Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

[M-C-G]

lol. Parker/Giannis/Middleton are going to be a 70+ USG trio. We need a role playing distributor with them not a head down gunner. One ball.

Knight has not been this player you speak of for almost a month now, do you really ever watch the games man......your bias is strong!

We need a Center to become a legit threat for the next 5-6 seasons. For the first time ever we are set at 4 of 5 positions, and yet people like you cannot be happy, makes me sick man, makes me sick

He's had a USG of 27% for the last month. That's actually higher than his number on the season is. Are you forgetting that next season the Bucks are going to be adding Jabari Parker to the mix?

Either you believe Parker and/or Giannis will continue to play 2nd and 3rd fiddle to Knight (and that's what I believe happens if Knight is brought back) or you think Knight accepts the role of Mario Chalmers (I don't).

Is that a surprise? We are rolling out line ups with JOB, Gutierrez and a 37 year old Martin, Ersan is a shell, ZaZa is out, Henson is low usage.

So who is suppose to get usage? I don't think it's fair to throw that stat out in a vacuum as just about every player right now has higher usage out of necessity.

[mattg]

It needs to be mentioned that usage% is a dumb stat that doesn't accurately reflect how much a player actually has the ball. It's theoretically possible for a player to dribble 23 seconds out of every shot clock for an entire game and still have a usage of zero.

Does it really need mentioning? Did anyone not know it isn't clock usage and or use to that way?

I absolutely think so, especially if we're discussing PGs. 99% of the posters i see using the stat on this board use it in the context of 'we need less usage from our PG because going forward Giannis and Parker are going to have the ball a lot in the halfcourt offense'. Pretty standard. However it goes much deeper than that. We want Giannis and Parker having the offense run through them, and having them end up as guys who end up creating a ton of offense for our other players. If Giannis is to say create a wide open shot for Knight from 3 only BK's usage will increase even though Giannis for all intents and purposes was used to create the shot. Now apply it to Middleton as well who is primarily an off ball player(good thing), his usage is going to be much higher than the amount he actually touches the ball because he's a guy who finishes possessions with a shot(which is a good thing because he's a good shooter). Usage doesn't accurately reflect how much guys who create a lot for teammates actually have the ball just as it over inflates how many possessions a shooter is using. I think it's very relevant going forward as people try and project our lineup. I view usage as archaic and outdated as using straight FG%. Sure it tells me who is shooting and who's turning the ball over but it isn't telling me anything about how we got to that point. It tells me nothing that regular box score cannot .

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

The facts are that we are not in any type of salary hole, the facts are that Knight is absolutely a 3rd fiddle for any good team, the fact is that Knight is worth 12-14m per season (but may get only 10-11m based on market), the fact is that with Knight/Middleton/Parker/Giannis this team now looks better than they have for 25 years. Those are the facts, which also means that the last and final fact is that we have one position of weakness, that being the Center spot.

I feel that having 4 players who can legitimately score the basketball at an efficient rate is going to be a huge asset for this team moving forward, and we should be looking to fill the Center position with someone like a Ben Wallace type player, while having Henson off the bench who can give you more of a scoring presence. Finding a Center who can fulfill this role is easier to me then trying to find a PG who can give you 17 and 7 along with efficiency.

You can very easily make a case for 27/27/23/18 for Giannis/Jabari/Knight/Middleton. And fwiw, a usage of 18 for a player who is primarily a jump shooter is quite high. Expecting Middleton to be a 27% usage player seems quite a bit ridiculous if you ask me. I actually think the role we currently have Middleton in is the best role for him, both now and throughout his career. Maybe he peaks at around 21 some seasons, but I feel 18 is the sweet spot.

just look at the usage rates on the great Celtics teams. knight needs to play pg like dj did. get it down around 20 or so. I doubt anybody ribbed him at his hof induction that "only" scoring 15-16 a game was somehow diminished because he was the 3rd or 4th option on the club.

as far as center goes Henson and zaza are fine for now. our defense is elite as is.

[breakchains]

I badly want McGary. I'd "overpay" to get him now, if OKC is even willing to listen at all.

[AussieBuck]

It needs to be mentioned that usage% is a dumb stat that doesn't accurately reflect how much a player actually has the ball. It's theoretically possible for a player to dribble 23 seconds out of every shot clock for an entire game and still have a usage of zero.

Does it really need mentioning? Did anyone not know it isn't clock usage and or use to that way?

I absolutely think so, especially if we're discussing PGs. 99% of the posters i see using the stat on this board use it in the context of 'we need less usage from our PG because going forward Giannis and Parker are going to have the ball a lot in the halfcourt offense'. Pretty standard. However it goes much deeper than that. We want Giannis and Parker having the offense run through them, and having them end up as guys who end up creating a ton of offense for our other players. If Giannis is to say create a wide open shot for Knight from 3 only BK's usage will increase even though Giannis for all intents and purposes was used to create the shot. Now apply it to Middleton as well who is primarily an off ball player(good thing), his usage is going to be much higher than the amount he actually touches the ball because he's a guy who finishes possessions with a shot(which is a good thing because he's a good shooter). Usage doesn't accurately reflect how much guys who create a lot for teammates actually have the ball just as it over inflates how many possessions a shooter is using. I think it's very relevant going forward as people try and project our lineup. I view usage as archaic and outdated as using straight FG%. Sure it tells me who is shooting and who's turning the ball over but it isn't telling me anything about how we got to that point. It tells me nothing that regular box score cannot .

You're describing a scenario where Parker and Giannis are like 15 point 6 assist guys. Both guys are going to scoring and ball handling/passing and they are going to take 50+% of the load between them. Usage is fine.

[mattg]

You're describing a scenario where Parker and Giannis are like 15 point 6 assist guys. Both guys are going to scoring and ball handling/passing and they are going to take 50+% of the load between them. Usage is fine.

I just think people are putting too much emphasis on the usage Middleton and knight will take. Both guys accrue usage by shooting the ball. Plenty of ball for both those 2 and Giannis/Parker all on the court together assuming we play like we have for the last month or so.

[Rockmaninoff]

Parker for Exum?

[KqWIN]

As a Jazz fan lurking for Kanter trade buzz, I find this usage rate discussion pretty interesting. For me, usage rate is a key tool in evaluating how lineups mesh. You can't say usage rate isn't accurate because it is. The only way you can say it's inaccurate is if you're asking it to tell you something it's not made for.

[emunney]

I badly want McGary. I'd "overpay" to get him now, if OKC is even willing to listen at all.

It's too bad somebody else OKC liked wasn't there for them when their pick came up. At this point, I can't imagine what would motivate them to move a young cheap guy who fits perfectly with their all-stars.

[breakchains]

I badly want McGary. I'd "overpay" to get him now, if OKC is even willing to listen at all.

It's too bad somebody else OKC liked wasn't there for them when their pick came up. At this point, I can't imagine what would motivate them to move a young cheap guy who fits perfectly with their all-stars.

Yeah, it's just not happening unfortunately. He would have been a great fit on this team.

[breakchains]

Parker for Exum?

HELL no.

[Prince12]

I'll be really disappointed if there isn't at least some rumours to get excited about in the next 9 days.

[JayMKE]

Just don't do anything stupid, that's all I really care about. It's hard to be upset with no trades knowing how bad things can be, remember Hammond wanted to pair up Brandon and Josh Smith and Danny Ferry trolling us is the only reason it didn't happen.

[JayMKE]

Parker for Exum?

lol come on man

[SpursNBucks]

Parker for Exum?

lol come on man

ya, you got to be kidding me.

[Jez2983]

Parker for Exum?

Aussie homer, would still not consider. Maybe with several firsts thrown in.

[AussieBuck]

Parker for Exum?

Knight/Henson, clippers 1st.

[AussieBuck]

You're describing a scenario where Parker and Giannis are like 15 point 6 assist guys. Both guys are going to scoring and ball handling/passing and they are going to take 50+% of the load between them. Usage is fine.

I just think people are putting too much emphasis on the usage Middleton and knight will take. Both guys accrue usage by shooting the ball. Plenty of ball for both those 2 and Giannis/Parker all on the court together assuming we play like we have for the last month or so.

Can't see it at all with Knight.

[Prez]

Lmao at trading Jabari.

[mattg]

You're describing a scenario where Parker and Giannis are like 15 point 6 assist guys. Both guys are going to scoring and ball handling/passing and they are going to take 50+% of the load between them. Usage is fine.

I just think people are putting too much emphasis on the usage Middleton and knight will take. Both guys accrue usage by shooting the ball. Plenty of ball for both those 2 and Giannis/Parker all on the court together assuming we play like we have for the last month or so.

Can't see it at all with Knight.

All 4 guys occupy different spots of the floor and don't possess overlapping skillsets. Knight just needs to pass the damn ball on fast breaks.