Offseason Poll: Knight or Middleton?

[aValpo]

The whole "trade Knight" notion reminds me of fans demanding a magical trade on draft night to get another first rounder. Or the whole sign Eric Bledsoe campaign over the off season. And, of course, people talked themselves into the notion that these scenarios were possible and got upset when they obviously didn't happen.

[Aaron It Out]

I've come around on Knight, at least to the point where I wouldn't jump off of a cliff if we signed him. But this one is Middleton and it's not very close for me.

[Balls2TheWalls]

Middleton. Not close.

[tyland]

As far as I am concerned, our core going forward is:

PG: ?
SG: Middleton
SF: Giannis
PF: Parker
C: ?

With the current pieces in play, I would love a traditional PG. Someone like Rubio would be amazing. We need someone who can facilitate and defend.

Sanders pre-breakdown was probably close to ideal at the 5. This will be a hard position to fill.

[Dick Tate]

It's critical that the team has this figured out before the deadline. Decide who's staying and who's not and try to get an asset(s) for anyone you don't plan to keep. This is when a GM earns his paycheck.

Not necessarily. Waiting out Jennings turned out to be one of Hammond's best moves ever.

[crkone]

Well that certainly didn't take long for people that might side with Knight to be accused of being trolls...classy.

Wasn't all that long ago, Middleton was a throw in deals for a lot of you around here...I could see another scenario where he struggles for 2 weeks and people are ready to move him salary cap relief. I'm joking, but I'm not with the way the tide turns around here.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you project the two going forward. That said, if both keep up their play at the end of the season, I probably go with Middleton for many of the reasons explained above.

If Middleton slows down his shooting, and Knight demonstrates he can move the ball better, which I think he has shown flashes of over the last couple of weeks, I'd probably side with him. I still think his usage is going to decrease as Parker and Giannis increase, and if he can be a good spot up shooter, and then pure scoring guard when Parker and Giannis are on the bench that is pretty damn useful and more versatile than Middleton can give you.

Lots of ifs here. Also this would be nice if Knight supporters don't get slammed for having a different opinion outside of the anti Knight crowd.

Well by the already overwhelming % in Middleton's favor, I am correct that only trolls will vote for Knight. This is an either or question, and a dumb question to begin with. You can be a Knight supporter, I am to a certain extent, and believe that "Knight or Middleton" is a ridiculous question.

Don't dance around what you want to say: "only stupid people will choose knight in this comparison". Because to believe people are actually trolling by choosing knight you'd have to think that the people making that choice are only doing so with the sole intent of annoying posters who aren't huge knight fans.

And fwiw, it's impossible for this to be a 'dumb' question because of the variables in play here. We don't know how much either guy is going to cost and when it truly comes down to it, price is the main determinant in this comparison because neither player is THAT good. If I say Middleton for 9m per or knight for the max then it's easy right? Khris all day. But what if it's knight for 7m per vs 12m for khris? Suddenly it's not such an easy decision.

Please don't put words in my mouth. Of course there will always be illogical fans (Knight's super fans in this case) that can be discounted with the standard deviation. If Knight was to get $7 mil and Middleton $12 mil I would 100% get Middleton. I don't need to list the multitude of facts that have been debated about the last two years in regards to Knight and his lack of PG ability and the surplus of serviceable PGs. Simple fact is that Knight makes every team worse when he plays. He is the Gooden of PGs, easily replaceable.

[RW23]

I think the timing of this post is having a significant effect on the poll results.

I'm not saying Middleton can't prove to be a great shooter consistently going forward. But with how hot he's been over the past 5-10 games, I think the groupthink around here lately is dangerous in these kind of debates.

[Jez2983]

you can keep your legs but no more sex..... or tons of sex in a wheelchair.

which is it?

I love questions like this. so fun.

Follow up question: do I have sensation from the waist down in the wheelchair?

If I do, no brainer - tons of wheelchair sex. I will have a legitimate reason to put in minimal effort.

[Jez2983]

I think the timing of this post is having a significant effect on the poll results.

I'm not saying Middleton can't prove to be a great shooter consistently going forward. But with how hot he's been over the past 5-10 games, I think the groupthink around here lately is dangerous in these kind of debates.

Is your avatar of Giannis playing with a toy truck? That's brilliant!

[blazza18]

I think the timing of this post is having a significant effect on the poll results.

I'm not saying Middleton can't prove to be a great shooter consistently going forward. But with how hot he's been over the past 5-10 games, I think the groupthink around here lately is dangerous in these kind of debates.

Middleton's proven to be a great shooter the last 120+ games. This isn't a mirage.

[Newz]

If Middleton can keep it up he is pretty much the ideal role player. He can stretch the floor, he can create a little off the bounce and he can play at least decent defense. That's a piece worth keeping around. Not only do I think he's just a better player than Knight, I also think he's an easier 2-guard to pair a PG with. Middleton can be good at the shooting guard spot with any point guard. Middleton isn't undersized, he can play off the ball and he can defend. I also think Middleton will be cheaper.

Knight, in my opinion, is also a 2-guard... and is actually a pretty damn good one if he is willing to accept that role (or the role of a sixth man). The problem with Knight is that I think he'll be more expensive, he may not accept a non-PG role (and if he's playing PG, he isn't worth the money) and it's incredibly difficult to find a guy to pair with him that would be effective. It is difficult to find a big PG who can handle, pass the ball well and play above average defense on both guard positions. I know he wasn't a special player or anything, but Eric Snow would have been a good fit... and guys like him don't come along often because there just aren't many 6'4'"-6'6" guys who can do an effective job running the point while doing the other things we would need from them.

My vote goes to Middleton and it isn't close.

That being said I think we bring both of them back. I think our organization views Knight as the PG of the future and Middleton as the SG/6th Man of the future.

[RW23]

I think the timing of this post is having a significant effect on the poll results.

I'm not saying Middleton can't prove to be a great shooter consistently going forward. But with how hot he's been over the past 5-10 games, I think the groupthink around here lately is dangerous in these kind of debates.

Is your avatar of Giannis playing with a toy truck? That's brilliant!

Haha yes, yes it is. It's from the video on his youtube channel where he battles his brother. It was just too adorable.

[RW23]

I think the timing of this post is having a significant effect on the poll results.

I'm not saying Middleton can't prove to be a great shooter consistently going forward. But with how hot he's been over the past 5-10 games, I think the groupthink around here lately is dangerous in these kind of debates.

Middleton's proven to be a great shooter the last 120+ games. This isn't a mirage.

Of course, and I think he'll continue to do so. I'm just saying, if this was posted during a slump for him (the earlier part of this season for example), I think a lot of people are having a different conversation.

[Frank Nova]

This is crazy tough. I realize the premise of the thread is to choose 1 although it's very likely imo that both are retained as RFA's this off season. Don't see anyone loading up on Middleton and don't see us not matching whatever deal Knight signs elsewhere if it even gets to that. I look at Wes Matthews to Portland as the measuring stick for Middleton. Everyone thought Portland was crazy and Utah was smart for not matching and it couldn't have been anymore opposite. I think Middleton settles around 6/7 per for 4/5 years and we lock that up quick fast and in a hurry. im still not sure about knight, he replaces Wade as an all star and we could be looking a a 4/44 type offer sheet he gets. I still match but hesitate and weigh options elsewhere but cave in forsure.

I'm all about chemistry and keeping this team together. Id willingly overpay Knight a bit to keep him here factoring age and his current status as Milwaukee star power (closest thing on the team to an Allstar hands down).

With all that being said Id have to choose Knight over Middleton to keep if I could only choose 1. I'm all about star power in this league and u need it bad to be taken seriously and Knight > Middleton in those regards.

There isn't a team we will face the rest of this year that will particularly game plan to slow down Khris Middleton when Knight is every opponents main focus. Id love more than anything to see how Middleton played in that role instead of Knight and Id be willing to be his efficiency would come back to earth and his turnovers and poor decision making would increase even if just slightly. It's a guarantee to happen regardless of what anyone says.

Knight gets ran through the ringer around here pretty bad and sometimes it's warranted and sometimes it's blatantly unwarranted but I've never seen once anyone comment on how Knight handles the pressure as the go to player and the main player every team tries to stop and gameplans for. He only leads the team in Points, Assists and Steals against said opposition... Is that really something ppl can blantantly overlook and feel reasonable about? I sure as heck don't believe so.

I'm not even some crazy Knight supporter that thinks he's Allen Iverson but the roles Knight and Middleton play are so freaking different there's a reason this conversation is for fun and has no substance. We've never seen what Middleton can produce in a major/larger role and against teams very focused on not letting him specifically get going. We've seen Knight in that role and we've seen him drastically improve...

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Knight's never shown the willingness or ability to play the kind of role that even his supporters here think he's best suited for.

id like to hear what his supporters believe this role is supposed to be. I haven't heard that clearly defined myself.

I think most of his supporters are in general far less worried about his evolution than his detractors. personally I believe that as the team ages and more talent is developed....his usage will drop. I don't think its that complicated honestly.

And what people have reservations with is paying him to fill this lower-usage role that he has yet to show ability or willingness to play. I think you understood that and just wanted to get some snark in.

no snark from me. ive heard his "supporters" claim he is fine as an attacking pg in the lillard/irving role. ive heard lower usage off ball pg in the chalmers/fisher role. ive heard 2 guard scorer off the point completely. ive heard 2 pg offense. there hasn't been anything defined that's agreed upon quite frankly.

personally im not 100% sure which of those roles suits him, or us long term. i do think he needs to try and do less.... so the usage needs to come down. beyond that i haven't figured it out. but I do think hes talented. I definitely want him around. the team looks good. and im going to have fun watching it all evolve. its not complicated unless youre playing mind games over it... and the notion we need to figure all this stuff out right this minute seems bizarre to me.

[MiltownHawkeye]

id like to hear what his supporters believe this role is supposed to be. I haven't heard that clearly defined myself.

I think most of his supporters are in general far less worried about his evolution than his detractors. personally I believe that as the team ages and more talent is developed....his usage will drop. I don't think its that complicated honestly.

And what people have reservations with is paying him to fill this lower-usage role that he has yet to show ability or willingness to play. I think you understood that and just wanted to get some snark in.

no snark from me. ive heard his "supporters" claim he is fine as an attacking pg in the lillard/irving role. ive heard lower usage off ball pg in the chalmers/fisher role. ive heard 2 guard scorer off the point completely. ive heard 2 pg offense. there hasn't been anything defined that's agreed upon quite frankly.

personally im not 100% sure which of those roles suits him, or us long term. i do think he needs to try and do less.... so the usage needs to come down. beyond that i haven't figured it out. but I do think hes talented. I definitely want him around. the team looks good. and im going to have fun watching it all evolve. its not complicated unless youre playing mind games over it... and the notion we need to figure all this stuff out right this minute seems bizarre to me.

Uh...the problem is that we DO need to figure all this stuff out right this minute, considering that the deadline is less than 2 weeks away and he's about the be an RFA. If he's not going to be a part of our future at a price befitting of his role and abilities, we need to shop him. I have no idea where you're coming from with that one.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

And what people have reservations with is paying him to fill this lower-usage role that he has yet to show ability or willingness to play. I think you understood that and just wanted to get some snark in.

no snark from me. ive heard his "supporters" claim he is fine as an attacking pg in the lillard/irving role. ive heard lower usage off ball pg in the chalmers/fisher role. ive heard 2 guard scorer off the point completely. ive heard 2 pg offense. there hasn't been anything defined that's agreed upon quite frankly.

personally im not 100% sure which of those roles suits him, or us long term. i do think he needs to try and do less.... so the usage needs to come down. beyond that i haven't figured it out. but I do think hes talented. I definitely want him around. the team looks good. and im going to have fun watching it all evolve. its not complicated unless youre playing mind games over it... and the notion we need to figure all this stuff out right this minute seems bizarre to me.

Uh...the problem is that we DO need to figure all this stuff out right this minute, considering that the deadline is less than 2 weeks away and he's about the be an RFA. If he's not going to be a part of our future at a price befitting of his role and abilities, we need to shop him. I have no idea where you're coming from with that one.

guys get paid on talent and impact. the idea we wouldn't pay him because we don't know how all these extremely young pieces are gonna fit together over the next 4-5 years is crazy. quit worrying about depth charts all the time. hes a talented 30+ minute a night player for the next decade. theres no problem here.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

It's critical that the team has this figured out before the deadline. Decide who's staying and who's not and try to get an asset(s) for anyone you don't plan to keep. This is when a GM earns his paycheck.

Not necessarily. Waiting out Jennings turned out to be one of Hammond's best moves ever.

right... but these guys like the okc model. that means we move him for a package of cant miss upside like they did harden

[CannondaleF400]

On this board if the poll was Knight or "eat a plate of hot garbage", Knight would lose.

[eagle13]

Middleton for skill set and height and versatility - heck he can even play PF for a few mpg and hold his own. But I respect Knight more than a lot on here.

But its a moot question as FO has already said Knight will get a deal done. And I'm sure they like Khris enough to keep him also.

The way I approach them is they are both primarily SGs who each play SG 24 mg - starting whoever is the better matchup that game and fill out there PT with 6 to 12 mpg as backup PG and backup SF. Both play 30-36 mpg.

I think its great Bucks are winning. I'll drink the kool-aid and ride this season out with current class knowing in off season FO will resign both and then trade all our other SGs - Mayo Bayless Dudley who have value as both well regarded contributors with expiring contracts. At this year's deadline I make a trade to add a big and then roll - maybe something like these

Ersan & lac's 1st to POR for Leonard & Robinson & 2nd
Ersan & lac's 1st to UT for Kanter & 2nd
Ersan & lac's 1st Zaza Dudley to NETS for Lopez