GT: Hawks (39-8) vs 76ers (10-37)

[ATLHawksfan21]

You had Teague penned as a finished product two years ago. Why would you continue to try to predict his potential for growth when your prior track record has been so poor?

I'm not so sure my track record is quite as bad as you like to think. But I've noticed you have a really consistent tendency to play both sides of an argument and then take credit for being right...even when you contradict yourself in the process:

I don't see Ferry matching this one. Too many years and too many dollars when we just picked up Schroeder in the draft. I would rather sign Jennings on a 2 year deal and give Schroeder time to develop than invest 32 million in Teague over 4 years.

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Teague consistent? He has way too many games where he just cowers in the corner and looks like he doesn't even care to be on the court. He seems to lack confidence at times...I would much rather have a guy like Jennings, with supreme confidence, than a guy like Teague who can disappear in games.

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Teague's advanced stats have indeed improved, but I credit the improved offensive system, better more unselfish teammates, no Josh Smith as much as his undeniable growth. But the kid is a 17 & 7 guy. This 'best season of his life' isn't drastically better than the last couple of seasons under Bud and Drew. He's at his pinnacle right now...

I expected him to step up his game last year after AL went down and we needed him. What I've seen since then is that he is able to do it for short stretches, but over the long haul..he always comes down to earth and ereverts back to 17 & 7 Teague. An above average PG in a league filled with above average PGs.

Nah, the difference is I will change my opinion if the situation changes instead of sticking with the old theory that is now inaccurate. I was fed up with Teague's consistency issues along with every one else and then I saw him grow big time under his first year with a legit head coach. It's undeniable that Teague had outside circumstances that held him back in his first couple of years as a pro. I say good luck to any young PG if they are playing with JJ and Smith while being coached by someone who doesn't trust you. The fact is, Teague has improved each year as a pro.

You know your argument is weak when your only retort is to go dig up old quotes. Why don't you use those detective skills to dig up my posts predicting Teague to be an all-star this year and your responses saying no way in hell.

[theatlfan]

I think that because I am watching how below average a playmaker Schroder is and his numbers show that. There were QUESTIONS to if Teague could be a playmaker, and his stats showed that he could. Again, I'm fine if people want to believe that Schroder is going to become a consistent and above average playmaker, but I am not fine with people pretending he is ahead of the Teague curve when everyone is free to check out the advanced stats to see that's not true. I can care less what scouts say, because, again, they saw a guy built like Rondo that throws flashy passes(in between alot of turnovers and passes to peoples ankles and over dribbling) and said "He is going to be a great playmaker." I will be happy to be wrong, but while others see "star" I see Lou Williams with defense as his ceiling.

Sorry I missed this yesterday...

First, sure, Schröder's body type has something to do with his inclusion on scout's radar, but they aren't so superficial as for that to be the only thing that got him into the 1st round. There are plenty of guys who have elite athletic ability who go undrafted. The difference with Schröder was that he went to some combine (the one for Euros that is in the US... maybe the Nike Hoop Summit?) and absolutely dominated. Look like a 10 year pro running the PNR on O and was lockdown on D. IIRC, he went against the PG of the Harrison twins and made him look so silly that they had to sub him out then Schröder took the next guy to task as well. I think the US team even had to completely change how they played D due to whenever Schröder was in the game. His leadership abilities were also praised as he was one of, if not the, youngest player at the camp and immediately became the guy the others looked to. He basically went from a late 2nd / undrafted player to mid-1st based on this one showing alone - a showing that was on the court and 5-on-5 btw, not one of those "one on none" showings that are typical of the pre-draft process.

Second, I still don't know what "advanced stats" you're referring to. I currently have 3 sites up with Basic, Per-Minute, Pre-Minute Pace Adjusted, Ast%, Usg%, Passing ratios, Passing Rating, and location of assist. Everything I looking at supports what my eye-balls see and memory recalls:
-Y1 Schröder was terrible overall. There was a reason he was benched and that is every piece of his game was garbage including his passing. Sure, he might have had a few stints and/or games that impressed, but the early returns said "bust".
-Y1 Teague's playmaking was average to a tick above but it was more than a bit surprising considering his scouting reports coming into the draft. He proved he wasn't strictly a scoring combo G but could conceivably run the point. It was in limited minutes to be sure and it was the last year of Woodson, but it was an impressive showing nonetheless.
- Y2 Schröder is putting up good to very good assist numbers. He makes mistakes though and his TOs are a bit high - even when passing, but otherwise has shown the ability to find "good assists" (3's and close/dunks) more times than not. (Aside here: I actually argued that we should trade him before the season since I thought that he wouldn't progress for Bud since he hadn't cleaned up the TOs. It wasn't that Schröder surprised me as much as Coach Bud did with his willingness to swallow the mistakes for the rest of his game to develop so I have to give Coach Bud another round of kudos here.)
- Y2 Teague fell back to earth as his passing stats fell back to below average to poor. This made us question whether the passing he showed in Y1 was something that was actually there or just a SSS mirage. Even though he took care of the ball better than Schröder does, he was still average to a bit below there as well. I should note that these numbers stayed consistent at this below average state through Y3 (his 1st year as starter) before he saw a nice jump in Y4 (the last under LD) which carried though last season and he's seen another big jump this year as well.

So, comparing the seasons here strictly in terms of passing (from best to worst):
- Y2 Schröder
- Y1 Teague
- Y2 Teague
- Y1 Schröder

The fact that a) Schröder has clearly the best season passing and b) Teague actually regressed from Y1 to Y2 is what does it for me in saying that I see it as clear that Schröder is showing more potential in the passing game than Teague did in those 1st two seasons.