Offseason Poll: Knight or Middleton?

jakecronus8 · Post #1 » by **jakecronus8** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:27 pm

I know there's a bazillion Knight arguments and a very good Middleton thread but just wondering where everyone stands. Pick one and state your reasoning why you keep them over the other, assuming neither is traded this year. Forget the lets keep both arguments in this thread. If you can only have one who is it?

I'm going Middleton for a few reasons. I think they are both shooting guards going forward and Middleton has ideal size at that position. He's also shown the willingness and ability to play off the ball and doesn't need a ton of touches to affect the game. He's not as athletic but has shown to be a better defender than Knight this season. It appears he's going to be cheaper as well. The biggest reason though, is our two highest usage players going forward need to be Giannis and Jabari. Knight has always been a ball dominant player and nothing to this point leads me to believe he'll be anything but that.

trwi7 · Post #2 » by **trwi7** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:28 pm

I'm considering creating new accounts so I can vote for Middleton more than once.

The Wet Whistle · Post #3 » by **The Wet Whistle** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:29 pm

Middleton. And it's not an anti-Knight stance either, rather a very much pro-Middleton. I absolutely love what's he's doing for us this year and I think he will be a great fit next to Giannis/Jabari long term.

LUKE23 · Post #4 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:31 pm

Middleton, reasons are simple:

1. He requires less usage than Knight, and Giannis/Parker as they develop will be our high usage/isolation players.
2. Better defender than Knight at SG, unarguably.
3. Will cost $3M+ per year less than Knight.
4. He doesn't require the ball in his hands to be effective, and we will turn the ball over less as an entire starting five with him at SG.
5. Middleton is developing into a top 3-5 NBA sniper.

crkone · Post #5 » by **crkone** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:34 pm

Is this even a question? I'd have to assume that anyone who votes for Knight is trolling. Middleton is a potent 3 and D who can fit into any lineup, unlike Knight who needs to have certain players in the lineup to fit his style. Middleton even has room to expand his play if he ever learns how to dribble in traffic without freaking out. Now the Bucks just needs to draft the PG version of Middleton.

M-C-G · Post #6 » by **M-C-G** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:49 pm

Well that certainly didn't take long for people that might side with Knight to be accused of being trolls...classy.

Wasn't all that long ago, Middleton was a throw in deals for a lot of you around here...I could see another scenario where he struggles for 2 weeks and people are ready to move him salary cap relief. I'm joking, but I'm not with the way the tide turns around here.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you project the two going forward. That said, if both keep up their play at the end of the season, I probably go with Middleton for many of the reasons explained above.

If Middleton slows down his shooting, and Knight demonstrates he can move the ball better, which I think he has shown flashes of over the last couple of weeks, I'd probably side with him. I still think his usage is going to decrease as Parker and Giannis increase, and if he can be a good spot up shooter, and then pure scoring guard when Parker and Giannis are on the bench that is pretty damn useful and more versatile than Middleton can give you.

Lots of ifs here. Also this would be nice if Knight supporters don't get slammed for having a different opinion outside of the anti Knight crowd.

nick27npb · Post #7 » by **nick27npb** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:54 pm

I want both, but if I had to pick one it's Knight for sure. He's the better player now and will be the better player in the future. And let all the Knight hate begin......

Treebeard · Post #8 » by **Treebeard** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:57 pm

The Wet Whistle wrote:Middleton. And it's not an anti-Knight stance either, rather a very much pro-Middleton. I absolutely love what's he's doing for us this year and I think he will be a great fit next to Giannis/Jabari long term.

Knight is a very good and improving player, but i think his price tag is going to be notably higher than Middleton's. If both guys continue on their current arc, then I think Middleton is the better value in the long run. Also, I think the overall fit will be better with Middleton.

There's still half the regular season to go, so unexpected events could change that outlook certainly.

Badgerlander · Post #9 » by **Badgerlander** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:01 pm

So Middleton gets Alec Burks money 4/42 and Knight gets Isaiah Thomas money 4/28?

Post #10 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:07 pm

Middleton---he has a defined position.

ampd · Post #11 » by **ampd** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:08 pm

I don't think you can go wrong with either one honestly.

I'd make the decision about keeping either or both by the amount of $$$$$$$ its going to cost, and what role we see them in though.

If you see either of them as a 6th man on our team in the future (I don't) then sell now, playing them in that role is likely to decrease their value in the future.

The question with Middleton to me is, can he do what he did against the Raptors and toward the end of last season on a consistent basis while maintaining his consistency and effort on defense? We really need to find out what we have in him in that regard. Can he shoulder a higher amount of usage in a more Rip Hamilton like role scoring from the post, off screens and curls? If he can then he's hugely more valuable than he is as a 3+D spot up shooter, and we have seen some signs that he can.

Knight is more of a swing for the fences pick, in that you'd be betting on some improvements to his game (although not drastic ones). Taking Knight would be a bet on his work ethic overcoming his shortcomings with turnovers under our coaching staff. Knight has been much better in the last 20ish games in terms of team impact than he was early on, so there are some signs he's figuring things out, and our starters have fared much better against opposing starters in that time. However that's about when we started playing Middleton in the starting lineup as well.

If the price is right I keep both, otherwise it comes down to what role we see these guys playing and how much money it costs.

All things being equal, I keep Knight. His 'ceiling' is higher, he has the ability to score efficiently off the dribble, and I think teams like ATL and SAS have shown you can cycle in spot up shooters in that role and get production out of them without handing out huge contracts. Guys like Dudley, Demarre Carroll, Danny Green, Marco Bellineli, etc.

LUKE23 · Post #12 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:10 pm

The issue is Knight can't play PG and Middleton is a better SG. So even if you don't play him in it, sixth man is where he helps the team the most. What do you pay him in that role and still get value?

ampd · Post #13 » by **ampd** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:13 pm

LUKE23 wrote:The issue is Knight can't play PG and Middleton is a better SG. So even if you don't play him in it, sixth man is where he helps the team the most. What do you pay him in that role and still get value?

Right, if you consider Knight a 6th man or purely a SG then the decision is easy. For me the jury is still out on that though.

LUKE23 · Post #14 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:14 pm

Well, not to be rude, but how can anyone still want him at PG?

ampd · Post #15 » by **ampd** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:16 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Well, not to be rude, but how can anyone still want him at PG?

I want him at PG the same way Mario Chalmers is a PG

Or if you want a less role playerey comparison, in the same way a guy like Lillard is a PG, or Kyrie is a PG. Those guys aren't amazing pick and roll passers, but they play within the offense (in the way a player like that can) and they do what they do well efficiently. I think that's exactly what we're evolving Knight into doing, and why more and more of the offense has gone away from his ball pounding as we've put Giannis, Middleton, and Dudley in the lineup with him.

I don't think anyone wants him dribbling around pretending he's Steve Nash.

I think this whole argument will be moot anyway, since the most likely scenario is keeping both.

smauss · Post #16 » by **smauss** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:24 pm

Middleton. Couldn't have said it any better than Luke did already. Bottom line is I don't want Knight at the 1 and Middleton is a better option at the 2.

crkone · Post #17 » by **crkone** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:35 pm

M-C-G wrote:Well that certainly didn't take long for people that might side with Knight to be accused of being trolls...classy.

Wasn't all that long ago, Middleton was a throw in deals for a lot of you around here...I could see another scenario where he struggles for 2 weeks and people are ready to move him salary cap relief. I'm joking, but I'm not with the way the tide turns around here.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you project the two going forward. That said, if both keep up their play at the end of the season, I probably go with Middleton for many of the reasons explained above.

If Middleton slows down his shooting, and Knight demonstrates he can move the ball better, which I think he has shown flashes of over the last couple of weeks, I'd probably side with him. I still think his usage is going to decrease as Parker and Giannis increase, and if he can be a good spot up shooter, and then pure scoring guard when Parker and Giannis are on the bench that is pretty damn useful and more versatile than Middleton can give you.

Lots of ifs here. Also this would be nice if Knight supporters don't get slammed for having a different opinion outside of the anti Knight crowd.

Well by the already overwhelming % in Middleton's favor, I am correct that only trolls will vote for Knight. This is an either or question, and a dumb question to begin with. You can be a Knight supporter, I am to a certain extent, and believe that "Knight or Middleton" is a ridiculous question.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #18 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:41 pm

you can keep your legs but no more sex..... or tons of sex in a wheelchair.

which is it?

I love questions like this. so fun.

75totheMACCfund · Post #19 » by **75totheMACCfund** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:42 pm

I'd choose Knight if he was 3 inches taller. But he's not. Simple as that.

M-C-G · Post #20 » by **M-C-G** » Wed Feb 4, 2015 9:43 pm

crkone wrote:
M-C-G wrote:Well that certainly didn't take long for people that might side with Knight to be accused of being trolls...classy.

Wasn't all that long ago, Middleton was a throw in deals for a lot of you around here...I could see another scenario where he struggles for 2 weeks and people are ready to move him salary cap relief. I'm joking, but I'm not with the way the tide turns around here.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you project the two going forward. That said, if both keep up their play at the end of the season, I probably go with Middleton for many of the reasons explained above.

If Middleton slows down his shooting, and Knight demonstrates he can move the ball better, which I think he has shown flashes of over the last couple of weeks, I'd probably side with him. I still think his usage is going to decrease as Parker and Giannis increase, and if he can be a good spot up shooter, and then pure scoring guard when Parker and Giannis are on the bench that is pretty damn useful and more versatile than Middleton can give you.

Lots of ifs here. Also this would be nice if Knight supporters don't get slammed for having a different opinion outside of the anti Knight crowd.

Well by the already overwhelming % in Middleton's favor, I am correct that only trolls will vote for Knight.

Yeah. Cool.

Pick One