider great who have liked iso ball, whether it be Phil Jackson, Larry Brown or others.

I don't think he is coaching our team like the guy who wanted more cowbell. "I gotta tell you guys, we NEED MORE ISO!"

Unfortunately, our GM signed a heavy iso guy in the offseason and let our best pick n roll guy in Frye go (not that I think we necessarily should have signed him at that price).

If he doesn't like iso play and allows it to continue, then he is proving that our stance on his balls is correct

Well there may be other things in play like IT not listening and then the FO wanting him to get playing time to show trade value. Probably same reason Plumlee still gets any minutes. I imagine things will change after the trade deadline, whether it's a trade, or who gets limited playing time.

[Revived]

Len, 22, added significant bulk since last season to help endure the grind. This experience is immeasurable, especially going against the likes of Gasol.

"I told him he's got to teach me how to flop," Len said. "He gets that call every time. I'm not doing anything to snap his head back and he's getting every call. He's like, 'I gotcha.' "

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /22885961/

I hope Gasol taught him well

[rsavaj]

Hornacek isn't as stupid as you guys seem to think.

It's funny how this needs to be said.

He's not Pop, and he makes mistakes, but damn...you read the forum and you get the impression that some people think they understand what's going on with the team better than Horny does.

[suns91fan]

Alex Lens development is being by slowed by Hornacek and all the Suns players because they NEVER pass him the ball down low. Hell, even Miles Plumlee, an undescribably bad center gets the ball in the post. How does that make sense?

Len is very underrated in the low post. He has proven in small sample sizes that he can absolutely get off good shots from the post, and he has solid footwork and very nice touch around the basket. He could be averaging 15+ on a team that fed him the ball to be honest. I fully believe that

This is wrong on so many levels. I'm pretty sure Hornacek knows exactly what Len is capable of doing. His offense mostly consists of put backs, easy dunks/layups and midrange shots. If he is not getting ball in the post, then his post game is not good enough. Simple as that. Or you want to tell me that Hornacek is intentionally shooting himself in the foot by not getting more offensive touches for Len?

Also, you say how Len's development is being slowed, but later you say he could easily average 15+ ppg. If he could average that, then what development are we speaking of? Wouldn't 15+ ppg mean his offensive game is already developed?

Right now Len is playing to his strengths. And that's a good thing. Wasting possessions on something that player hasn't fully developed is not a luxury a competitive team can have. Even Al Jefferson (known for his offensive game) averaged just 8 and 5 in his sophomore season at age 21. Did that slow his development? No. He worked hard to achieve what he did. And same should go for Len.

From some posts here, someone uninformed would think that Len is Olajuwon himself. Hell, Olajuwon at 21 wasn't even in the NBA. He was still in college! Give it time, and trust people who work with him. They are experts after all.