Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

[raferfenix]

How do we think the Bucks really view John Henson's future?

If we think he is our long term starter than that would change whether we would want to go after Kanter or the like. Maybe we want a bigger back up PF to compliment him even, not to mention prioritizing a PG who can run the break.

On the flipside we may think he would be at his best here as an energy sub off the bench to run the court and put some points on the board. ZaZa would then be considered a 3rd string center and might be more valuable in trade than to us moving forward as well.

Or maybe Henson is more valuable to teams who have a burly PF to start next to him, and he is the one whose trade value we leverage.

However which way I don't think we deal him unless we are getting a long term starter at the PG or center spots. This also comes in the context of whether our front office really wants to commit to Middleton and Knight, as if they aren't sure about Henson starting long term at the 5, he might be the one to move otherwise.

[Giannis Parker]

How do we think the Bucks really view John Henson's future?

If we think he is our long term starter than that would change whether we would want to go after Kanter or the like. Maybe we want a bigger back up PF to compliment him even, not to mention prioritizing a PG who can run the break.

On the flipside we may think he would be at his best here as an energy sub off the bench to run the court and put some points on the board. ZaZa would then be considered a 3rd string center and might be more valuable in trade than to us moving forward as well.

Or maybe Henson is more valuable to teams who have a burly PF to start next to him, and he is the one whose trade value we leverage.

However which way I don't think we deal him unless we are getting a long term starter at the PG or center spots. This also comes in the context of whether our front office really wants to commit to Middleton and Knight, as if they aren't sure about Henson starting long term at the 5, he might be the one to move otherwise.

Right now we view Knight, Middleton, Parker, Giannis, and Henson as our starting 5 next year, and all part of the core. But that does not mean that is the plan of the future either. LED are always going to look for upgrades at each slot, continuing to try and improve our team for the future.

Knight and Giannis are perfect fits in Kidds system as they are both well rounded overall players who can do many things on the floor. This is also why Zaza performs so well. Right now, Parker would not really fit well with this system, but neither did Middleton at the start of the season, and look at him now.

At first Knight did not do well in the system either, but over the last 15 games he has really blossomed as more of a distributing PG. He still needs to work on his turnovers, but he is playing as more of a facilitator than ever before, and it is leading to our team playing much better. But not because of his facilitating, but because of his dual threat. Knight is currently a nightmare for teams to cover because if you play the shot, he has been hitting the open man with ease, but if you play the pass, Knight can also score on you in a very efficient manner.

Giannis at the beginning of the season was soft and timid. He seemed afraid to make a mistake, always looking over his shoulder. Now, Giannis is assertive, confident, and soaring to new levels almost every single game.

Middleton at the start of the season was terrible. He was playing hero ball taking multitudes of very bad shots, and not giving max effort on defense. He found himself on the bench for a 2 week stretch not getting much playing time, suffered an injury in practice, and slowly eased back into the rotation. Now, Middleton is being talked about as one of the better success stories of the season, and one of the more underrated players.

If this is the track record that we can expect from Kidd with players that have potential, we are truly going to reach heights not even the most optimistic fan could ever hope for. With that being said, this is why I keep Knight, Middleton, Henson, Giannis, Jabari, and Marshall no matter what (obviously if we get offered an insane offer you take it). Each of them from day one to now (or until the injuries to Parker and Marshall) have exponentially improved.

So what does this mean for trades? Well, it depends. If we think this team has the potential for a Hawk like surge even this year, maybe we look to grab that missing piece. I think that missing piece is a Center who can impact both ends of the floor for 20-25mpg. Henson is playing very well, but 20mpg seems to be his maximum efficiency rate. Once Zaza comes back, I look for him to come off the bench and give us 15-20mpg, but he can also be an effective PF alongside Henson. If we can go and get a Center who can score efficiently while contesting shots, it would really put us over the top as one of the biggest underdogs in the East.

[M-C-G]

If you don't have a bona fide stud at a position, then you need to fill that position with different types of players that can fill a different role.

Some nights Henson is simply going to be over matched at center physically.

Some nights ZaZa is simply going to give up too much length and quickness.

Some nights we are going to need someone that can rebound and score a little - I think that is the piece we are missing right now. Something in between those two jokers.

[Lippo]

Lets just turn Giannis into a Center. He could end up 7'1 265 in 2 years, If he can start to hit a 16'er, imagine centers trying to cover him. Right now physically he is a 24 year Tyson Chandler.
Marshall
Knight
Middleton
Parker
Giannis

PJIII is a guy I would love to land in a trade.
He could back up the 3-5. He could be a bigger Rashard Lewis with better D

[Giannis Parker]

Lets just turn Giannis into a Center. He could end up 7'1 265 in 2 years, If he can start to hit a 16'er, imagine centers trying to cover him. Right now physically he is a 24 year Tyson Chandler.
Marshall
Knight
Middleton
Parker
Giannis

PJIII is a guy I would love to land in a trade.
He could back up the 3-5. He could be a bigger Rashard Lewis with better D

The only argument I can place against you is the fact that Middleton is a much better player at SG than he is at SF. I think he is a lot like Rip Hamilton, and that is where I want to keep Middleton for the long haul.

[raferfenix]

If this is the track record that we can expect from Kidd with players that have potential, we are truly going to reach heights not even the most optimistic fan could ever hope for. With that being said, this is why I keep Knight, Middleton, Henson, Giannis, Jabari, and Marshall no matter what (obviously if we get offered an insane offer you take it). Each of them from day one to now (or until the injuries to Parker and Marshall) have exponentially improved.

So what does this mean for trades? Well, it depends. If we think this team has the potential for a Hawk like surge even this year, maybe we look to grab that missing piece. I think that missing piece is a Center who can impact both ends of the floor for 20-25mpg. Henson is playing very well, but 20mpg seems to be his maximum efficiency rate. Once Zaza comes back, I look for him to come off the bench and give us 15-20mpg, but he can also be an effective PF alongside Henson. If we can go and get a Center who can score efficiently while contesting shots, it would really put us over the top as one of the biggest underdogs in the East.

Very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

If our franchise believes that Jason Kidd will maximize the development of Middleton / Knight I can see why we'd be more inclined to resign them. Though of course the "contract year" effect could be at play to some extent here too.

This comes into play on the John Henson front more positively since we don't have to make a decision on extending him for over another season. And if Kidd gets him to improve that would also improve his trade value even if we ultimately go in a different direction long term.

All this further begs the question as to what assets are the ones that we'd be looking to trade to acquire that least piece.

If all of this proves to be the case, it seems like the kind of package we might be offering around would be some combination of ZaZa / Dudley / Bayless / Mayo / Ersan and let's say the LAC pick -- and we would be looking for a "center who can score efficiently while contesting shots."

I would hope that we aren't making a pure win now move vs an #OwnTheFuture one, and I'd be real reticent to trade draft picks aside from maybe the extra LAC one. If we believe Kidd is a master at developing young talent we should prioritize getting more of that for him year to year.

So taking this whole argument, I could see why someone like let's say Kanter would be our primary target. That would presumably cost more valued pieces like ZaZa / Dudley / Bayless, and he'd be another player to extend this summer, but it'd be a move with the eye on the long term for sure.

On the other end of the spectrum are moves like trying to trade a package more like Mayo / Ersan for Jason Thompson / Williams.

Only way we could swing that particular scenario would be if the Kings see it as setting them up to trade Stauskas. For us, we get a better fitting big man while cutting some cap room for this summer, as well as getting out from Mayo's salary before we bankroll Middleton / Knight to boot. I could get into that.

[Giannis Parker]

The only thing that saves us from really needing help in the post is if Sanders comes back with a straight head. I think Sanders and Henson as a duo at Center could be exactly what we need long term. Start Henson for 20-25mpg, and play Larry the remainder. But always keep an adequate 3rd Center on the team as to the fact we all know you cannot rely no Larry.

[Giannis Parker]

Not sure where it stands, but I still like the concept of moving Ersan to the Kings for Thompson and if you can get him Stauskas. Thompson just seems like a better fit with what we have, and would be a good 3rd big moving forward to help in the scenario I mentioned above.

[smauss]

I still think Kanter. Or at the very least, someone with a similar skill set. He brings strength and physicality, with good feet and quickness. He can post up, he can hit jump shots, depending on who he's rollin with. Not a bad passer either. If we roll with Henson next year, we will need someone with this kind of skill set badly. IMHO, we just need to exclude Larry from the conversation, and move on. I really hope he gets it together, but not here.

[Dcebucks11]

I still think Kanter. Or at the very least, someone with a similar skill set. He brings strength and physicality, with good feet and quickness. He can post up, he can hit jump shots, depending on who he's rollin with. Not a bad passer either. If we roll with Henson next year, we will need someone with this kind of skill set badly. IMHO, we just need to exclude Larry from the conversation, and move on. I really hope he gets it together, but not here.

Kanter is a black hole on offense, awful passer. Poor defender too... Not a fan of him tbh.

I get the Bucks need rebounding and size but Kanter is not a guy I'd want..

[Cyrone Torbin]

Kanter is one of the worst passers in the history of basketball.

[Lippo]

Lets just turn Giannis into a Center. He could end up 7'1 265 in 2 years, If he can start to hit a 16'er, imagine centers trying to cover him. Right now physically he is a 24 year Tyson Chandler.
Marshall
Knight
Middleton
Parker
Giannis

PJIII is a guy I would love to land in a trade.
He could back up the 3-5. He could be a bigger Rashard Lewis with better D

The only argument I can place against you is the fact that Middleton is a much better player at SG than he is at SF. I think he is a lot like Rip Hamilton, and that is where I want to keep Middleton for the long haul.

Aren't 2's and 3's kinda interchangable in today's NBA, wing is a wing, its who you can guard. Korver plays alot of 3. Middelton can D as well as him. He's also alot like a mini Durant (Rip/KD hybrid )

[neiLz]

pray larry comes back. trade up to draft frank the tank. got your big who can defend. got another big who can stretch the defense. dominate the east.

[mlloyd10]

pray larry comes back. trade up to draft frank the tank. got your big who can defend. got another big who can stretch the defense. dominate the east.

Said no one ever

[Bucks2585]

What would people think about Sullinger as a long term PF? He has the big body that we lack in terms of rebouding, hes a decent passer for the PF position, he has a polished post game, etc. Obviously, he has concerns with a low shooting percentage, undersized for the PF spot on defense, etc. But as a 3rd big long term, he could be a fit with a guy like Henson. Does a little bit of everything, can play C in spurts in terms of boxing out the bigger guys that Henson cant deal with, and is versatile offensively.

[ampd]

I wonder what it would take to rent Greg Monroe from the pistons. Are they committed to him now without smoove? Do they still think they're making the playoffs?

[ampd]

What would people think about Sullinger as a long term PF? He has the big body that we lack in terms of rebouding, hes a decent passer for the PF position, he has a polished post game, etc. Obviously, he has concerns with a low shooting percentage, undersized for the PF spot on defense, etc. But as a 3rd big long term, he could be a fit with a guy like Henson. Does a little bit of everything, can play C in spurts in terms of boxing out the bigger guys that Henson cant deal with, and is versatile offensively.

Long term I think giannis is our pf. We need a center. I'd like dmo or Greg Monroe out of the potential free agents or trade targets a lot more than Kanter.

[M-C-G]

I still think Kanter. Or at the very least, someone with a similar skill set. He brings strength and physicality, with good feet and quickness. He can post up, he can hit jump shots, depending on who he's rollin with. Not a bad passer either. If we roll with Henson next year, we will need someone with this kind of skill set badly. IMHO, we just need to exclude Larry from the conversation, and move on. I really hope he gets it together, but not here.

Kanter is a black hole on offense, awful passer. Poor defender too... Not a fan of him tbh.

I get the Bucks need rebounding and size but Kanter is not a guy I'd want..

If he wasn't flawed he would be max contract and completely unavailable. I know ZaZa has a really high bbiq, but us being a top defense with him and Henson as the primary bigs tells me the system can cover up a lot of warts with a guy.

To me, he is the right age and reasonably obtainable to become part of the core. Is he going to need to improve and buy in to the system? For sure.

I'm open to other guys, but to me, he brings a lot to the table we are lacking today. Plus, I don't see Henson ever being the guy, I see him as your secondary / certain match up guy.

[raferfenix]

I wonder what it would take to rent Greg Monroe from the pistons. Are they committed to him now without smoove? Do they still think they're making the playoffs?

This is interesting. Though I imagine all things equal Detroit wouldn't want to gift him to us after the Jennings coup of a deal.

Not sure if the team having his rights being able to give him 5 years and larger raises will be determinative. Same with Koufos.

In which case I'd be real reticent to give up non-veteran talent for him.

[Bernman]

Monroe is still a weird fit next to Drummond long-term. And they could try and re-sign him anyway in the offseason. I don't think he's getting the super max or near it.

I think the market value for a Monroe rental is a later 1st or a prospect equivalent. For our purposes, Henson + 2nd may be enough. I would do that deal. I don't think the Pistons would fit-wise, as it would create a similar problem as Monroe/Drummond. But we could work out a 3-way where the Pistons get a later 1st or different prospect instead.

I've shared before I thought Monroe had become underrated because of the surrounding cast in Detroit and I am intrigued by his long-term potential in the league. But I'd settle for a rental to try and propel us to the next round of the playoffs finally, and then we could go from there in figuring out whether to re-sign him.