Trade Ideas Thread

[Banks2Pierce]

Would be classic Ray Allen to pick his team after the trade deadline as he's flirted with about 8 teams throughout the process and no one trades for Thornton or Prince.

[aim2please]

Sorry in advance for the long post. When discussing trade or FA targets I think we should all think about what do we want our team to look like in the future. We can all agree that NBA is headed to a new 'pace and space' era where shooting is a premium skill. Memphis is an obvious exception to the rule but they compensate it by having an elite passing big man in Gasol who can create shots and opportunities for open guys/cutters that 90% of other centers can't.

I believe in Stevens and like that he is open to analytics - meaning that I believe that in the future we won't be in the top5 of teams taking the most long 2s like we are this year. I think personnel has a lot to do with it (Bass, Turner, Bradley) but I hope I don't have to see guys taking those 'step on the line' long 2s next year. It's a bad shot. 50% of long 2s = 33% of 3s. Math. Period. (no one can make even close to 50% of midrange shots on high volume but I am being generous).

Lets take a look at all the smart/successful teams around the league who have a great offense: SAS, GSW, HOU, ATL, POR, DAL, LAC, OKC... Most of those teams are trying to get as much 3s (especially corner 3s) and shots around the rim as possible and on the other end try to force opponents into taking midrange shots. (Dirk and Aldridge are the only exceptions to the rule because of their elite midrange shooting AND ability to get a shot of at any time).

Closer look at guards and SFs on those teams, only guys who aren't considered good 3 point shooters are Parker, Westbrook and Ellis (not counting Rondo cause DAL with him isn't elite offensive team and we know first hand what having a guy like him means to your spacing/offense). Both Ellis and Parker are 32% 3P shooters in their career, Westbrook 30% - which isn't great but isn't far from being respectable, Mendoza line is 33% I guess. All 3 of those guys compensate lack of 3P shot with demon speed and/or explosiveness which helps them get to the rim as well as having a good arsenal of tricks near the rim (floaters, runners)

Other than those guys you have Green, Leonard, Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Harden, Beverley, Ariza, Teague, Korver, Carroll, Lillard, Matthews, Batum (huge shooting slump this year but career 36% from deep), Paul, Redick, Durant... All good to great 3p shooters. IMO days of playing a good one way players like Tony Allen for 30 minutes a game are over. If you can't shoot it's 4 on 5 on offense.

PF spot is tricky, some teams have small ball 4s with range, some play bigger with 2 classic big guys - it's debatable. What's similar to all of those contending teams is that they have an elite/good rim protector: Duncan, Bogut, Howard, Chandler, Jordan, Ibaka, R.Lopez (ATL is an exception, Horford is not a classical rim protector but he is a very good all around def. player).

So, lets take a look at our roster. Which guys fit that model going forward. Smart shooting 36% is really encouraging considering biggest knock on him coming out of college has been lack of shooting. If he can stay around 35% while playing great D he is someone I am willing to build around especially since you can put a traditional SG next to him, or a guy that needs the ball and play Smart off the ball. Defensive versatility is off the chart with him on the floor cause he can guard 1-3 in most match ups.

Young is an obvious fit with his shooting, defense needs work. Crowder is like Demarre Carroll, low usage guy who can fit 3&D role with any team. He fails epically if you ask him to do too much though. Ultimate role player who I would love to have on a 4-6M per year.

Sullinger, Olynyk and Zeller are good while on rookie deals so Danny doesn't have to make a decision on them at the moment. I am not in love with either of them to give them huge extensions to be honest. Wouldn't mind paying Sully 10M a year if I had my team set and had him playing PF next to lets say Hibbert, but building around HIM is a scary proposition.

I don't love Bradley as some do but I don't either hate him as some on the board do. He can be a third guard on a good team but someone has to explain to him that those long 2s are a killer. This version of Bradley is not efficient enough for my liking. He basically shoots every time he catches the ball in the midrange, not even thinking about driving or swinging the ball. Also, advance stats are kind of a killer for his 'great defense' reputation but lets say it's because we don't have a rim protector. o_0

Perimeter guys that can't shot from deep are a big no-no IMO. That's why I cringe every time I see Turner wearing green and why I think Reggie Jackson is not a guy I would break a bank to get. He is shooting 28% from deep in his career. If you want a shoot first PG rather try to trade for I. Thomas who is a great 3P shooter and great at finishing at the rim - which is shocking considering his height.

So, taking all of this into account, looking at the FA class I would like us to target guys like Harris, Middleton, Beverley, Hibbert (all depending on price and our draft of course)

Tl;dr version: guards and wings who can't shoot from deep shouldn't be on our shopping list. Also, those who shoot long 2s should be locked in the basement 0_o

[Drax]

If we don't draft a center, i hope Ainge shoots for Kosta Koufos.

He's not going back to Memphis, should come cheaper than the Deandre Jordan types, will be just entering his prime at 26, has proven he can start in the NBA, protect the rim, run the floor, and shoot efficiently. The dude wants to start somewhere and i can think he can have an Omer Asik type breakout.

No need for a breakout season in my mind. If we could get Koufos to play his current game for 30 minutes a night his production will naturally go up and he'd be an instant contributor for the Celtics. Depending on the price i'd really love to get him, makes me wonder how much he's going to get paid in the offseason.

[Banks2Pierce]

Also, advance stats are kind of a killer for his 'great defense' reputation but lets say it's because we don't have a rim protector. o_0

So, taking all of this into account, looking at the FA class I would like us to target guys like Harris, Middleton, Beverley, Hibbert (all depending on price and our draft of course)

I like the guys you have mentioned as FA targets. Would not mind at all splitting a good chunk of our space on Middleton/Beverley for 2 year deals with a player option after year 1.

As for the Bradley defense point, I think it depends on which defensive metrics you put weight into. Think he'd look best over multi-year RPM, which I'd bet on as being the best. The other stuff: Net PER, anything from Synergy, straight up on/off splits(Jeff Green-anchor), def. win shares...meh. Agree on his offense. Not sure why he's being turned into a high USG, curl screen guy to set up our entire offense, but maybe it'll eventually expand out into 25' and he'll be an on the move 3 pt shooter. Otherwise, have no idea what Brad's doing with that.

[ddb]

I agree. I also think a mid-season acquisition of Jackson will make the Celtics an even more appealing destination for a potential FA in the offseason. If not, you can simply go out and grab a defensive big with your first rounder and rock out with that group. Might get a little sticky in terms of who you start between Smart and Bradley however... as you'd seemingly have to start Jackson.

I would go Smart/Jackson as starters with Bradley as the 3rd guard. There are 32 minutes per guy if you split it up evenly. wouldn't be an issue. plus you can go small ball with all three of those guys out there since Smart can guard some 3's.

I don't know... I go back and forth on it, but I think you kinda want to give the "point guard" duties exclusively to Jackson for the remainder of the year. Let him feel like he'll have the opportunity to play the role he wants and keep grooming Smart to play that PG role by having him come off the bench... That's where I think it gets a bit dicey bringing in Jackson. What kind of friction does it cause with Smart and himself. Not sure he'd be happy to sign long-term in a place where he might end up being the backup again...

But I'm also not sure that Jackson/Bradley is a great pairing... I'm still intrigued by the idea of pursuing Jackson. At the same time, it might be better to hold off and then look into Dragic/Knight or one of the other PG's likely to hit the market. And no, not Rondo.

I'm fine with a Smart/Bradley back court. Don't really care if Ainge goes after Jackson or not. The guy I really want in Free Agency is Kawhi Leonard. Highly unlikely that San Antonio lets him get away... but I can dream.

Smart/Bradley/Leonard defending together would basically be unfair for opposing teams lol

[BakersDozen]

My crazy idea of the day... Go after Ty Lawson, maybe even Gallinari. Im not giving up on Smart... I'd just move him to the 2.
Lawson/Smart/Gallo/Sullinger/Zeller
with Bradley/Young/Crowder/KO rounding out the bench

[humblebum]

Also, advance stats are kind of a killer for his 'great defense' reputation but lets say it's because we don't have a rim protector. o_0

So, taking all of this into account, looking at the FA class I would like us to target guys like Harris, Middleton, Beverley, Hibbert (all depending on price and our draft of course)

I like the guys you have mentioned as FA targets. Would not mind at all splitting a good chunk of our space on Middleton/Beverley for 2 year deals with a player option after year 1.

As for the Bradley defense point, I think it depends on which defensive metrics you put weight into. Think he'd look best over multi-year RPM, which I'd bet on as being the best. The other stuff: Net PER, anything from Synergy, straight up on/off splits(Jeff Green-anchor), def. win shares...meh. Agree on his offense. Not sure why he's being turned into a high USG, curl screen guy to set up our entire offense, but maybe it'll eventually expand out into 25' and he'll be an on the move 3 pt shooter. Otherwise, have no idea what Brad's doing with that.

No idea? He's the only guy on most possessions who can even get a shot off in the half court. People might not like those "long twos" but he shoots them really well and he's not a risk to get doubled like a Zeller/Sullinger post up. It's really out of necessity, IMO. Don't think for one second he'd be getting more than a few of these types of shots on a team with actual top flight offensive options.

aim2please makes some good points but I think Jackson has the type of ability to be a solid 2nd, or 3rd scorer on a championship team. Great length, excellent defensive ability, underrated passer and playmaker. With Smart/Bradley/Young and then whoever you keep out of Olynyk/Sullinger you'll have great spacing for him to work. Again, not 100% sold on moving the necessary pieces to acquire him or giving him the money he'll likely be offered in free agency, but Jackson is definitely more than a "mid range shooter".

[BleedGreen1989]

If we don't draft a center, i hope Ainge shoots for Kosta Koufos.

He's not going back to Memphis, should come cheaper than the Deandre Jordan types, will be just entering his prime at 26, has proven he can start in the NBA, protect the rim, run the floor, and shoot efficiently. The dude wants to start somewhere and i can think he can have an Omer Asik type breakout.

No need for a breakout season in my mind. If we could get Koufos to play his current game for 30 minutes a night his production will naturally go up and he'd be an instant contributor for the Celtics. Depending on the price i'd really love to get him, makes me wonder how much he's going to get paid in the offseason.

3 years/$24 million?

That seem low or high?

[Edug27]

My crazy idea of the day... Go after Ty Lawson, maybe even Gallinari. Im not giving up on Smart... I'd just move him to the 2.
Lawson/Smart/Gallo/Sullinger/Zeller
with Bradley/Young/Crowder/KO rounding out the bench

Crazy indeed.

[humblebum]

Lawson, sure (though I don't think that's realistic). He's a natural fit as a scorer next to either Smart or Bradley. But let me give a big helllll no to Gallinari. Dude is trash. I'd rather just let Kelly play the three.

[Higgs Boston]

My crazy idea of the day... Go after Ty Lawson, maybe even Gallinari. Im not giving up on Smart... I'd just move him to the 2.
Lawson/Smart/Gallo/Sullinger/Zeller
with Bradley/Young/Crowder/KO rounding out the bench

Gallinari is a toxic contract, his contract is 11 million and his performance is very low, also he had hard injuries.

[Drax]

If we don't draft a center, i hope Ainge shoots for Kosta Koufos.

He's not going back to Memphis, should come cheaper than the Deandre Jordan types, will be just entering his prime at 26, has proven he can start in the NBA, protect the rim, run the floor, and shoot efficiently. The dude wants to start somewhere and i can think he can have an Omer Asik type breakout.

No need for a breakout season in my mind. If we could get Koufos to play his current game for 30 minutes a night his production will naturally go up and he'd be an instant contributor for the Celtics. Depending on the price i'd really love to get him, makes me wonder how much he's going to get paid in the offseason.

3 years/$24 million?

That seem low or high?

I think actually low, because many teams have capspace, salary cap will increase and centers usually get paid big time. I'm thinking $10-11 million a year. Not sure though he's worth that much.

[Valid]

No need for a breakout season in my mind. If we could get Koufos to play his current game for 30 minutes a night his production will naturally go up and he'd be an instant contributor for the Celtics. Depending on the price i'd really love to get him, makes me wonder how much he's going to get paid in the offseason.

3 years/$24 million?

That seem low or high?

I think actually low, because many teams have capspace, salary cap will increase and centers usually get paid big time. I'm thinking $10-11 million a year. Not sure though he's worth that much.

Not sure he is going to get double figures even with the cap increase. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 million is more realistic.

[Drax]

I think actually low, because many teams have capspace, salary cap will increase and centers usually get paid big time. I'm thinking $10-11 million a year. Not sure though he's worth that much.

Not sure he is going to get double figures even with the cap increase. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 million is more realistic.

Just for example Jordan Hill earns $9 million is he better than Koufus?

[BleedGreen1989]

I think actually low, because many teams have capspace, salary cap will increase and centers usually get paid big time. I'm thinking $10-11 million a year. Not sure though he's worth that much.

Not sure he is going to get double figures even with the cap increase. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 million is more realistic.

Just for example Jordan Hill earns $9 million is he better than Koufus?

Good point.

I would say no, he is not.

[ddb]

I was daydreaming this morning. In my day dream the Celtics had the 9th and 14th picks in the 1st round this year. Meaning the Clippers just missed the playoffs.

Ainge called RC Buford and told him that he plans on extending a max contract offer to Leonard, and anticipating that RC would match any deal for Leonard Ainge called him offering the #9 pick as a centerpiece in a S/T (wouldn't be official to free agency period).

So in my day dream the Celtics draft whoever the Spurs want at #9, then send that player along with Jae Crowder, Kelly Olynyk and the Philly 2nd rounder to San Antonio for a newly signed KLeonard & Corey Joseph. In my day dream the deal was actually Crowder/Olynyk/Looney/Andrew Harrison for Leonard/Joseph.

Ainge then traded up a couple spots and selected WCS with the 12th pick.

Then comes the KEVIN GARNETT-ESQUE move of the summer. Ainge lures Aldridge to Boston via max free agent deal. In order to facilitate the deal Boston buysout Wallace. Then Pierce announces his return to Boston.... Ainge sends Turner to Washington to facilitate the deal.

Smart-Bradley-Leonard-Aldridge-WCS
Joseph-Pierce-Sullinger-Zeller
Young-Pressey-etc

[Higgs Boston]

I think actually low, because many teams have capspace, salary cap will increase and centers usually get paid big time. I'm thinking $10-11 million a year. Not sure though he's worth that much.

Not sure he is going to get double figures even with the cap increase. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 million is more realistic.

Just for example Jordan Hill earns $9 million is he better than Koufus?

I think Isn't exactly the same. Hill contract is overpaid, but the reason between other reasons is that Lakers can't sign star players as they wanted. See the structure of his contract: 9 million and in second year 9 million with Team option. In other words they overpaid him to get to pay enough salaries (cap space) and in 2016 have a asset to do a s&t or similar. In koufos case if you offer a long contract (3 years or more with guaranteed contract) supposedly is because this player is part of future or at least valuable asset to trade. Therefore you should see if the contract will be reasonable (teams are "reticent" to make a trade if the role player has a long contract)

[Pacino62]

I was daydreaming this morning. In my day dream the Celtics had the 9th and 14th picks in the 1st round this year. Meaning the Clippers just missed the playoffs.

Ainge called RC Buford and told him that he plans on extending a max contract offer to Leonard, and anticipating that RC would match any deal for Leonard Ainge called him offering the #9 pick as a centerpiece in a S/T (wouldn't be official to free agency period).

So in my day dream the Celtics draft whoever the Spurs want at #9, then send that player along with Jae Crowder, Kelly Olynyk and the Philly 2nd rounder to San Antonio for a newly signed KLeonard & Corey Joseph. In my day dream the deal was actually Crowder/Olynyk/Looney/Andrew Harrison for Leonard/Joseph.

Ainge then traded up a couple spots and selected WCS with the 12th pick.

Then comes the KEVIN GARNETT-ESQUE move of the summer. Ainge lures Aldridge to Boston via max free agent deal. In order to facilitate the deal Boston buysout Wallace. Then Pierce announces his return to Boston.... Ainge sends Turner to Washington to facilitate the deal.

Smart-Bradley-Leonard-Aldridge-WCS
Joseph-Pierce-Sullinger-Zeller
Young-Pressey-etc

Put me in the camp of someone who wants to see DDB's dreams become a reality! Also...I agree 100%, I am fine with a Smart/Bradley backcourt. Bradley started the season off mesa mesa, but he has really rounded into form. Playing the way he did on the WC trip and since returning, and that contract ends up being very reasonable.

[gocelts]

That would be crazy...we'd be a great team and 4 freakin picks in the very next draft.

It's ideas (with wishful thinking) that support the idea that this rebuild shouldn't take THAT much longer. We have the space to sign guys, the picks to make trades, and young players like Smart, Sully, and yes even Bradley that can play contribute on a great team.

As far as trades go this forthcoming deadline, I wonder who adopting Bass and Thornton for 3 months...?

[15th overall]

Pierce has an opt-out clause after this season. So depending on when that clause expires, we likely wouldn't have to trade Washington anything for PP.