WojOfficial: Adrien Payne to Minnesota for a 2017 1st

[C.lupus]

The way I see it, the level of player Minnesota is likely to get with a mid-to-late first rounder is about Adreian Payne. So basically Atlanta is wanting to delay the Payne as long as possible while Minnesota figures they will just endure all of their Payne this year and hopefully not have to worry about getting any more Payne in the future.

[Narf]

It's Paynefully hard to bet against Flip on this one. He's got a very good eye for talent in the draft, AND he has the inside track being friends with Izzo.

But basically this is a mid first this year being traded for at worst a mid-late 1st in a couple years, maybe a 2nd if Minnesota continues to suck

My money is on the Wolves getting a bargain price on a player Atlanta doesn't have time to develop. I'd say Young is next to go.

[HartfordWhalers]

Btw... its apparently 2 2nds:

2017 first round draft pick from Minnesota
Minnesota's 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections in 1-14 in 2017 (this protected conveyance conditional upon Minnesota conveying a 1st round pick to Boston in 2015), 1-14 in 2018, 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if Minnesota has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Atlanta by 2020, then Minnesota will instead convey its 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-Minnesota, 2/10/2015]

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/ ... s/detailed

[bondom34]

Btw... its apparently 2 2nds:

2017 first round draft pick from Minnesota
Minnesota's 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections in 1-14 in 2017 (this protected conveyance conditional upon Minnesota conveying a 1st round pick to Boston in 2015), 1-14 in 2018, 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if Minnesota has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Atlanta by 2020, then Minnesota will instead convey its 2020 2nd round pick and 2021 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-Minnesota, 2/10/2015]

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/ ... s/detailed

This makes it much better to me.

But this thread, I can tell, will be Payneful to read.

[RSCD3_]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

Not to mention

If they let Thad walk they basically gave a mid round pick by Miami away for nothing

But you can't look at the deal now and call it a failure like that. They weren't expecting Rubio and Martin to miss so many games. Probably not Pek either tho they should have by now. They clearly were trying to remain semi-competitive while bringing their many youngsters along without having to force anyone not ready into the lineup potentially hurting their confidence or the team developing bad habits.

Just because everything went wrong doesn't mean the decision was that bad. They already had plenty of talented young players/picks. Using one for a solid citizen and player like Thad Young might not have been what you would have done, but it was a reasonable decision. You can't just have a team of all kids and expect to ever break the cycle of losing. and the Wolves definitely need to break that cycle.


I really want to get a Trade Board poker game going because so many guys are so results-oriented. Sometimes a move can be the correct move and just not work out. Life has variance.

Good pint, it is easy to judge in restrospect

[nykballa2k4]

Wow. Flip's handing 1st round picks pretty liberally. First Thad and now Payne.

And meanwhile they have Bennett at pf also. It has to mean one of Thad or Bennett goes by the trade deadline, right?


And for Atlanta, they have to use the pick to bolster the wing rotation for this years miracle run, right?

IMO it could mean Pekovic on the move... Dieng/Payne as a center rotation is valid.

Obvious winner here is ATL. The know better than anyone else what they have in Payne and they chose a pick in two+ years over developing him. That shows you where his value is. Is Payne a decent prospect? maybe.. but it's a high-risk low-reward deal at this point for minn.

[Smitty731]

I'm fine with taking a flier on Payne. Minnesota isn't exactly loaded at PF. Young is probably walking at the end of the year and Bennett hasn't proven himself yet.

My problem is the cost. Payne has looked terrible this year. Both in the NBA and the D League. The Hawks aren't exactly loaded at the big man spot, behind Horford and Millsap and Payne couldn't even get on the floor. And then in the D League he didn't look great.

If Minnesota improves to be a playoff team, they will have to give up a 1st. Even a late 1st for Payne seems like an overpay. It doesn't seem like a stretch to say the Wolves should be a playoff team by 2020. If they aren't, then it is probably time to fire everyone, move the franchise and start all over.

So, the risk is fine, but I don't like the cost.

[Prospect Dong]

Depends on the protections, but if they are reasonable for the Wolves I like it for both. Payne doesn't really fit what the Hawks are doing and this gets them an asset down the road. Wolves add a guy who could be useful to them.

Lottery protected through 2020 then becomes a 2nd rounder. Not that high of a price imo.

FWIW, Flip really liked Payne in the draft and was debating between him and LaVine - now he has both. Flip is good friends with Izzo and has watched Payne play a lot. He knows what he is getting. I'm fine with the deal but I liked Payne in the draft, too.

I feel like the Hawks had an even better idea of what he'll look like in the NBA. Either party might be wrong, but it's always dangerous to second guess the team giving up on their prospect this quickly.

I don't really like it for either party. The hawks should be loading up rather than adding future assets, though of course they could flip the first for someone who can help them right now. And the value and variance aren't where the twolves should want them - hold onto the pick and they can target someone who fits a need, and with more upside, than Payne when they're actually trying to win games.

[JasonStern]

Dallas traded a first for Steve Nash when they were essentially the current Wolves. Think that worked out okay.
Clippers traded a high pick for Elton Brand when they were essentially the current Wolves. That worked out well too.
Wizards traded a high first for Jamison when they were terrible and it propelled them back to the playoffs etc..

and you consider Adreian Payne Nash/Brand/Jamison tier? bold statement. 95%+ of the people in this thread cannot spell his first name right.

[Domejandro]

I loved this dude in college, he is a really, really good player. I don't have any proof given I joined after the draft, but I was unbelievably high on him.

We should be a playoff team by 2017, and the pick should be around twenty-three or twenty-four. Given the fact that Andrew Wiggins looks phenomenal, Shabazz Muhammad has shown insane improvement, Gorgui Dieng looks like a solid starter, and Ricky Rubio is a good player, I just do not see how we could still be a lottery team by then.

I love Adriean Payne's game, and personally still believe in him. Shabazz Muhammad and Gorgui Dieng (for the most part) could not get off the bench their first season, and look at them now, they are really good. The dude is a great person, and an absolute trooper (trust me, read the whole article).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1947 ... role-model

(The first quote that I chopped up is about his relationship with a little girl who had cancer).

In some ways, Payne could see himself in Lacey. Watching her struggle reminded him of the frailties of his own childhood, of the challenges he faced after losing his mother at age 13, of the learning disability that could’ve prevented him from going to college.

[Crop to after she relapsed on cancer about a year after they became friends.]

Asleep in blue pajamas under a pink flannel blanket, she’d undergone chemotherapy that morning and surgery in the afternoon. Groggy and disoriented from anesthetics, Lacey hadn't opened her eyes for hours. Her parents, Matt and Heather, said she hadn't smiled in days.

After a few moments, Lacey rolled onto her back and opened her eyes. Sure enough, standing next to her bed was Payne, his 6’10” frame nearly stretching to the ceiling as he clutched the stuffed zebra he’d brought as a gift.

Grinning, Lacey extended her arms as Payne bent down to embrace the girl he calls his “little sis.”

(Him dealing with his plantar fasciitis).

The night before, Payne had been in tears as the Spartans prepared to take the court against Ohio State. The plantar fasciitis that had lingered for months had become so intense that he felt as if needles were piercing his ligaments and tendons.

Payne skipped pregame warm-ups and told coach Tom Izzo he didn’t think he could play. But five minutes into the game, there was Payne, checking in at the scorers’ table after a sudden surge of adrenaline. He finished with 18 points and six rebounds in an overtime victory.

Trust me, read the whole thing. I do not want to post too much as it is not my work, but the story explains his inability to read until he was sixteen due to severe learning disabilities, and how he was a special education student his freshman year, but worked hard to overcome it.

The normal routine was for Payne to attend class from 7:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. before working with tutors from 2:45 to 6. Basketball practice was at 7, meaning Payne usually didn’t arrive home until after 9 each night.

He is truly an amazing person, I really, really hope that he succeeds.

[Prospect Dong]

Thanks for the article, that's interesting. 24th pick in 2017 seems to be asking a lot. I can absolutely believe they'll be in the playoffs by then, but a top-8 record seems like a stretch.

[Takingbaconback]

Y'all gunna feel the payne

[GoBobs]

I voted for the Hawks because they know more about Payne then the T-Wolves. The value of the pick won't change much while Payne's value would continue to drop if he doesn't get minutes. It's never good to trade future picks when in a rebuilding situation. If nothing else it limits the T-Wolves ability to trade future picks.

[GopherIt!]

Flips close bud, Izzo knows more about Payne than anyone.

[GopherIt!]

that mn front is a dieng payne in the pek.

[marcush]

Its a hard one to grade at this point as I just haven't seen nearly enough of him in the pros but I just have a couple of queries with it for the wolves.

What happens if BPA in the draft is a big? If they take Towns or Porzingis, where would that leave Payne in the pecking order?

Will Flip actually play this kid and give him the minutes the borderline type prospects need? Robinson does not even see the court on a 10 win team. If they don't play him, they will kill his trade value.

Wouldn't they have been better off just increasing Bennetts minutes, stretching him out to the 3 point line and seeing what he has? They kinda look like they fill similar roles.

I maybe don't trust Atlanta a bit. Maybe the kid is no good and they are cutting bait before his 1st round gloss wears off. Sounds like something a smart FO would do.

Anyway, as I said too early for me, I liked him predraft, so if all Payne needs is playing time then its a solid move.

[stjf]

Its a hard one to grade at this point as I just haven't seen nearly enough of him in the pros but I just have a couple of queries with it for the wolves.

What happens if BPA in the draft is a big? If they take Towns or Porzingis, where would that leave Payne in the pecking order?

Will Flip actually play this kid and give him the minutes the borderline type prospects need? Robinson does not even see the court on a 10 win team. If they don't play him, they will kill his trade value.

Wouldn't they have been better off just increasing Bennetts minutes, stretching him out to the 3 point line and seeing what he has? They kinda look like they fill similar roles.

I maybe don't trust Atlanta a bit. Maybe the kid is no good and they are cutting bait before his 1st round gloss wears off. Sounds like something a smart FO would do.

Anyway, as I said too early for me, I liked him predraft, so if all Payne needs is playing time then its a solid move.

There's value in the roster spot, especially as more guys become available after getting bought out. There's nothing Payne can do that can't be done by atleast three Hawks ahead of him on the depth chart. Ray Allen might have more value than a rookie PF, to a team with title ambitions and limited playoff experience.

This also could have been a trade to appease an agent. Payne should have more opportunity to earn minutes in Minnesota. The agent also represents DeMarre Carroll, who will be an unrestricted free agent. Maybe this was about doing Payne a solid so that the agent would be more cordial during the Carroll negotiation?

[QRich3]

Dallas traded a first for Steve Nash when they were essentially the current Wolves. Think that worked out okay.
Clippers traded a high pick for Elton Brand when they were essentially the current Wolves. That worked out well too.
Wizards traded a high first for Jamison when they were terrible and it propelled them back to the playoffs etc..

So many of you being too restrictive in your thinking. A re-build doesn't always have to be dump every veteran for picks. Sometimes the right move is to trade those picks for players. Im not saying this move is all the great. It may not work out. But get out of this box.

Agree, sometimes fans are too simplistic on how to do a rebuild, it's not as easy as lose as much as you can and pile up as many picks as you can without looking at anything else. Team building is a lot more nuanced than that.

I'd add to your list of examples when the Clippers got Bledsoe for a future (top-10 protected) pick, and were criticized in a similar way the Wolves are right now. Trading a future pick when you're rebuilding for a guy who hasn't shown anything and has limited upside (that was the thinking in that moment) and blah blah blah. Well, that pick ended up being Fab Melo and it was a steal of a trade.

I haven't really seen much of Payne so it'll depend on how he ends up performing and what happens with the pick when the protections are over, but just hating on the basis of rebuilding teams trading picks is idiotic.

EDIT- just seen it turns into 2 2nds, not a bad deal from Minny unless Payne ends up not being a rotation guy.

[wildvikeswolves]

Its a hard one to grade at this point as I just haven't seen nearly enough of him in the pros but I just have a couple of queries with it for the wolves.

What happens if BPA in the draft is a big? If they take Towns or Porzingis, where would that leave Payne in the pecking order?

Will Flip actually play this kid and give him the minutes the borderline type prospects need? Robinson does not even see the court on a 10 win team. If they don't play him, they will kill his trade value.

Wouldn't they have been better off just increasing Bennetts minutes, stretching him out to the 3 point line and seeing what he has? They kinda look like they fill similar roles.

I maybe don't trust Atlanta a bit. Maybe the kid is no good and they are cutting bait before his 1st round gloss wears off. Sounds like something a smart FO would do.

Anyway, as I said too early for me, I liked him predraft, so if all Payne needs is playing time then its a solid move.

Thad and Bennett (assuming he doesn't improve) don't have a long term future here. There's also Nemanja Bjelica over in Europe and each MN reporter says Flip really wants to bring him over next year, which would make things interesting.

Towns/Payne/Bjelica
Pek/Dieng/Payne

While Payne and Bjelica are not sure things, I think it gives the Twolves flexibility in the draft to go with whoever they think is the BPA regardless of position. They really cant afford to miss on this draft pick.

[theatlfan]

that mn front is a dieng payne in the pek.

I wouldn't say that... well, maybe a Thad bit.