PC Board OT thread

[SideshowBob]

Definitely a great idea, I think it would be informative for anybody.

[PaulieWal]

If the videos linked in the potential thread aren't on Youtube I might start a channel and upload them all there to conserve both space on my computer and make it easier for everyone else participating in the project.

If I do initiate it, then it would a few months from now because I'm pretty busy these days. April and later would be probably be around the time I would have enough time to do this.

That works best for me as well. I am busy as well these days and will be for the foreseeable future. It's still a cool idea. Now I am mad at myself for deleting those videos because we could have figured something out with YouTube. I had games from the Bulls' 91 and 96 seasons. Also, one thing is that I wouldn't upload it on YouTube and then delete it from my hard drive because they can easily be taken down by the NBA/YouTube. You gotta keep your copy.

[ceiling raiser]

I'm a bit younger than you, but in the same position. Started watching around 07, so did not see Jordan.

I've been toying with an idea and wanted to gauge interest. I don't know if its just me, but it seems whenever Jordan is talked about on this board (including the general NBA board), there is barely any discussion about his actual game. He's essentially boiled down to narrative, will, and emotion and sometimes stats. I've been here over a year, and I haven't learned a single thing about Jordan that I couldn't find on bb-ref, whereas I've learned tons about other players, even players way older than Jordan himself.

I don't know how many other posters are in the same position as me, so this is why I posed the question.

My idea was, since we had player threads for essentially every star in the league, let's create one for Jordan. We'll pool all available game footage of Jordan, and collectively watch it. Maybe a game a week or something, and do for him what we do for other players who we have created threads for. For LeBron, the thread I frequent the most, we pretty much break down his game, how he's playing that particular night, how's decision making, his shooting, energy level, etc etc. I think it will be very helpful and instructive if we were do something like that for Jordan. Maybe pick a season, perhaps 88 or 91, because those are probably his most exciting seasons, and go through each available game, track his progression through the season and actually bring him back to earth and make him a basketball player again.

There was a thread recently about which stars' basketball legacies will be forgotten 20 years from now. Jordan came to my mind (controversial I know). But a lot of people who I discuss basketball with in real life swear Jordan is the goat but haven't seen a single game of his. So maybe, Jordan's actual basketball legacy, that being his tendencies and strengths/weaknesses on the court, already is being lost.

Now this is just an idea, so feel free to let me know if you think its stupid. Or if you are interested. If there is enough interest, I'll create a thread to invite everyone to link every game of his they have access to. I won't get around to watching those games consistently until at least April, but that's probably for the better because of the top 100 project dominating the PC board (mods probably don't want two projects on at the same time) and general busyness of everyone's schedule. Playoff time would be a decent time to start with the reduced number of NBA games, or maybe summer.

Anyways, thoughts? comments?

Awesome idea (would definitely be interested...I definitely have a ton more to watch/learn/research about MJ before his first retirement), and I think you hit it out of the part with the bolded. Focussing on narratives and the like does MJ a great disservice, especially since there is so much in terms of actual basketball content available. A ton, really.

There are a lot of games available (checking ihaveplanet.com can give an idea of how readily available a game is among the community). I'm not sure what the best specific way to go about this is, but going through a full season (you mentioned 88 and 91) would surely be very rewarding, especially considering there is more than enough to get a representative sample of MJ's play from any given year.

I feel like this is an idea that could certainly get a ton of traction, and those who stick it out for the whole summer will definitely be satisfied with the time invested after the project is complete. It would be great if some of MJ's biggest fans on this board decide to contribute as well, and rewatch the games with the participants.

[MisterHibachi]

Also, one thing is that I wouldn't upload it on YouTube and then delete it from my hard drive because they can easily be taken down by the NBA/YouTube. You gotta keep your copy.

Hmm. Maybe I'll get an external hard drive. I don't want to clog up my computer with files that big.

[MisterHibachi]

Awesome idea (would definitely be interested...I definitely have a ton more to watch/learn/research about MJ before his first retirement), and I think you hit it out of the part with the bolded. Focussing on narratives and the like does MJ a great disservice, especially since there is so much in terms of actual basketball content available. A ton, really.

There are a lot of games available (checking ihaveplanet.com can give an idea of how readily available a game is among the community). I'm not sure what the best specific way to go about this is, but going through a full season (you mentioned 88 and 91) would surely be very rewarding, especially considering there is more than enough to get a representative sample of MJ's play from any given year.

I feel like this is an idea that could certainly get a ton of traction, and those who stick it out for the whole summer will definitely be satisfied with the time invested after the project is complete. It would be great if some of MJ's biggest fans on this board decide to contribute as well, and rewatch the games with the participants.

The bolded is part of my motivation for this idea. MJ is being lost as a basketball player to my generation I think, and that sucks. I bet more people think of his shoes than his fadeaway or his dunks when they think of Jordan.

[Clyde Frazier]

Question: how many people did not see Jordan live, or see enough games to understand him as a player? And by this I don't mean watching Jordan as a young kid, but rather as someone who understands basketball.

Let me rephrase: how many people understand Jordan's game? Or do not understand his game.

Not quite the answer you’re looking for, but one of my biggest regrets as a basketball fan (and if i’m being honest, in life in general) is having never gone to see jordan in person. Just wasn’t in the cards given how expensive going to a knicks bulls game was back then, and never made enough of an effort when he was with the wizards. Meanwhile, in jordan’s first few seasons, my dad used to go see him multiple times per year (I'm 30). Not even a kobe fan, but i made sure to not make the same mistake twice. Went to see him play against the nets 2 yrs ago, and got lucky to catch this live:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQOGbAVMeB4[/youtube]

Oddly enough, the few times i’ve seen lebron in person, he’s been less than spectacular. Just bad luck on my part I guess. Also, dwight is just a freak of nature up close. Ok… done with stream of consciousness.

Even though I was a kid, I do think I have a pretty good grasp on his game from around 92 til the end of his career, especially having re-watched games over the years. Reading further into the thread, I definitely like the idea, though. Would be cool to at least compare true freak athlete jordan (88) to a more seasoned jordan (91 or later).

[MisterHibachi]

Not quite the answer you’re looking for, but one of my biggest regrets as a basketball fan (and if i’m being honest, in life in general) is having never gone to see jordan in person. Just wasn’t in the cards given how expensive going to a knicks bulls game was back then, and never made enough of an effort when he was with the wizards. Meanwhile, in jordan’s first few seasons, my dad used to go see him multiple times per year (I'm 30). Not even a kobe fan, but i made sure to not make the same mistake twice. Went to see him play against the nets 2 yrs ago, and got lucky to catch this live:

I didn't want that regret, so I'm making sure to go watch LeBron this season because I can finally see a possibility where he might not be in his prime anymore. His play early in the year put a scare in me, so I had to get tickets asap. Hopefully he balls out when he comes to Toronto in March. I regret not catching Kobe. He seems like the player that's much better appreciated in person. KD and Curry are next on my list.

[PaulieWal]

Not quite the answer you’re looking for, but one of my biggest regrets as a basketball fan (and if i’m being honest, in life in general) is having never gone to see jordan in person. Just wasn’t in the cards given how expensive going to a knicks bulls game was back then, and never made enough of an effort when he was with the wizards. Meanwhile, in jordan’s first few seasons, my dad used to go see him multiple times per year (I'm 30). Not even a kobe fan, but i made sure to not make the same mistake twice. Went to see him play against the nets 2 yrs ago, and got lucky to catch this live:

I didn't want that regret, so I'm making sure to go watch LeBron this season because I can finally see a possibility where he might not be in his prime anymore. His play early in the year put a scare in me, so I had to get tickets asap. Hopefully he balls out when he comes to Toronto in March. I regret not catching Kobe. He seems like the player that's much better appreciated in person. KD and Curry are next on my list.

GOAT is next on my list. Gotta watch him soon.

I regret not being able to watch Wade and Kobe in their respective primes.

[Clyde Frazier]

I didn't want that regret, so I'm making sure to go watch LeBron this season because I can finally see a possibility where he might not be in his prime anymore. His play early in the year put a scare in me, so I had to get tickets asap. Hopefully he balls out when he comes to Toronto in March. I regret not catching Kobe. He seems like the player that's much better appreciated in person. KD and Curry are next on my list.

I actually got to see curry in the NCAA tournament against kansas (one of my friends is a duke alum and got access to tickets). Also saw him in a team USA exhibition against puerto rico (same with durant a few years back). Sorta drawing a blank on if i've seen him in a warriors uniform, which probably means I haven't. I'd also recommend seeing dirk in person if you haven't yet (I see they already played the raps this season).

[Dr Spaceman]

Spoiler:

Question: how many people did not see Jordan live, or see enough games to understand him as a player? And by this I don't mean watching Jordan as a young kid, but rather as someone who understands basketball.

Let me rephrase: how many people understand Jordan's game? Or do not understand his game.

I'm 28, don't really follow the NBA nearly as much til maybe 5-10 years ago.

I'm a bit younger than you, but in the same position. Started watching around 07, so did not see Jordan.

I've been toying with an idea and wanted to gauge interest. I don't know if its just me, but it seems whenever Jordan is talked about on this board (including the general NBA board), there is barely any discussion about his actual game. He's essentially boiled down to narrative, will, and emotion and sometimes stats. I've been here over a year, and I haven't learned a single thing about Jordan that I couldn't find on bb-ref, whereas I've learned tons about other players, even players way older than Jordan himself.

I don't know how many other posters are in the same position as me, so this is why I posed the question.

My idea was, since we had player threads for essentially every star in the league, let's create one for Jordan. We'll pool all available game footage of Jordan, and collectively watch it. Maybe a game a week or something, and do for him what we do for other players who we have created threads for. For LeBron, the thread I frequent the most, we pretty much break down his game, how he's playing that particular night, how's decision making, his shooting, energy level, etc etc. I think it will be very helpful and instructive if we were do something like that for Jordan. Maybe pick a season, perhaps 88 or 91, because those are probably his most exciting seasons, and go through each available game, track his progression through the season and actually bring him back to earth and make him a basketball player again.

There was a thread recently about which stars' basketball legacies will be forgotten 20 years from now. Jordan came to my mind (controversial I know). But a lot of people who I discuss basketball with in real life swear Jordan is the goat but haven't seen a single game of his. So maybe, Jordan's actual basketball legacy, that being his tendencies and strengths/weaknesses on the court, already is being lost.

Now this is just an idea, so feel free to let me know if you think its stupid. Or if you are interested. If there is enough interest, I'll create a thread to invite everyone to link every game of his they have access to. I won't get around to watching those games consistently until at least April, but that's probably for the better because of the top 100 project dominating the PC board (mods probably don't want two projects on at the same time) and general busyness of everyone's schedule. Playoff time would be a decent time to start with the reduced number of NBA games, or maybe summer.

Anyways, thoughts? comments?

Hibachi,

What an awesome idea. I agree with everything you said here, and while we generally have a good grasp on most post-84 players, Jordan for some reason gets lost in this cloud of mystique like you mentioned.

I am absolutely 100% interested and would be willing to contribute whatever is needed. i really like the idea of watching the games simultaneously, sort of a viewing party, so we can get to the heart of the differences of opinion as they occur. Anyway, you guys do a fantastic job with the LeBron thread, and so I'm sure this will be excellent as well.

I'd love to see projects like this for Bird, Magic, and other greats as well. Hell, this could end up being an even bigger knowledge base than the top 100.

[MisterHibachi]

Spoiler:

I'm 28, don't really follow the NBA nearly as much til maybe 5-10 years ago.

I'm a bit younger than you, but in the same position. Started watching around 07, so did not see Jordan.

I've been toying with an idea and wanted to gauge interest. I don't know if its just me, but it seems whenever Jordan is talked about on this board (including the general NBA board), there is barely any discussion about his actual game. He's essentially boiled down to narrative, will, and emotion and sometimes stats. I've been here over a year, and I haven't learned a single thing about Jordan that I couldn't find on bb-ref, whereas I've learned tons about other players, even players way older than Jordan himself.

I don't know how many other posters are in the same position as me, so this is why I posed the question.

My idea was, since we had player threads for essentially every star in the league, let's create one for Jordan. We'll pool all available game footage of Jordan, and collectively watch it. Maybe a game a week or something, and do for him what we do for other players who we have created threads for. For LeBron, the thread I frequent the most, we pretty much break down his game, how he's playing that particular night, how's decision making, his shooting, energy level, etc etc. I think it will be very helpful and instructive if we were do something like that for Jordan. Maybe pick a season, perhaps 88 or 91, because those are probably his most exciting seasons, and go through each available game, track his progression through the season and actually bring him back to earth and make him a basketball player again.

There was a thread recently about which stars' basketball legacies will be forgotten 20 years from now. Jordan came to my mind (controversial I know). But a lot of people who I discuss basketball with in real life swear Jordan is the goat but haven't seen a single game of his. So maybe, Jordan's actual basketball legacy, that being his tendencies and strengths/weaknesses on the court, already is being lost.

Now this is just an idea, so feel free to let me know if you think its stupid. Or if you are interested. If there is enough interest, I'll create a thread to invite everyone to link every game of his they have access to. I won't get around to watching those games consistently until at least April, but that's probably for the better because of the top 100 project dominating the PC board (mods probably don't want two projects on at the same time) and general busyness of everyone's schedule. Playoff time would be a decent time to start with the reduced number of NBA games, or maybe summer.

Anyways, thoughts? comments?

Hibachi,

What an awesome idea. I agree with everything you said here, and while we generally have a good grasp on most post-84 players, Jordan for some reason gets lost in this cloud of mystique like you mentioned.

I am absolutely 100% interested and would be willing to contribute whatever is needed. i really like the idea of watching the games simultaneously, sort of a viewing party, so we can get to the heart of the differences of opinion as they occur. Anyway, you guys do a fantastic job with the LeBron thread, and so I'm sure this will be excellent as well.

I'd love to see projects like this for Bird, Magic, and other greats as well. Hell, this could end up being an even bigger knowledge base than the top 100.

Thanks

Seems like this idea has generated some interest. That's good.

Question: how do you guys propose we actually watch the games? It'll obviously be chronological, and probably one game a week or something similar. Do we assign at the beginning of the week a certain game to be watched and everyone watches it when they have time, or do we organize a specific time where we can all watch it 'live', maybe through some kind of streaming to ensure everyone is watching the same thing at the same time to better generate discussion? I don't have too much experience with streaming softwares tho. I think we'll get through more games with the first method, but the second method will generate more discussion.

And organization of the discussion: the LeBron thread is just one collective stream of comments, flowing game to game. You can't actually tell which comment is for which game. Do we follow that general method, or do we do game-threads?

It would also be cool if someone with expertise in this area could dig up articles and whatnot surrounding a particular game so we can put ourselves in the time frame and view his performance through a different angle.

[ceiling raiser]

Thanks

Seems like this idea has generated some interest. That's good.

Question: how do you guys propose we actually watch the games? It'll obviously be chronological, and probably one game a week or something similar. Do we assign at the beginning of the week a certain game to be watched and everyone watches it when they have time, or do we organize a specific time where we can all watch it 'live', maybe through some kind of streaming to ensure everyone is watching the same thing at the same time to better generate discussion? I don't have too much experience with streaming softwares tho. I think we'll get through more games with the first method, but the second method will generate more discussion.

And organization of the discussion: the LeBron thread is just one collective stream of comments, flowing game to game. You can't actually tell which comment is for which game. Do we follow that general method, or do we do game-threads?

It would also be cool if someone with expertise in this area could dig up articles and whatnot surrounding a particular game so we can put ourselves in the time frame and view his performance through a different angle.

I don't have any experience with either, but from a quick search these two services might be useful if you're interested in a simultaneous streaming option:

http://www.sync-video.com/
https://www.watch2gether.com/

EDIT: As for articles and such, I think the Tribune is offering free access to its archives at the moment: http://archives.chicagotribune.com/faq/

Not sure how long it's going to last, though.

[PaulieWal]

Thanks

Seems like this idea has generated some interest. That's good.

Question: how do you guys propose we actually watch the games? It'll obviously be chronological, and probably one game a week or something similar. Do we assign at the beginning of the week a certain game to be watched and everyone watches it when they have time, or do we organize a specific time where we can all watch it 'live', maybe through some kind of streaming to ensure everyone is watching the same thing at the same time to better generate discussion? I don't have too much experience with streaming softwares tho. I think we'll get through more games with the first method, but the second method will generate more discussion.

And organization of the discussion: the LeBron thread is just one collective stream of comments, flowing game to game. You can't actually tell which comment is for which game. Do we follow that general method, or do we do game-threads?

It would also be cool if someone with expertise in this area could dig up articles and whatnot surrounding a particular game so we can put ourselves in the time frame and view his performance through a different angle.

IMO, the best way to do it would be to do it by assigning games for the week. While creating a live viewing game experience will be fun it is also a bit unrealistic given the different schedules of everyone. I assume this is something that will be done in the off-season and everyone is usually a bit busier in the summer anyway. The best thing would be to do it like a book club experience where we watch and analyze one game every few days or even 2-3 games per week if the participants can handle that.

I agree that it would have to be chronological. We can randomly pick 25 games from a season + all the playoff games. Once the games are picked we can start finding them and upload them to YouTube or share them via Dropbox if we don't want to incur the wrath of our copyright overlords lol.

[Dr Spaceman]

Thanks

Seems like this idea has generated some interest. That's good.

Question: how do you guys propose we actually watch the games? It'll obviously be chronological, and probably one game a week or something similar. Do we assign at the beginning of the week a certain game to be watched and everyone watches it when they have time, or do we organize a specific time where we can all watch it 'live', maybe through some kind of streaming to ensure everyone is watching the same thing at the same time to better generate discussion? I don't have too much experience with streaming softwares tho. I think we'll get through more games with the first method, but the second method will generate more discussion.

And organization of the discussion: the LeBron thread is just one collective stream of comments, flowing game to game. You can't actually tell which comment is for which game. Do we follow that general method, or do we do game-threads?

It would also be cool if someone with expertise in this area could dig up articles and whatnot surrounding a particular game so we can put ourselves in the time frame and view his performance through a different angle.

IMO, the best way to do it would be to do it by assigning games for the week. While creating a live viewing game experience will be fun it is also a bit unrealistic given the different schedules of everyone. I assume this is something that will be done in the off-season and everyone is usually a bit busier in the summer anyway. The best thing would be to do it like a book club experience where we watch and analyze one game every few days or even 2-3 games per week if the participants can handle that.

I agree that it would have to be chronological. We can randomly pick 25 games from a season + all the playoff games. Once the games are picked we can start finding them and upload them to YouTube or share them via Dropbox if we don't want to incur the wrath of our copyright overlords lol.

I probably agree with the book club notion. Maybe we can set a live viewing time and whoever makes it at that time can participate, but we'll also give everyone a few days to watch these games.

I know there are sites that allow you to stream your computer on the internet, maybe that would be preferable to YouTube for the live viewing. Other than that though, I agree with the Dropbox suggestion. I have over 1TB of storage I can donate to the cause. That's a LOT of games I can hold on to.

And another note, I think this is a great opportunity to fill in some of the gaps in our statistical repertoire. I would loved to compile shot charts, and since we lack play by play data for that era, maybe we can get a rudimentary tracking of on/off and possession data as well. Obviously I couldn't doo this all Myself, but if other people were willing this could go as long way as far as our knowledge base.

[MisterHibachi]

IMO, the best way to do it would be to do it by assigning games for the week. While creating a live viewing game experience will be fun it is also a bit unrealistic given the different schedules of everyone. I assume this is something that will be done in the off-season and everyone is usually a bit busier in the summer anyway. The best thing would be to do it like a book club experience where we watch and analyze one game every few days or even 2-3 games per week if the participants can handle that.

That sounds good.

I agree that it would have to be chronological. We can randomly pick 25 games from a season + all the playoff games. Once the games are picked we can start finding them and upload them to YouTube or share them via Dropbox if we don't want to incur the wrath of our copyright overlords lol.

I don't know if we should pre-pick games and then go look for them. Such a project probably wouldn't finish in the course of a summer because we're trying to watch literally every single Jordan game to get the complete picture. I think we should watch as many games as possible, even the boring mid-Jan, low-energy, there-because-I-have-to-be games.

Ideally I would want to start with his rookie season and progress through till his second retirement. I don't think there's any use in watching his Wizards years. But, maybe a single prime season, like 88 or 91, could also be a good starting point. But we would then be jumping across seasons if we continue on to watch his entire career.

And another note, I think this is a great opportunity to fill in some of the gaps in our statistical repertoire. I would loved to compile shot charts, and since we lack play by play data for that era, maybe we can get a rudimentary tracking of on/off and possession data as well. Obviously I couldn't doo this all Myself, but if other people were willing this could go as long way as far as our knowledge base.

I didn't think of this. Great idea.

By watching Jordan we can also study another all time great in Pippen.

[PaulieWal]

I don't know if we should pre-pick games and then go look for them. Such a project probably wouldn't finish in the course of a summer because we're trying to watch literally every single Jordan game to get the complete picture. I think we should watch as many games as possible, even the boring mid-Jan, low-energy, there-because-I-have-to-be games.

Ideally I would want to start with his rookie season and progress through till his second retirement. I don't think there's any use in watching his Wizards years. But, maybe a single prime season, like 88 or 91, could also be a good starting point. But we would then be jumping across seasons if we continue on to watch his entire career.

Ideally yes, I would like to watch as many games as possible but I don't think it's possible to go through that many games. Starting from his rookie season all the way to his second retirement would be a multi-year project. That's why I said we can all pick and choose the most important seasons that we want to focus on and then pick random games. We don't have to finish over the summer but it's still probably smart to do as much as possible over the off-season because once the season starts participation will decline and people won't have much time with the daily grind of their lives + following the NBA + the project with an extra game or two per week to watch and discuss. Just look at the Top 100 project and how participation in that is a small fraction of what it was during the off-season and I know it has a lot to do with the Top 20-25 being sorted out but still the point is valid.

IMO the best way to go about is select a few RS games + all the playoff games from seasons you want to focus on and even then we are looking at a long-term project. What do the other interested participants feel about this? Bondom, fpliii, Spaceman, and I am not sure who else is interested - please chime in.

Edit:

Something to consider - even if we only go through 2 games per week, you are looking at a commitment of 3-4 hours at least and over a month you are only going through 8 games which is nothing. That's why I am saying picking and choosing games is probably the best way to do this. It may not sound like much but once you get into it people will find it difficult to sustain a commitment of 4-5 hours of their time per week to watch old games.

[MisterHibachi]

I don't know if we should pre-pick games and then go look for them. Such a project probably wouldn't finish in the course of a summer because we're trying to watch literally every single Jordan game to get the complete picture. I think we should watch as many games as possible, even the boring mid-Jan, low-energy, there-because-I-have-to-be games.

Ideally I would want to start with his rookie season and progress through till his second retirement. I don't think there's any use in watching his Wizards years. But, maybe a single prime season, like 88 or 91, could also be a good starting point. But we would then be jumping across seasons if we continue on to watch his entire career.

Ideally yes, I would like to watch as many games as possible but I don't think it's possible to go through that many games. Starting from his rookie season all the way to his second retirement would be a multi-year project. That's why I said we can all pick and choose the most important seasons that we want to focus on and then pick random games. We don't have to finish over the summer but it's still probably smart to do as much as possible over the off-season because once the season starts participation will decline and people won't have much time with the daily grind of their lives + following the NBA + the project with an extra game or two per week to watch and discuss. Just look at the Top 100 project and how participation in that is a small fraction of what it was during the off-season and I know it has a lot to do with the Top 20-25 being sorted out but still the point is valid.

IMO the best way to go about is select a few RS games + all the playoff games from seasons you want to focus on and even then we are looking at a long-term project. What do the other interested participants feel about this? Bondom, fpliii, Spaceman, and I am not sure who else is interested - please chime in.

True you're right, going through all his games would take a very long time. But I think 75% of games in a single season is still a good target for a summer project. That would be 74 games for the 91 season, including the 17 playoff games. Ehh, maybe that's too much on second thought, if we want to finish it up before the next regular season starts. You're right, dammit Paulie lol

But either way, I think we should first compile the links of games and then choose the games, instead of the other way around. It'll allow us more flexibility I think. We should aim for the top 25% and the lowest 25% by game score or any other single game metric. It'll give us a clearer picture.

[john248]

Lavine put on a pretty damn good show.

[Clyde Frazier]

Lavine just didn't look human out there... unreal

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81kl8u2DBac[/youtube]

And while I doubt wes matthews could beat curry's 27, it was kinda frustrating seeing him not make the final after kyrie and thompson put up duds (he would've advanced if they took top 4).

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXGTnh-F7VU[/youtube]

[Quotatious]

Dragic in Miami...Didn't see that one coming. The fact that he wanted out of Phoenix isn't really surprising to me, he seemed to be clearly underutilized this year, with the three PG rotation, but I didn't expect the Heat to get him.

Heat probably won't have to worry about making the playoffs anymore. If Wade and Bosh will be relatively healthy for the playoffs, I can see them being a dark horse in the East. Wade, Bosh, Dragic and Deng is some pretty decent talent...

What do you think about this trade, guys?