Official Trade Thread: The Block Is Hot!!

[Revived]

Tyreke Evans is a baller and he has good size. Versatile player.

I'd consider acquiring him if Goran's leaving.

Evans is a 20-5-5 threat.

[thamadkant]

Tyreke Evans have good chemistry with Anthony Davis... those two are locked in...

Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon in the other hand...

[lilfishi22]

Those two things go hand in hand. Most, if not all, title contebders in the past 4-5 years have been teams that are good defensively or at least not awful.

The Boston Celtics before the Big 3 and LA before Pau trade weren't good defensive teams prior to getting their stars. Miami was a solid defensive team prior to Lebron and Bosh coming on board. What my point is, while great defense and championships do go hand in hand, it's not necessarily what stars are looking for when they sign. They look for roster talent, fit and the location.

[Revived]

Those two things go hand in hand. Most, if not all, title contebders in the past 4-5 years have been teams that are good defensively or at least not awful.

The Boston Celtics before the Big 3 and LA before Pau trade weren't good defensive teams prior to getting their stars. Miami was a solid defensive team prior to Lebron and Bosh coming on board. What my point is, while great defense and championships do go hand in hand, it's not necessarily what stars are looking for when they sign. They look for roster talent, fit and the location.

Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers have reputations for being coached who preach and live defense.

For all his problems offensively, Spo is actually a good defensive coach too and LeBron himself has alluded to this many times when he was there.

Sure those teams were bad defensively before he got there but that's more due to the talent on the roster as opposed to the defensive system that's in place.

Do you think Hornacek has ever been associated with "defense" in his life?

I'm dead serious when I say that Mike D'Antoni is probably a better defensive coach than Hornacek. The stats actually back me up as well since this year's team is probaby the worst defensive team in franchise history despite having a great rim protector in Len who he neglects to give heavy playing time to and Bledsoe who is probably top 3 in defense at his position.

Think of it this way, if Love opted out (no chance of it happening but hypothetically) and became a FA this summer and GSW somehow cleared cap room for him, do you think he would rather play for Steve Kerr and his #1 ranked defense or Hornacek and his league worst defense?

What's amazing is that Steve Kerr has the league's best defense in his first season as head coach.

I don't even want us to have a top 5 defense because it would give me a shock and result in a heart attack for me. And I know Sarver would not appreciate us being that good of a defensive team as well.

I just want us to be a respectable top 10-top 12 defensive team.

[Revived]

Tyreke Evans have good chemistry with Anthony Davis... those two are locked in...

Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon in the other hand...

How about acquiring Charlie Villanueve? So many people think the difference between this year and last year is a stretch 4 and Villanueva gives us that.

[bwgood77]

Those two things go hand in hand. Most, if not all, title contebders in the past 4-5 years have been teams that are good defensively or at least not awful.

The Boston Celtics before the Big 3 and LA before Pau trade weren't good defensive teams prior to getting their stars. Miami was a solid defensive team prior to Lebron and Bosh coming on board. What my point is, while great defense and championships do go hand in hand, it's not necessarily what stars are looking for when they sign. They look for roster talent, fit and the location.

Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers have reputations for being coached who preach and live defense.

For all his problems offensively, Spo is actually a good defensive coach too and LeBron himself has alluded to this many times when he was there.

Sure those teams were bad defensively before he got there but that's more due to the talent on the roster as opposed to the defensive system that's in place.

Do you think Hornacek has ever been associated with "defense" in his life?

I'm dead serious when I say that Mike D'Antoni is probably a better defensive coach than Hornacek. The stats actually back me up as well since this year's team is probaby the worst defensive team in franchise history despite having a great rim protector in Len who he neglects to give heavy playing time to and Bledsoe who is probably top 3 in defense at his position.

Think of it this way, if Love opted out (no chance of it happening but hypothetically) and became a FA this summer and GSW somehow cleared cap room for him, do you think he would rather play for Steve Kerr and his #1 ranked defense or Hornacek and his league worst defense?

What's amazing is that Steve Kerr has the league's best defense in his first season as head coach.

I don't even want us to have a top 5 defense because it would give me a shock and result in a heart attack for me. And I know Sarver would not appreciate us being that good of a defensive team as well.

I just want us to be a respectable top 10-top 12 defensive team.

You are being ridiculous. Defense depends largely on personnel, and Kerr's D is primarily because Jackson was a defensive guy and he took over the team. Hornacek took over a roster of guys that don't play great defense, outside of Bledsoe and Tucker. Hornacek was a hell of a lot better defender than Kerr in their playing days, so personally he seemed to take it more seriously.

[bwgood77]

Tyreke Evans have good chemistry with Anthony Davis... those two are locked in...

Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon in the other hand...

How about acquiring Charlie Villanueve? So many people think the difference between this year and last year is a stretch 4 and Villanueva gives us that.

I can't even tell if you are joking or serious any more. I used to be able to tell. I was looking at it tonight, and I wouldn't be surprised if Miami wants to get their hands on IT. I was looking at all the salaries, and thinking about how our FO always talks about how any trades won't just necessarily be for the short term, but also for the long term, and I wonder if a deal like IT/Plumlee for McRoberts/Cole would be a possibility.

I don't want or need Cole, but him or Chalmers would have to be included (for salary matching purposes), and Cole makes less....McRoberts might be a decent stretch guy on a decent contract, but he is out for the season, so it would be a trade to clear the logjam and give us frontcourt depth for the future, and a guy that can hit 3s. Though I do think Miami really likes McRoberts based on an article I read about why he signed with them. But if they are really desperate for a quality guard, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the type of deal that teams are considering. I do think we give up more value in that trade, but I'm just trying to figure out what could happen and who might want IT if we are shopping him.

[MrMiyagi]

I realize that the nature of an internet message board will bring out the crazies when it comes to talking about a sports team, but your guys are going overboard.

The Morris brothers, Bledsoe, Tucker, and Thomas are not going anywhere this year. The Suns just signed all of them to really solid contracts that will look like absolute steals in a couple of years. Phoenix can offer Dragic more money, more years, than any other team. They shouldn't lose him in free agency.

This team is YOUNG. Real young. There will be growing pains. The Morris brothers have improved every single year that they've played. They're 25 years old. Same with Bledsoe. They'll improve. Trading any of these guys when we have them locked up through their prime is beyond dumb.

If the Suns make any moves, it should be in the offseason. Trading our young players that are locked up for years to come, in the middle of the season, is insane and short-sighted.

BUT ACCORDING TO MY NBA2K15 FRANCHISE, IT SAYS THAT I CAN GET LEBRON AND ANTHONY DAVIS FOR IT, GORAN A FREE AGENT I SIGNED TO MATCH SALARIES AND 13 DRAFT PICKS! McD NEEDS TO MAKE ALL OF THE TRADES! HORNACEK SUCKS BALLS, THOUGH. IF I WEREN'T CONTROLLING MY SUBSTITUTIONS OR MY PLAY CALLS, WE'D DEFINITELY LOSE A GAME. THANKS TO ME, OUR 2015 SUNS ARE UNDEFEATED AND NEVER PLAY A CLOSE GAME. CLOSE GAMES ARE FOR CHUMPS. SHOULD NEVER BE IN A GAME THAT COMES DOWN TO THE LAST POSSESSION. TJ, ARCHIE AND TYLER GET 20 MINUTES A NIGHT BECAUSE WE'RE UP SO BIG. THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE

[MrMiyagi]

Tyreke Evans have good chemistry with Anthony Davis... those two are locked in...

Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon in the other hand...

How about acquiring Charlie Villanueve? So many people think the difference between this year and last year is a stretch 4 and Villanueva gives us that.

I can't even tell if you are joking or serious any more. I used to be able to tell. I was looking at it tonight, and I wouldn't be surprised if Miami wants to get their hands on IT. I was looking at all the salaries, and thinking about how our FO always talks about how any trades won't just necessarily be for the short term, but also for the long term, and I wonder if a deal like IT/Plumlee for McRoberts/Cole would be a possibility.

I don't want or need Cole, but him or Chalmers would have to be included (for salary matching purposes), and Cole makes less....McRoberts might be a decent stretch guy on a decent contract, but he is out for the season, so it would be a trade to clear the logjam and give us frontcourt depth for the future, and a guy that can hit 3s. Though I do think Miami really likes McRoberts based on an article I read about why he signed with them. But if they are really desperate for a quality guard, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the type of deal that teams are considering. I do think we give up more value in that trade, but I'm just trying to figure out what could happen and who might want IT if we are shopping him.

We'd better get at least 1 first round pick in that trade. McBob isn't that good and Cole/Chalmers suck sh*t.

[bwgood77]

How about acquiring Charlie Villanueve? So many people think the difference between this year and last year is a stretch 4 and Villanueva gives us that.

I can't even tell if you are joking or serious any more. I used to be able to tell. I was looking at it tonight, and I wouldn't be surprised if Miami wants to get their hands on IT. I was looking at all the salaries, and thinking about how our FO always talks about how any trades won't just necessarily be for the short term, but also for the long term, and I wonder if a deal like IT/Plumlee for McRoberts/Cole would be a possibility.

I don't want or need Cole, but him or Chalmers would have to be included (for salary matching purposes), and Cole makes less....McRoberts might be a decent stretch guy on a decent contract, but he is out for the season, so it would be a trade to clear the logjam and give us frontcourt depth for the future, and a guy that can hit 3s. Though I do think Miami really likes McRoberts based on an article I read about why he signed with them. But if they are really desperate for a quality guard, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the type of deal that teams are considering. I do think we give up more value in that trade, but I'm just trying to figure out what could happen and who might want IT if we are shopping him.

We'd better get at least 1 first round pick in that trade. McBob isn't that good and Cole/Chalmers suck sh*t.

I agree the value doesn't match. It would simply be a move IF the FO feels they need to unclog the rotation and that Dragic might leave if IT is still around, and if they would rather have a big who can stretch the floor in the future more than another guard. I don't think it happens, and Miami doesn't really have a first rounder they can trade, at least not for a while. It definitely doesn't help us talent-wise this season but if it allowed people like Dragic and Bledsoe to get more into their groove and make the team better it could help in other ways.

[lilfishi22]

Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers have reputations for being coached who preach and live defense.

For all his problems offensively, Spo is actually a good defensive coach too and LeBron himself has alluded to this many times when he was there.

Sure those teams were bad defensively before he got there but that's more due to the talent on the roster as opposed to the defensive system that's in place.

Do you think Hornacek has ever been associated with "defense" in his life?

I'm dead serious when I say that Mike D'Antoni is probably a better defensive coach than Hornacek. The stats actually back me up as well since this year's team is probaby the worst defensive team in franchise history despite having a great rim protector in Len who he neglects to give heavy playing time to and Bledsoe who is probably top 3 in defense at his position.

Len is a great rim protector? Yuu make him sound like he's the second coming of Bill Russell. He's a decent rim protector but he's still basically a rookie considering he has missed most of last season with injuries and what not. Him, Bledsoe and Tucker alone aren't going to put us in the top 10 in defensive rankings even with heavy minutes. We're undoubtedly a unbalanced team with a heavy leaning towards offense and Hornacek is doing what he can with the roster he has and he's figured the best way to win is to lean on our #1 ranked offense. Just look at our offseason acquisitions, offensive players. We have not improved defensively not because Hornacek is allergic to defense but because we have very few players who are capable of playing above average defense.

Mike D'Antoni's Suns team has some seriously elite and versatile defenders and we played great D even without and emphasis on defense. Also if you recall Mike left when he didn't want a defensive coordinator on his caoching staff. We have Mike Longabardi as an assistant coach. Long story short, it's hard to make a comparison between SSOL Suns and Hornacek Suns; they had way more talent defensively and that's even without preaching defense.

Think of it this way, if Love opted out (no chance of it happening but hypothetically) and became a FA this summer and GSW somehow cleared cap room for him, do you think he would rather play for Steve Kerr and his #1 ranked defense or Hornacek and his league worst defense?

What's amazing is that Steve Kerr has the league's best defense in his first season as head coach.

I don't even want us to have a top 5 defense because it would give me a shock and result in a heart attack for me. And I know Sarver would not appreciate us being that good of a defensive team as well.

I just want us to be a respectable top 10-top 12 defensive team.

Love would look for 1. Who can pay him 2. Which team will allow him to contribute the most 3. which team has the greatest chance at winning.

1. We can pay him
2. We can make him our #1 or #2 option on offense
3. GSW would give him a better chance at wining.

Also GSW has arguably the most talented defensive squad in the league. An elite perimeter defender like Andre Iguodala is on their bench FFS. Let's not act like Kerr didn't walk into a situation where the roster already had some great defenders (and defensive anchor) and then MAGICALLY turned it into the #1 defense in the league. You know what Hornacek did do though? He walked into a mess of a roster and turned it into a top 10 (now top 5) offense in the league two seasons in a row. All this about Sarver/Hornacek not wanting us to play defense is complete BS.

[rsavaj]

The "worst defensive team in Suns history" according to SF88 is actually a slightly below average defensive team. We rank 17th in defensive rating.

Sorry man, you can't just make stuff up to fit your "Hornacek is literally Hitler" narrative, especially when we can fact-check it.

If you want more detailed stats, we're 19th in guarding the 3, and 14th in overall defensive FG%.

[Safety Pickle]

Tyreke Evans have good chemistry with Anthony Davis... those two are locked in...

Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon in the other hand...

How about acquiring Charlie Villanueve? So many people think the difference between this year and last year is a stretch 4 and Villanueva gives us that.

I can't even tell if you are joking or serious any more. I used to be able to tell. I was looking at it tonight, and I wouldn't be surprised if Miami wants to get their hands on IT. I was looking at all the salaries, and thinking about how our FO always talks about how any trades won't just necessarily be for the short term, but also for the long term, and I wonder if a deal like IT/Plumlee for McRoberts/Cole would be a possibility.

I don't want or need Cole, but him or Chalmers would have to be included (for salary matching purposes), and Cole makes less....McRoberts might be a decent stretch guy on a decent contract, but he is out for the season, so it would be a trade to clear the logjam and give us frontcourt depth for the future, and a guy that can hit 3s. Though I do think Miami really likes McRoberts based on an article I read about why he signed with them. But if they are really desperate for a quality guard, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the type of deal that teams are considering. I do think we give up more value in that trade, but I'm just trying to figure out what could happen and who might want IT if we are shopping him.

I doubt we even consider that offer unless picks are involved. Trading away players for inferior talent just to clear a logjam doesn't make sense. Trading for McBoberts makes no sense since he is out for the year. He would just be a dead contract. And dumping Plumlee basically for free makes no sense. Even if he has regressed, he's still an athletic 7 footer on a cheap contract

[BurningHeart]

The "worst defensive team in Suns history" according to SF88 is actually a slightly below average defensive team. We rank 17th in defensive rating.

Sorry man, you can't just make stuff up to fit your "Hornacek is literally Hitler" narrative, especially when we can fact-check it.

If you want more detailed stats, we're 19th in guarding the 3, and 14th in overall defensive FG%.

Our defense is actually not that bad at all. It's our repeated idiocy and sloppiness on offense that has cost us game after game after game.

[Revived]

The "worst defensive team in Suns history" according to SF88 is actually a slightly below average defensive team. We rank 17th in defensive rating.

Sorry man, you can't just make stuff up to fit your "Hornacek is literally Hitler" narrative, especially when we can fact-check it.

If you want more detailed stats, we're 19th in guarding the 3, and 14th in overall defensive FG%.

I hate, hate, hate that people find stats just to support their argument. One of the primary reasons why I hate most of Los Soles arguments and any advanced stat arguments.

Its so much simpler to analyze if you actually watch the game rather than rely on stats completely. One of the main reasons why I don't like Daryl Morey even though everyone else is on his jock.

Regardless, lets talk stats. I find it convenient that you leave out that Suns are bottom 10 in pts allowed, and pts allowed in the paint.

But of course, defensive rating supports your argument, so lets just use that right?

I could probably find a stat right now that shows me that Steve Nash is the best defensive PG of all time. Will you believe it?

Assuming you've watched the Suns a lot of this season, toss out all the stats. Do you actually think we're a good defensive team?

[Revived]

The Boston Celtics before the Big 3 and LA before Pau trade weren't good defensive teams prior to getting their stars. Miami was a solid defensive team prior to Lebron and Bosh coming on board. What my point is, while great defense and championships do go hand in hand, it's not necessarily what stars are looking for when they sign. They look for roster talent, fit and the location.

Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers have reputations for being coached who preach and live defense.

For all his problems offensively, Spo is actually a good defensive coach too and LeBron himself has alluded to this many times when he was there.

Sure those teams were bad defensively before he got there but that's more due to the talent on the roster as opposed to the defensive system that's in place.

Do you think Hornacek has ever been associated with "defense" in his life?

I'm dead serious when I say that Mike D'Antoni is probably a better defensive coach than Hornacek. The stats actually back me up as well since this year's team is probaby the worst defensive team in franchise history despite having a great rim protector in Len who he neglects to give heavy playing time to and Bledsoe who is probably top 3 in defense at his position.

Think of it this way, if Love opted out (no chance of it happening but hypothetically) and became a FA this summer and GSW somehow cleared cap room for him, do you think he would rather play for Steve Kerr and his #1 ranked defense or Hornacek and his league worst defense?

What's amazing is that Steve Kerr has the league's best defense in his first season as head coach.

I don't even want us to have a top 5 defense because it would give me a shock and result in a heart attack for me. And I know Sarver would not appreciate us being that good of a defensive team as well.

I just want us to be a respectable top 10-top 12 defensive team.

You are being ridiculous. Defense depends largely on personnel, and Kerr's D is primarily because Jackson was a defensive guy and he took over the team. Hornacek took over a roster of guys that don't play great defense, outside of Bledsoe and Tucker. Hornacek was a hell of a lot better defender than Kerr in their playing days, so personally he seemed to take it more seriously.

Are you joking? You don't have to be a good defensive player to be a good defensive coach. Phil Jackson wasn't known for his defense as a player. Among others.

You say that Kerr is free loading off Mark Jackson's coaching, but right now, you don't think Kerr is a better coach in terms of coaching defense than Hornacek?

[Zelaznyrules]

The "worst defensive team in Suns history" according to SF88 is actually a slightly below average defensive team. We rank 17th in defensive rating.

Sorry man, you can't just make stuff up to fit your "Hornacek is literally Hitler" narrative, especially when we can fact-check it.

If you want more detailed stats, we're 19th in guarding the 3, and 14th in overall defensive FG%.

I hate, hate, hate that people find stats just to support their argument. One of the primary reasons why I hate most of Los Soles arguments and any advanced stat arguments.

Its so much simpler to analyze if you actually watch the game rather than rely on stats completely. One of the main reasons why I don't like Daryl Morey even though everyone else is on his jock.

Regardless, lets talk stats. I find it convenient that you leave out that Suns are bottom 10 in pts allowed, and pts allowed in the paint.

But of course, defensive rating supports your argument, so lets just use that right?

I could probably find a stat right now that shows me that Steve Nash is the best defensive PG of all time. Will you believe it?

Assuming you've watched the Suns a lot of this season, toss out all the stats. Do you actually think we're a good defensive team?

I don't think we're this bad defensive team that you make us out to be. When it's Eric, Goran, PJ, Keef and Len we're a good defensive team. When it's IT, Eric, Goran, Keef and Len we're a good defensive team. We have some really bad combinations that drag us into the mediocre range but the core of this team gives me confidence that we are heading the right direction defensively and as a long time Suns fan, that's not something I've been able to say before.

[lilfishi22]

You say that Kerr is free loading off Mark Jackson's coaching, but right now, you don't think Kerr is a better coach in terms of coaching defense than Hornacek?

Who knows what Hornacek could do with the defensive talent Kerr has

[Saberestar]

Thomas scored 26 and led the Suns' fourth-quarter rally with nine consecutive points but Dragic's recent struggles continued. He scored 13 on Sunday following his only consecutive single-digit scoring games in two seasons.
He looks frustrated.
"Yeah, a little bit but it's not only me," Dragic said. "We're not getting that freedom that we used to have on offense. The good thing is that we've still got one more game (before the All-Star break). Hopefully, we're going to win that and then we get one week off, hopefully to clear our heads a little bit.
"Everything is about the rhythm. If you don't get the ball so many times in that spot that you like, it's really tough to get going. That's the main thing for me now."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /23149093/

[Bogyo]

Thomas scored 26 and led the Suns' fourth-quarter rally with nine consecutive points but Dragic's recent struggles continued. He scored 13 on Sunday following his only consecutive single-digit scoring games in two seasons.
He looks frustrated.
"Yeah, a little bit but it's not only me," Dragic said. "We're not getting that freedom that we used to have on offense. The good thing is that we've still got one more game (before the All-Star break). Hopefully, we're going to win that and then we get one week off, hopefully to clear our heads a little bit.
"Everything is about the rhythm. If you don't get the ball so many times in that spot that you like, it's really tough to get going. That's the main thing for me now."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /23149093/

You should have put it in the other thread (Goran regression etc), but otherwise this is crystal clear. I just hope that we don't lose him for nothing this offseason. It would be a shame to alienate and lose an all star caliber player, who happens to be our best playmaker b/c stupid redundancies made his production worse and made him feel like ****...Sadly enoug I can fully relate to him, becouse this is exactley what happened to me in the last year/this year in my workplace. New employee is not as good as I was, but I have to do stuff that I don't really like, becouse the new guy is simply not qualified for those... Guess who is unhappy and looking for a new opportunity - and why would it be any different in the NBA where you can choose from time to time which team will throw millions of dollars at you?